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CA and Mexico slaughter houses no longer accepting U.S. horses?!

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
    I have come up with alternatives including hay banks and established many of them. And you have done???????

    I have ALWAYS STATED Slaughter AS AN OPTION

    But then, as an animal RIGHTS person who believes horses should be called companion animals so they can not be eaten...you already know that...but you keep telling the same lies over and over and over just hoping they will stick.
    How is a hay bank an alternative for unwanted horses? And exactly how many have you established and where are they?

    I have posted many times about euthanasia clinics, as well as the plan drawn up by Vets at UC Davis.

    NONE of my posts have ever been AR related, despite your repeated claims. Please show me even one post where I wrote horses should be called companion animals so they can not be eaten.

    "Telling the same lies over and over"? Again, please reference something specifically I have lied about. You have a lot of nerve coming to this forum and posting false claims without the ability to back them up.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

    Comment


    • Originally posted by vickitobin View Post
      Differences aside on horse slaughter, don't you think we should all work together with the focus on the horses stuck in the pipeline?

      We (collective we) are currently getting counts from across the country and once we have that, we can move forward to give these horses a second chance.
      The horses "stuck in the pipeline" all have owners (KB/Dealers/feedlot owners). Why is it everyone else's problem to bail them out of a business decision they made? If they want to GIVE the horses away, then I could see some rescues helping them do that, but I don't think they should be getting money or anything to care for or buy horses in their possession. Maybe they can ask Sue Wallis, et al to help pay for their business decision. And I think people (pro slaughter side especially) should make sure that they stay aware of any KB/dealers/feedlots that dump animals or neglect them, and stay on top of AC/police to prosecute the people that do that to the full extent of the law.
      I haven't seen dealers giving away their horses. So they must not be too worried or overwhelmed.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
        Stockland has just become aware of a possible situation regarding horse exports [as of 10/12/12]. We have reached out to numerous experts and traders in the business and as a result and due to the uncertainty surrounding the information we have so far [b] we have decided to cancel the horse sale

        It is ALL BASED ON RUMOUR...
        It's not. Your emphasis is all wrong [biased]. Try this:

        Stockland has just become aware of a possible situation regarding horse exports [as of 10/12/12]. We have reached out to numerous experts and traders in the business and as a result and due to the uncertainty surrounding the information we have so far we have decided to cancel the horse sale

        They [Stockland] did not take the information they first heard as gospel, they [Stockland] contacted NUMEROUS experts and traders they [Stockland] know in the business

        Do you seriously think that either the numerous experts and traders in the business that they know and contacted are in on the rouse... or that they [Stockland] would cancel their sale if they thought it was a rouse or not likely true in light of the consignment money they probably stood to lose?

        As for your question of where all the horses in the pipeline presently came from [if the sales stopped, how did these guys buy them].... well that shows that either you don't know much about this business or are being selectively obtuse.
        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

        http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

        Comment


        • I find it hard to believe that KB and auction house owners were caught genuinely by surprise. After all, they work on a small-profit-per-head basis. It's their business to monitor supply and demand closely.

          I suspect that is was far more profitable to take a "wait and see" approach with respect to when the EU would finally insist on something expensive in the way of enforcing the rules about trying to exclude horses with unknown drug histories from arriving on their plate.

          Too many times I see otherwise smart, capable adults doing this. They see what's coming, don't like any of the solutions and therefore wait to be bailed out, feigning ignorance.
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jenm View Post
            You have a lot of nerve coming to this forum and posting false claims without the ability to back them up.
            That's how Fairfax rolls...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
              The horses "stuck in the pipeline" all have owners (KB/Dealers/feedlot owners). Why is it everyone else's problem to bail them out of a business decision they made? If they want to GIVE the horses away, then I could see some rescues helping them do that, but I don't think they should be getting money or anything to care for or buy horses in their possession. Maybe they can ask Sue Wallis, et al to help pay for their business decision. And I think people (pro slaughter side especially) should make sure that they stay aware of any KB/dealers/feedlots that dump animals or neglect them, and stay on top of AC/police to prosecute the people that do that to the full extent of the law.
              I haven't seen dealers giving away their horses. So they must not be too worried or overwhelmed.
              And quite frankly, they have no-one but themselves to blame if this situation arose from falsified EID's, buted horses being sent to the plants, etc, etc.

