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Has anyone ever experienced anything like this with a horse?

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  • I'm not really wanting to question the OP about this scenario but 1) I don't know what kind of alpha you grow where you are but where I live plenty of horses get alpha and I've yet to hear any such horror stories of crazy acting horses, maybe a bit UP but not bonkers 2) rabies vaccine - ditto #2, everyone here gets rabies vaccines and so far no horses have turned into pyschopaths (20 years)

    Finally the story does seem a bit fantastic and the movie BUCK does come to mind where he tells that nutty lady horse hoarder that the crazy horse needs to have a permanent "come to Jesus" moment; if you haven't seen Buck, rent it... it will help you w/ your decision to put the filly down. Clearly you didn't have a choice; and finally there have been some mention of EHV-1 I think in some of the posts - has anything like that been discussed w/ the vet, certainly if there is any suspicion of a communicable disease then appropriate biohazard protocal needs to take place pronto w/ prompt notification to shipper and breeder.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
      You're absolutely sure you received the right filly??
      Unfortunately, yes.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
        Agree. I wonder if maybe she had some sort of tumor of something in her brain and it was causing the behavior. I know it seems unlikely, but this sounds like a freak thing. Or could she have hit her head on the trailer and have caused some sort of brain damage? Or had a stroke??

        You did the right thing. What kind of life could she have ever had ANYWHERE??
        Thank you for your support. The transporters basically said she was crazy from the beginning. I have left several messages with the transport company (US Horse Transport), because I would like to talk further with the guys who picked her up. Interesting that you mention about hitting her head on the trailer....When I called the breeder to report what had happened upon the filly's arrival, she said something along the lines of "I knew I shouldn't have sent her", but more in a "woe is me" kind of way. She said nothing about the filly hitting her head on the trailer until I mentioned that the transporters had said that the filly was crazy and that the breeders were afraid of her. The breeder then said Paraphrasing ) , "The filly was just fine until she calmly walked on the trailer and then the transport guy threw his arms up in front of her and yelled. At that point, she threw her head up and hit it on the doorway. After that is when she acted up." Keep in mind this woman never asked how the filly was doing or if she would survive. She was very defensive and said that the transporters must have done something to the filly. As I mentioned before, the two remaining horses on the trailer were quiet for the 4 hours that the transporters stayed to help. While they seemed to be concerned about liability and perhaps that drove their willingness to stay, the feeling I had was that they cared, felt very bad that they had brought me such a dangerous horse and that they just wanted to help. The transporters had been on the road for 9 days and were exhausted, yet in spite of that, they stayed to contact vets and to help repair fencing so that the other two horses would not be in danger. The owners of the transport company also came out and helped. I never held them at fault. I would have appreciated someone letting me know that the filly was acting dangerous and nuts before they completed loading her, but no one did and the transporters kept apologizing for that.
        Sorry to ramble, but in short, she did hit her head according to the breeder, but the transport guys had mentioned dangerous behavior from the beginning. I would like to know from them if the behavior worsened after she hit her head or not.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
          Are you referring to Dr. Gloria Dodd?
          I am referring to Dr. Jean Dodd. She is part of the Rabies Challenge Fund, whose goal is to have the rabies vaccine administered only every 7 years for pets.

          The rest of your post is too rude to address.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            Originally posted by Equilibrium View Post
            Many moons ago when I was first learning to gallop, we had a horse on the farm that was somewhat like this. She dumped every rider and ran in and through things. She was seen by an eye specialist and what they think was happening is that her brain didn't process what she was seeing as with normal horses. She could be ok but then she just lost it with crazy eyes as you describe. Flight was always going to take over. She was put down as she was a danger to herself and everyone else. Very well bred, but no point in continuing.

            You did the absolute right thing. Do not best yourself up.

            Terri
            Thanks Terri.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by Watermark Farm View Post
              Wow. What a tough deal for you OP. Heartache all around.

              I had a sort of similar experience. Long story short, I took on a young TB gelding who had developed severe headshaking syndrome almost immediately following a heavy round of vaccinations (not sure if there is a link, but made me wonder).

              Vet had only seen something like this once prior in career, but he felt it was probably something neuro, or brain tumor, etc. I regret we did not necropsy this horse.

