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Has anyone ever experienced anything like this with a horse?

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  • #41
    I don't think anyone on here would fault you for putting her down. Also never seen anyone get judgy-pants over using a bullet to do it.

    I would love to see a network created of people who are available to humanely destroy a horse by bullet. It would be a great resource. I would use it if I found one of my horses catastrophically injured.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

    Comment


    • #42
      You did the right thing. The filly was going to hurt people, over and over. And clearly, she had no sort of life.

      Comment


      • #43
        well, it is VERY odd that she ran THROUGH 11 fences, including a metal gate, flipped 6 times and could still walk away..........

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Originally posted by SAcres View Post
          What the fruitbat? Am I the only one who doesn't believe the OP's story? OP has 4 posts...I think someone is trolling.
          SAcres,
          Due the bizarre nature of this, I understand your skepticism.
          I truly wish that I was "trolling". Unfortunately, this is all true and I will be happy to provide phone numbers for the transport company, my vet, and a friend who was with me on Monday when the filly was shot. I normally don't do forums, because I have met with some truly vicious people in the past and between running a special needs dog sanctuary, rescuing horses, and working to pay to do this, I don't have the time or energy to be on the computer this much. However, I am taking time off right now to recover from this nightmare and was hoping to find some answers for this. If I could make things like this up, I would be writing fiction :-) No hard feelings. I understand that it sounds too freaky to be real. Certainly, I never thought this was possible. Years ago, I had a horse run through a fence when she was being chased by a dog, but she never did that again. This filly seemed to be in a "trance" and didn't even act like it was registering that she was running through fences and getting hurt. On Monday, as she calmly and steadily crashed through the fences and ran into the horse and post, her actions were more disturbing due to how calm she was. When she hit the final fence, she continued cantering at the same steady pace, even though she was almost cantering in place before the fence gave way. It looked like her "lights were on and no one was home".

          Thank you all so much who have written kind words and to those who have shared similar stories. It is helping with my guilt, "if onlys" and "what if's".

          One thing about this that is very suspicious is that this filly was listed at 15.2 hands. She was 16.1 at the withers and 16/2 at her croup due to the growing stage. Had I known she was that large, I wouldn't have gotten her as I have spinal injuries and wanted a smaller horse. One wonders why the breeders so greatly understated her height. Normally horse people seem to overestimate height, unless they are selling a large pony prospect. This filly was huge, and her size made her all the more worrisome.
          Regarding breed, she was a German Warmblood/Saddlebred cross. Her sire was Mystic Blue Eyes, who, by all accounts, has a fabulous temperament. I trained horses for many years (hence the spinal injuries :-) and worked at big warmblood farms in the northwest. However, my personal favorites to train for dressage and jumping have always been saddlebreds and saddlebred crosses.
          Saddlebreds sometimes have issues with clean changes, and I wanted a cross that wouldn't have flying change problems. The furthest I could go with my Saddlebred was 4 tempis, and this filly looked like she could end up doing flying changes every stride.
          In my experience, Saddlebreds have wonderful temperaments, but alfalfa hay can make them insane, which is why I assumed it was solely the alfalfa hay at first. I had asked the breeder to feed only grass hay before she was sent, but the breeder continued feeding mixed hay. Two months ago, I adopted out a Saddlebred cross gelding. He was so well-behaved, that unbeknownst to me, the soon-to-be-adopters were going to the barn, climbing over the fence and riding him bareback with a halter in the pasture. They had partially paid the adoption fee at that point, so obviously felt it was their right to act that way. I quickly explained that they were not allowed on the property unless I was there. They were told multiple times that the gelding could not have any alfalfa, as alfalfa generally made saddlebreds nuts. They didn't believe me, and within 4 days of taking him home, they contacted me saying, "Please help us, this horse is a lunatic. We are afraid to handle him and afraid he is going to run over us or through the fence". Turns out they were feeding him alfalfa. Within four days of stopping the alfalfa, he went back to being the same wonderful horse.