              If HSUS wants to open their deep pockets and throw monies at the KB's/traders et al, so be it.
              They will eventually try to take credit for this turn of events anyways.

              In the meantime 'us' little advocates can support local situations that are certainly going to pop up.

              'Us' boots on the ground can monitor the lots in which these horses may be stuck and alert the authorities if "their owners" are not providing what is required by law.
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mvp View Post
                Dude! This ain't the worst crisis in human history... nor is Europe never at the center of those (for most of us in Western Culture).... Bubonic Plague, Cholera outbreaks and whatnot. For better and for worse, Western Europe is always in the center of things.

                Back OT.




                Well.... you can't have it both ways, saying "No one has asked for money" and then "fundraising will start sooner or later" and also, "at least this guy is keeping a set of books about it because it's a scammer's wetdream." But then, "can't we focus on the horses in the pipeline"?

                That's exactly the logic that AC4H and others in bed with KBs have used: "Can't fix the large problem... can fix if for one star fish....and yes, sometimes we need to co-mingle funds and interests with (ourselves) and KB's."

                I don't know or care whether or not you are a scammer. Truly. I give you the benefit of the doubt. But it does chap my hide when people aren't consistent in their logic or argument while imploring me to part with some money.
                Nobody has asked you or anyone else for money. Since you want to be logical, doesn't logic dictacte when there will be a rescue (of sorts) of this magnatude there will have be fundriasing? With the shortage of hay, do you think the growers will donate whatever is needed? Do you think the KBs or auctions are going to turn over the horses without at least paying for the paperwork? We were only trying to get the word out to watch for scammers and suggested using someone that establishes an escrow or uses an accountant to manage the funds. That's all. People are contacting suppliers and volunteers. If you don't want to help out, that's fine but don't discredit those that are trying to help by painting everyone with the same brush.

                No matter what anyone does, the pro slaughter find fault. Who on the pro slaughter side is stepping up? All we have seen thus far is the duo trying to rush opening plants in the US which in itself, is comical. If the EU doesn't want the meat, it doesn't matter where the horses are killed. Their first clue this was coming was when Canada stopped accepting TBs. The EU has been warning of this since 2008. I think John said it best in this quote from an interview for an article that came out yesterday.

                "We all knew this was coming and have warned of it for years, yet the suddenness caught all by complete surprise. The EID (Equine Information Document) was the last chance for the horse slaughter industry and its agents to show they could be trusted to assure the safety of the horse meat that is their stock and trade. But their long history of flaunting environmental, transport, humane and other regulations made it inevitable that they would treat the drug residue issue as a joke. True to form, they are already blaming "animal rights" radicals."

                Comment


                • From the AC4H Broker Horses Facebook page, it appears AC4H believes they will simply get passports for the horses and reship?:


                  M H There is no harms way at the moment borders are closed to us horses. They r no longer taking us horses for slaughter.
                  Friday at 10:59pm via mobile · Like

                  AC4H Broker Horses Borders are not closed the plants are closed. Temporarily. I was told by three different reliable sources. whats going to happen to these horses if they stay there? They wont its temporary. People are saying it is permanent..
                  Friday at 11:08pm · Like

                  AC4H Broker Horses We have to get these horses out while we have a break.
                  Friday at 11:09pm · Like

                  AC4H Broker Horses What happens when these plants re-open? They are getting passports together and there are new regulations i believe ..
                  Friday at 11:11pm · Like

                  AC4H Broker Horses They said it was temporary as far as we know it is temporary.
                  Friday at 11:13pm · Like


                  They are getting passports together?
                  What does that even mean? You can not just MAKE passports... and you can not, on a Sunday, get a passport for a horse that will satisfy the EU requirement that a passport documents all drugs the horse has received for it's entire life since you can not possibly know those horses entire life histories and their drug ingest for that life... well unless you're falsifying one, I guess.
                  Last edited by Angela Freda; Oct. 14, 2012, 03:45 PM.
                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by vickitobin View Post
                    Nobody has asked you or anyone else for money. Since you want to be logical, doesn't logic dictacte when there will be a rescue (of sorts) of this magnatude there will have be fundriasing? With the shortage of hay, do you think the growers will donate whatever is needed? Do you think the KBs or auctions are going to turn over the horses without at least paying for the paperwork? We were only trying to get the word out to watch for scammers and suggested using someone that establishes an escrow or uses an accountant to manage the funds. That's all. People are contacting suppliers and volunteers. If you don't want to help out, that's fine but don't discredit those that are trying to help by painting everyone with the same brush.