              I am very sorry for your loss. You did the right --- and only --- thing.
              Thank you. What a horrible experience with the TB gelding. I am so sorry that you went through that and so sad for the gelding as well. By the way, you are a compelling writer, as I literally felt your fear and desperation when reading your post. What a nightmare for you.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Originally posted by lolita1 View Post
                I have heard of horses going through fences not as many as that but I do believe you. The other day I went out to see my horse and saw that half a metal pole a fence was down literally flat to the ground and broke into a sweat thinking nothing could survive that mess. Horse that did it had one small scrap on its leg. The section of fence down was 15 meters of buckled mess.
                So glad that the horse was ok. Just seeing the fencing and post like that is a heartstopper until you know they are all unharmed.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by Nootka View Post
                  The last time I vac. my dog 2 yrs ago he acted like he was going to die. :
                  Nootka,
                  You can always have titers done to see if your dog is still "protected". I have known three vets who attended their 25 vet school reunion. The attendees were all allowed free titer testing for rabies, as free rabies vaccinations had been available in vet school. All 3 were amazed that they and their classmates were still protected against rabies 25 years later. This was in the day of one rabies vaccine and back then it was the same vaccine they gave to horses, dogs, and cats.
                  After talking with many people who have chosen having titers checked instead of revaccinating, only one had to vaccinate her dog again, and I think it was for parvo, but not positive (might have been distemper). All the dogs did remain protected against rabies. and some of the dogs were in their teens and had not been revaccinated since they were puppies.

                  Comment


                  • Vaccinosis!

                    Someone wants to bet that's what the PMs are about?

                    What kind of holistic vet?
                    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                    Originally posted by LauraKY
                    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                    HORSING mobile training app

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
                      I've not read all the threads, but the part where the OP said the vets would not come out and recommended the humane killer - just wanted to add that in these parts there is a company that is very well respected, they come to your farm, do what they have to, remove the body and it is all done very quickly, cleanly, on time and professionally. This company got an award from Horse Council for its business of doing what has to be done when it has to be done.

                      I'd have no worries about using them, and hope the OP does not beat herself up on this issue. No fun.

                      And the breeder is a pile of crap (is there a new emoticon for this?)
                      Thanks Foxtrot. The guy who euthanized the filly does this as a business. He is 83 years old and has many years of experience. He is concerned that there will be no one to take his place when he retires (and so am I!). He was a kind man who inspired confidence, and was so good at what he did, that my friend later said to him, "When it comes my time, I hope you will shoot me" :-)

                      Comment


                      • Here's one main reason why I think something happened during shipping (maybe unknown to the shippers) that caused some severe trauma...

                        The filly didn't arrive covered in scars and all cut up, right? Which means the seller managed to contain her behind fences. If she was so insane and blindly running through fences when they had her-- she'd have some evidence of all those encounters with fences. She didn't. Which means either they had some way of managing her, which truly I cannot FATHOM... or else she just wasn't like this when she was with them.

                        I know the shippers say she was nutty from the start, but there's baby "I don't want to load, I'll be a giant pain" hard-loader behavior(which my 13 year old TB will do to this day even though he'll respect fences and is otherwise a seemingly normal horse. He's just a PITA about loading) and there's how she acted at your place. Two different things. Perhaps she was just being a resistant baby about loading, and somehow hit her head. Either during the loading or during shipping.

                        I am recalling a long time ago that I boarded with someone whose horse hit is head (while being raced but I can't remember when). He had some sort of floating bone chip near his spine. They knew about it but it wasn't causing any issues. He was fine for many years and then it moved. Apparently the pain was EXCRUCIATING and he literally LOST his mind. Vacant eyed, run through anything, danger to himself and others. I think he had to be put down.

                        I wonder if it was something like that?!
                        ~Veronica
                        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                          Sounds like a serious neurological problem-not rabies (and no, the vaccine couldn't have caused it), but something. Restricted oxygen in the womb, brain tumor, who knows, but I can't see what else you'd do with a horse like that if you don't have a teaching hospital that wants to dissect her and you don't have carnivores to feed. Too many horses in the world needing homes to spend resources on one that's determined to kill itself and doesn't care who they take with them.

                          This exactly. OP, you did the right thing, the thing the sellers should have done, most likely. The horse was a danger to life and property and there are too many nice ones out there.
                          F O.B
                          Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                          Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rescue broke View Post
                            I am referring to Dr. Jean Dodd. She is part of the Rabies Challenge Fund, whose goal is to have the rabies vaccine administered only every 7 years for pets.

                            The rest of your post is too rude to address.
                            You might try getting her name tight, then.
                            It's "Dodds".
                            Sorry I don't cloak my opinions of fluffery in hearts and flowers.
                            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                            Comment


                            • Regardless of the cause of the behavior, the OP did the right thing and shouldn't feel guilty.

                              This thread is not about rescues and the horse in question was NOT a rescue, but I think that while many (like the OP) have their hearts in the right place, there is far to much emphasis in the "rescue community" on the "save every animal" mentality and this is at the expense of animals that can be salvaged for useful purposes.
                              Please, if you are involved in rescue be rational in your approach and use a triage system, giving the most resources to the ones most likely to be made useful (and therefore to have value) to someone. I know it's sad, but sometimes if a horse (or other animal) is either dangerous, or sickly or otherwise not functional, euthanasia (by whatever means) is the best option for the farm, the herd, and the handlers.
                              F O.B
                              Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                              Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

                              Comment


                              • We had a horse once who - while at a borading barn - broke out of her stall gallopped through her fence, hit her face on the square edge of a large dog kennel and broke her nose before being found and caught - vet could only surmise that she had had a stroke. She also went blind. Had to be put down.
                                Very traumatic.
                                Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                Comment


                                • It's human nature to want to make sense of the unknown, but I doubt you will ever know with any degree of certainty what the cause truly was. You did the right thing...try to move on, and chalk this up to an aberration. At least your money was refunded...there are lots of other sane, happy, healing horses out there.