          danceronise, the rabies vaccine can make horses crazy. I personally experienced it with a Morab gelding. He went from being a totally calm horse for beginners to ride to dangerous on the ground within 24 hours of getting the rabies vaccine. He continued to be dangerous until I found a holistic vet who recommended Thuja as an antidote. The vet had seen this a number of times and wasn't at all surprised when I described the Morab's behavior. When he told me to give the Thuja, I was extremely skeptical that TINY white pills could effect a horse. However, immediately after receiving the second dose of Thuja, the "craziness" left the gelding's eyes and he dropped his head and relaxed. This wasn't psychosomatic--the gelding had no idea that he was receiving the antidote for the rabies vaccine. That experience made me a believer. My mainstream vet is still skeptical, but has heard a number of similar stories from clients.

          I was told this filly had the rabies vaccine as a yearling and asked the breeder to NOT vaccinate her again. Two days later, I received an email stating that the filly had not been vaccinated as a yearling and that she had been given the rabies vaccine that day. Because the breeder and I had talked about vaccinosis from the rabies vaccine and other vaccines, I assumed she would tell me if the filly's behavior changed. I had shared about the Morab's temperament change after the rabies vaccine and she had shared an experience with a horse who
          began violently head-shaking after her first (and only) vaccines.
          While part of me would like to believe that the breeder had no idea anything was wrong with the filly before they attempted to load her, the fact that she was out of her mind during the loading process should have been a clue that something was wrong. If I had a horse who acted totally out of character, I would have stopped the loading, contacted the buyer or adopter and waited. The breeder and I had discussed not sending horses on transports if one is not comfortable with the transporters, so I can't grasp why she would have continued desperately trying to load the filly when it was obviously such a bad situation. The only answer is that she knew there was something wrong with the filly and wanted her gone at any cost.
          Thank you all again for your insight and sharing your experiences. Thank you also for not judging or condemning me. It is helping me to process this incredibly bizarre experience and to not regret letting her go. I kept agonizing that I had taken the life of a young horse and that maybe something could have been done. After reading about similar horses, it makes me wonder if she did have a brain tumor. Her "trances" almost seemed like psychomotor seizures of some type.

          erniewalker--the story you shared about the filly is so scary and sad. I can't believe that people kept that filly alive. It isn't fair to anyone with an animal of that size. Plus, that filly didn't just appear dangerous, she was dangerous. I feel your pain.
          Derby lynn farms-The story about the TWH gelding helps as well. All of you are helping because this has been so outside my experiences, it doesn't seem real. It just seems like a matter of minutes since I was looking forward to her arrival, and I still can't believe that she is dead (and that I had to condemn her to death). Looking back, with your help, it does seem like the blame lies with her breeder/owners, who didn't want to make the tough call.
          Again, if anyone would like witnesses (including a nice woman who lives next to the pasture and saw the arrival of this filly), I will be glad to share the info. Just message me privately.
          Thanks again. It is nice to find a group of rational horse people who are not judgmental and who truly understand.
          Last edited by Rescue broke; Nov. 2, 2012, 02:06 PM.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
            well, it is VERY odd that she ran THROUGH 11 fences, including a metal gate, flipped 6 times and could still walk away..........
            Exactly. Running through 1, 2, even 3 fences I could believe, but how does a horse run through 11 fences? HOW? Also, a metal gate really? I could see a horse running into it, jumping it, or flipping over it, but just plowing right through it? I think not.

            It seems like the story is a little TOO well thought out/detailed...
            come what may

            Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

            Comment


            • #46
              Well ... maybe made up, maybe not. I'm just posting to share that a person at my barn recently euthanized a mare that was sometimes very nice and sometimes scary-dangerous. Ridiculously so. It's heartbreaking and I'm so sad for her.
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              • Original Poster

                #47
                Originally posted by AllWeatherGal View Post
                Well ... maybe made up, maybe not. I'm just posting to share that a person at my barn recently euthanized a mare that was sometimes very nice and sometimes scary-dangerous. Ridiculously so. It's heartbreaking and I'm so sad for her.
                AllWeatherGal,
                Do you mind answering questions about this mare? If you don't mind, how long did the person have her? How old was she? When did she start exhibiting scary behavior?