                    No matter what anyone does, the pro slaughter find fault. Who on the pro slaughter side is stepping up? All we have seen thus far is the duo trying to rush opening plants in the US which in itself, is comical. If the EU doesn't want the meat, it doesn't matter where the horses are killed. Their first clue this was coming was when Canada stopped accepting TBs. The EU has been warning of this since 2008. I think John said it best in this quote from an interview for an article that came out yesterday.

                    "We all knew this was coming and have warned of it for years, yet the suddenness caught all by complete surprise. The EID (Equine Information Document) was the last chance for the horse slaughter industry and its agents to show they could be trusted to assure the safety of the horse meat that is their stock and trade. But their long history of flaunting environmental, transport, humane and other regulations made it inevitable that they would treat the drug residue issue as a joke. True to form, they are already blaming "animal rights" radicals."
                    You shouldn't have to pay one cent for horses that the KB/dealers/Feedlot owners need to be rid of if they can't care for them. Any donations should go to care of horses that you are GIVEN. If the KB/owners don't want to GIVE them to the rescues, then the KB/owners should be forced to care for them/place/sell them themselves.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Abercrombie View Post
                      That's how Fairfax rolls...
                      Originally posted by Abercrombie View Post
                      Watching Fairfax meltdown... <munching popcorn - anybody like some?>

                      Note all the CAPS for added EMPHASIS --
                      (just so you all know he's *really* serious this time.)
                      Originally posted by Abercrombie View Post
                      Dear Bluey;

                      Fairfax has to carry an extinguisher with him everywhere he goes to put out his pants that spontaneously burst into flames pretty much every time he opens his mouth.
                      Originally posted by Abercrombie View Post
                      There, there. Don't be so hard on yourself ...
                      Originally posted by Abercrombie View Post
                      Ironic considering the source of this comment. Pot black much?
                      Several pages worth in this thread and THIS is all you have contributed to it, picking on others, especially Fairfax, that calmly has been ignoring your jibs.

                      If you realize it or not, that reflects on you and in a bad light more than on those you are picking on.
                      Not only that, it is against the rules to routinely stalk and pick on any one poster.

                      If you have something to say, do so civilly and making some sense, not just jumping on other posters for fun and games.

                      Just thought I mention this, in case you had not noticed it.

                      No one here really knows enough to say what is going on.
                      Until there is more news either way, all this is idle talk, nothing more or less.

                      I wonder, why do everyone wants to donate when they are made to believe there is a crisis, but the every day crisis is never important?

                      Why would our rescue lady bring 200+ dogs from the hurricane disaster here, have them all placed in two weeks but six that were too sick to move, but no one wanted, once those dogs were placed, take other dogs in our shelter, because they were not from the hurricane rescue?

                      Guess there is no bragging rights to helping, unless it is some good story behind the animal, for them to feel like rescuing it.
                      People are odd, are they.

                      Comment


                      • I'm sorry for being thick but I am having a hard time following this thread. What does this news about the EU actually mean? Is this the end of the meat buyers? Will the numbers of horses at auction drop off precipitously? Where will those horses go?
                        My blog: Crackerdog Farm

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Crackerdog View Post
                          I'm sorry for being thick but I am having a hard time following this thread. What does this news about the EU actually mean? Is this the end of the meat buyers? Will the numbers of horses at auction drop off precipitously? Where will those horses go?
                          If permanent, horses at auctions will go to non slaughter buyers.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            Several pages worth in this thread and THIS is all you have contributed to it, picking on others, especially Fairfax, that calmly has been ignoring your jibs.