                                  I doubt vaccines or alfalfa hay had anything to do with it. FWIW, my mare is a full blooded Saddlebred, and she does just fine with both alfalfa and vaccines, including rabies. I've probably known a hundred, or close to it, other ASBs, and they've not had any difficulties, either.
                                  Caitlin
                                  *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                                  http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
                                    You might try getting her name tight, then.
                                    It's "Dodds".
                                    Sorry I don't cloak my opinions of fluffery in hearts and flowers.
                                    My mistake on not adding the "s". Been sleep-deprived this week and not at the top of my game.

                                    Your opinions are just that: opinions. They are not universal truths and even if they were, there is no excuse for being so nasty. There are many vets who believe that vaccines are causing auto-immune diseases, cancer and seizures in dogs. That is not "fluffery".
                                    If you can't act like a civilized human being, then please don't bother to comment. I counseled many victims who lived with sharp-tongued people. Please try to become more polite for the sake of those around you.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Originally posted by RedMare01 View Post
                                      It's human nature to want to make sense of the unknown, but I doubt you will ever know with any degree of certainty what the cause truly was. You did the right thing...try to move on, and chalk this up to an aberration. At least your money was refunded...there are lots of other sane, happy, healing horses out there.

                                      I doubt vaccines or alfalfa hay had anything to do with it. FWIW, my mare is a full blooded Saddlebred, and she does just fine with both alfalfa and vaccines, including rabies. I've probably known a hundred, or close to it, other ASBs, and they've not had any difficulties, either.
                                      Thanks for your post. While my money was refunded, I am $2000 in the hole due to vet bills, fencing and transport. I won't be getting another "dream horse", at least not for years but thanks for the thought :-)

                                      Interesting that you have never known a Saddlebred to react to alfalfa. Literally all of the Saddlebreds that I have known reacted to alfalfa. Not discounting your experience at all, just sharing mine. In fact, recently, the Chaffhaye dealer guaranteed me that alfalfa Chaffhaye would not affect my Saddlebred. She said the lower protein and sugar content in the fermented alfalfa makes it much "safer" to feed than regular alfalfa. I started him slowly on the chaffhaye alfalfa and after his second small feeding, he began running, screaming, sweating (cold, sunless day) and almost running through the round pen panels. He has never before exhibited that behavior in the 2 1/2 years I have had him. That was the last alfalfa chaffhaye he received and he was back to normal the next day. He is fine on the grass chaffhaye, but that will no longer be available.

                                      I certainly never thought that the rabies vaccine affected only Saddlebreds. My Saddlebred was fine when vaccinated for rabies. A Morab gelding became dangerous after getting the rabies vaccine. He would rear, spin and bolt. (Now that I write that, it is exactly what the filly was doing). This was a horse that beginners would ride. The behavior continued for several days until he received the second dose of Thuja, which is not a "magic pill" as someone wrote. Again, coincidence? As Thoreau wrote, "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk." :-)
                                      What do you do with your saddlebred mare? Glad to find another person who likes the breed.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                                        OP, I am sorry you had to deal with this.
                                        It reminded me of the story of Snowflake's filly
                                        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ness-in-Horses

                                        Same behaviour, same outcome.
                                        I was reading this thinking the same thing. She was explosive and dangerous and I got HELL for putting her down. You did the right thing OP. I fought to put my filly down, and felt and overwhelming sense of relief once she was buried on the farm. A little different in that I bred her and ultimately had the responsibility for putting her on this Earth, but I was going to ensure she didn't live a life of confusion, terror and with the constant threat to human safety. So sorry you had to have this experience but you have my respect for doing the right thing in the end.

                                        Comment


                                        • We do dressage, but nowadays, due to my schedule and her age (almost 19), she's pretty much semi-retired and spends most of her time planning world domination, rolling in mud, and bossing her two pony friends around.

                                          The lady I bought her from (14 years ago), raised ASBs and grew alfalfa hay. They all ate alfalfa and sweet feed pretty much exclusively. I personally prefer grass hay and non-sweet feed, but none of her horses, or other ASBs at the various barns I trained and boarded at back in our Saddleseat days, seemed to have any big issue with alfalfa either. These days, she gets grass hay, but I add a pound or so of alfalfa pellets to her TC Senior for extra calories and calcium.
                                          Caitlin
                                          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                                          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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