                I just got off the phone with the holistic vet and he said that a brain tumor was extremely unlikely in a horse that young. He had never heard of the rabies vaccine making a horse's behavior be that extreme. He did say that the encephalitis form of Rhino could do that to a horse. When I replied that the filly had been fully vaccinated all her life, he said that there is no vaccine for the encephalitis form of Rhino and that the vaccine given only protects against the snotty nose,etc. He said that locoweed and canada star thistle could also cause similar behavior, but I don't think either are in Indiana, and I don't have either here in my irrigated pasture. Obviously, she would have had to be exposed to it in Indiana because her behavior was dangerous before she left.

                Again, you can waste a lot of time debating about whether or not to believe this sadly all-too-true story, or you can contact me privately and I will be happy to share phone numbers of witnesses. The filly broke 4 6-inch think wood posts in half the day she arrived. She took out literally hundreds of feet of fencing and pulled t-posts out of the ground. She also broke a steel t-post in half. That t-post was located by a natural spring, so obviously water exposure had weakened it, but it is still incredible that she broke the steel post. The local Chaffhaye dealer brought out her tractor and auger and dug the holes for the replacement of the 6 inch wood posts. She also helped me doctor the filly with "Underwood" and baking powder. I will be happy to provide her number as well if you are still doubting this.

                I won't waste any more energy trying to prove the truth of this. Again, I understand it sounds unbelievable, but I am more than willing to provide contact info for any number of witnesses. I do ask that if you are not willing to check out the truth of this, that you stop accusing me of lying. I only wish that I were.

                Comment


                • #48
                  No flames here. I don't see the difference between a bullet and a needle. Death is death, and both (hopefully most times) are quick. So sorry you had to go through this!
                  I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

                  Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Rescue broke View Post
                    AllWeatherGal,
                    Do you mind answering questions about this mare? If you don't mind, how long did the person have her? How old was she? When did she start exhibiting scary behavior?

                    I just got off the phone with the holistic vet and he said that a brain tumor was extremely unlikely in a horse that young. He had never heard of the rabies vaccine making a horse's behavior be that extreme. He did say that the encephalitis form of Rhino could do that to a horse. When I replied that the filly had been fully vaccinated all her life, he said that there is no vaccine for the encephalitis form of Rhino and that the vaccine given only protects against the snotty nose,etc. He said that locoweed and canada star thistle could also cause similar behavior, but I don't think either are in Indiana, and I don't have either here in my irrigated pasture. Obviously, she would have had to be exposed to it in Indiana because her behavior was dangerous before she left.

                    Again, you can waste a lot of time debating about whether or not to believe this sadly all-too-true story, or you can contact me privately and I will be happy to share phone numbers of witnesses. The filly broke 4 6-inch think wood posts in half the day she arrived. She took out literally hundreds of feet of fencing and pulled t-posts out of the ground. She also broke a steel t-post in half. That t-post was located by a natural spring, so obviously water exposure had weakened it, but it is still incredible that she broke the steel post. The local Chaffhaye dealer brought out her tractor and auger and dug the holes for the replacement of the 6 inch wood posts. She also helped me doctor the filly with "Underwood" and baking powder. I will be happy to provide her number as well if you are still doubting this.

                    I won't waste any more energy trying to prove the truth of this. Again, I understand it sounds unbelievable, but I am more than willing to provide contact info for any number of witnesses. I do ask that if you are not willing to check out the truth of this, that you stop accusing me of lying. I only wish that I were.
                    Well, it took me all of 5 seconds to find the cached version of the filly's ad online. Her picture certainly made her look taller than 15.2hh, and she looks quiet & her eye is relaxed (but not drugged-looking) in the photo - was it in fact the same horse as in the pic?
                    The person holding her looks small, there's no shank over her nose, she looks sweet & relaxed but alert (so again - not drugged). But then again, you said you had 2 weeks of relative normalcy with her, so maybe the picture was snapped on a "good" day...

                    Did you get video of her being handled & led around or worked in any way before buying her?

                    Your story struck a chord with me since I breed Saddlebreds to WBs specifically for their incredible temperaments too, so I know what you were expecting and how devastated/shocked you must be.
                    Something went terribly, terribly wrong in this filly's head - don't blame yourself. Very sorry you had to go through this horrible ordeal.
                    Last edited by ASBJumper; Nov. 2, 2012, 03:16 PM.
                    www.jlsporthorsesales.net

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I'm so sorry, but really OP I don't think you had any other options. I too would have loved to see a necropsy.
                      Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                      Incredible Invisible

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                        well, it is VERY odd that she ran THROUGH 11 fences, including a metal gate, flipped 6 times and could still walk away..........
                        I also wondered what kind of set up had 11 fences for a horse to go thru, but heck, what do I know.

                        Since I have known a few horses that were not quite right, some locoed, some with viral encephalitis of different kinds and some who knows why, that is what I addressed here, not if parts of the story were a bit hard to understand as told.

                        Whatever happened, it was terrible and a learning experience for those not familiar with such dangerous and sad situations.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          FWIW, I was at a breeder's show once and watched a small weanling lose its mind, tear away from its handler and bolt blindly away from its mother in the direction of the paddocks, went through at least 4 fences (or perhaps i should say went through "fencing" at least 4 times), flipped over (somersaulted) twice, and trotted away perfectly sound & unscathed. It was terrifying and harrowing to watch, there was lots of frantic screaming and a couple of people running around after it... awful thing to see. But, the point is, baby was miraculously fine. I couldn't believe it.

                          Also, FWIW, both my Saddlebred broodmares were on pure alfalfa hay in the latter portion of their pregnancies and there was not one iota of change in their attitude, energy or temperament because of it.

                          So, perhaps alfalfa is somehow different down south and does weird things to horses sometimes, but it does nothing for my horses - who are all either full or half Saddlebred. It's a great source of calories, protein & calcium, and while it can certainly make SOME horses hotter, the idea of it affecting a specific "breed" of horse differently is a bit out there, honestly......
                          Last edited by ASBJumper; Nov. 2, 2012, 03:37 PM.
                          www.jlsporthorsesales.net

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            To me, it sounds like this filly was basically feral with no handling, compounded with some strange brain affliction.
                            OP you did the right thing, and ignore the naysayers who constantly call "troll". I believe you, as I have experienced almost the same thing:
                            I boarded, until not too long ago, at a barn that occasionally took in rescues/seizures. One young mare came in, calm, sweet, mild tempered. Two days later she attacked the BO while she was attempting to halter her to turn her out. The BO was able to get out of the stall without injury, but the mare's temperament steadily declined from there until she had to remain stalled and all feed, water, etc placed through the bars so we wouldn't be maimed by this creature. We gave her 2 months to settle in and other benefits of the doubt, but she was unsalvageable, and so euthanised. This was with a VERY experienced veterinarian and handlers. It was awful, but necessary to prevent potential adopters (who you just KNOW would be inexperienced) from becoming injured, or worse. She was sedated to be put on the trailer for the euthanasia, to be taken directly afterward for disposal, and during the euthanasia process she nearly tore the trailer apart trying to attack the attending vet, and needed 3 doses of Euthanol to complete the deed. The worst thing was, this mare could try to destroy you with either a devil-horse expression or the sweetest look on her face, so you didn't know when the attack was coming.
                            Again, you did the best for your horse, and you did the best thing, so don't let anybody tell you differently. HUGS!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Rescue broke ...

                              I don't know a lot. The gal just came to the barn a short time before I went on hiatus. The mare was a gorgeous mover. The gal purchased her when she lived overseas and had her at least three years, I would guess. She was in the eight-to-eleven range and began exhibiting scary behavior not too long after the purchase. They are pretty confident the seller knew about the horse's behavioral issue and chose the cowardly path.

                              The behavior was attributed to bad management, but nothing improve it. Her trainer, who is extremely good with difficult horses and this gal exhausted ALL possibilities and spared no expense in the efforts to fix the broken mind.

                              I'm not sure why they didn't have a necropsy done after all that, but they didn't.
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                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                Originally posted by ASBJumper View Post
                                But then again, you said you had 2 weeks of relative normalcy with her, so maybe the picture was snapped on a "good" day...

                                Did you get video of her being handled & led around or worked in any way before buying her?
                                Hi ASBJumper,
                                So neat that you breed WB/SB crosses! It is certainly my dream cross, and I know this filly's behavior was not typical. Regarding video of her being handled or worked, there is only video of her loose in a small enclosed indoor arena.It is available on youtube (or was-I haven't looked for it recently) If fact, I had asked the owners to send footage of her walking, but they never did. I also asked them to get footage of her cantering OUTSIDE, because the first videos sent were very short and basically all trotting footage. In one of the short videos, she does a couple of canter strides before breaking into a trot. That is why I then asked the owners for canter footage outside in a larger area so that I could really get an idea of her canter. A few days later, they sent more video of her in the same enclosed indoor but it was canter footage. I didn't think to wonder if there was a reason they didn't take her outside as asked. I was told this filly had been pastured a lot, but her feet were incredibly narrow. They looked like the hooves of a horse who had been shod since a weanling, or kept only in a stall, but she had never worn shoes. Her hooves looked quite different in person compared to the photos you saw. It was the same horse. Her coloring was dappled and slightly lighter when she arrived, but her winter coat was coming in.

                                Bluey, the place I rent has 5 pastures. The filly kept circling and so went through some fences multiple times. The correct way to describe it would be "She went through fencing 11 times". She didn't go through the same area twice, but would run through the same fence line further down. She didn't actually go "Through" the aluminum gate, but hit it so hard that it broke the adjoining 6 inch wood post and the gate went down. She sort of tried to jump it, but hit it full on instead and the gate fell like a tree with the post. Sorry if that wasn't clear. It is incredible that she wasn't mortally wounded that first day. In light of what happened, it would have been better if she had been.

                                The transporters kept saying, "Let her kill herself", don't try to catch her". Each time she hit a fence, the neighbor and I thought it would be the fence to kill her. The final flip left her upside-down with her hind hooves trapped in the 4 inch square sections. The transporters yelled, "Don't try to free her, just let her die. She will kill you". She was very calm and cooperative when I freed her hind feet and then got up calmly. She would walk forward relatively sanely on the outside of the fence, but refused to walk forward through the opening we made. That was what was so freaky about her is that she could appear so calm and rational and then suddenly be out of her mind, then calm and rational again. Ok, the morning she arrived, there was no calm or rational--she truly looked insane, but after getting caught, she was controllable and not frightening like she was from the moment she got off the trailer. Even in the trailer, she looked like a lunatic, as the transporters opened the head door so that I could see how crazy her eyes were. They stopped every few hours and said she had seemed insane every time they checked on her.

                                It is so bizarre and confusing--that is why I am desperately trying to make sense of it.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I don't know if you are ever going to be able to make sense of it. Some things just can't truly be understood. Crazy filly and you did everything you could for her, including at the end. Hugs.
                                  What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Hang in there

                                    So sorry for BOTH of you.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      OP, why didn't you get a necropsy done? If something like that happened with one of my horses, I would want to KNOW why!
                                      "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        No necropsy because horse was shot in the head. Humanely. No vet would come out and horse was mortally injured.
                                        What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          The only place I can find fault is that you didn't do it sooner. I know, 20/20.

                                          Did you have a health cert done? I'm assuming you did. I wonder if you can't call the vet that did it and find out how the filly behaved. You know that the transporters didn't do anything but you would have someone else that saw the filly while still with the breeders who could tell you how she was.

                                          Have you notified the breeders the filly has been put down? I would be really tempted to be pretty graphic in describing the injury and how she was put down and tell them they should have euthanized her themselves instead of passing on their problem to someone else.

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