                            If you realize it or not, that reflects on you and in a bad light more than on those you are picking on.
                            Not only that, it is against the rules to routinely stalk and pick on any one poster.

                            If you have something to say, do so civilly and making some sense, not just jumping on other posters for fun and games.

                            Just thought I mention this, in case you had not noticed it.

                            No one here really knows enough to say what is going on.
                            Until there is more news either way, all this is idle talk, nothing more or less.
                            All one has to do is go look at numerous other threads where Fairfax has spewed forth negative comments about Abercrombie to know those quotes in this thread are quite justified.

                            As for posting "civilly" you might want to ask your buddy Fairfax why he has a problem with civility. He has been completely disrespectful to me on numerous threads with no justification.

                            And yes, until further news is available, this is idle talk, however, it would be a great practice drill should the situation be true.

                            Since we are all horse lovers of varying degrees, I would think at the very least if slaughter were not an option even temporarily, that people would come together to help the horses. I know there is already discussion going on with groups in Oregon who are planning euthanasia clinics for December.

                            There is such a thing as being proactive.

                            Perhaps Fairfax will share where the "numerous hay banks he has established" are so that we can spread the word and help people who are concerned about not being able to feed their horses.
                            Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jenm View Post
                              All one has to do is go look at numerous other threads where Fairfax has spewed forth negative comments about Abercrombie to know those quotes in this thread are quite justified.

                              As for posting "civilly" you might want to ask your buddy Fairfax why he has a problem with civility. He has been completely disrespectful to me on numerous threads with no justification.

                              And yes, until further news is available, this is idle talk, however, it would be a great practice drill should the situation be true.

                              Since we are all horse lovers of varying degrees, I would think at the very least if slaughter were not an option even temporarily, that people would come together to help the horses. I know there is already discussion going on with groups in Oregon who are planning euthanasia clinics for December.

                              There is such a thing as being proactive.

                              Perhaps Fairfax will share where the "numerous hay banks he has established" are so that we can spread the word and help people who are concerned about not being able to feed their horses.
                              I have not seen any of Fairfax posts, one after the other, the only ones in a whole long thread as here, be one liners picking on anyone without any other to the post but personal attacks, as in my examples.

                              As I said before, follow animal rights extremists agendas and we will end with horses where dogs and cats are today, killing them wantonly and discarding them as trash in landfills.
                              And you think that is something to be so happy about?
                              Sometimes, it is hard to be right.

                              Comment


                              • Received an email from Holland. There has been NO announcement of a ban of equine products released to Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium NOR FRANCE. Maybe tomorrow?

                                The lady who emailed me, who owns Arabians, and reads COTH says the same thing....there is something else going on here.


                                The times, dates and numbers don't add up.

                                The problem for the RARA's is they claim that only 9-10 thousand horses are slaughtered . When the FACTS ..the numbers given by government import, brokerage houses and the plants themselves clearly show about 30,000 AMERICAN HORSES come to Canada...and I do not now how many go to Mexico.. but I suspect the same, then they say we are lying.

                                Then, individuals like Jenm state I don't care...not much I can do about the number of horses in the states..The RIGHT to send a horse to slaughter is what I believe needs to be guaranteed. Death of any type is abuse...even if it is natural...so I do not buy the ongoing story that ALL slaughter horses are abused. Most professing that have never been to a plant in the U.S.
                                The Elephant in the room

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by jenm View Post
                                  All one has to do is go look at numerous other threads where Fairfax has spewed forth negative comments about Abercrombie to know those quotes in this thread are quite justified.

                                  As for posting "civilly" you might want to ask your buddy Fairfax why he has a problem with civility. He has been completely disrespectful to me on numerous threads with no justification.

                                  And yes, until further news is available, this is idle talk, however, it would be a great practice drill should the situation be true.

                                  Since we are all horse lovers of varying degrees, I would think at the very least if slaughter were not an option even temporarily, that people would come together to help the horses. I know there is already discussion going on with groups in Oregon who are planning euthanasia clinics for December.

                                  There is such a thing as being proactive.

                                  Perhaps Fairfax will share where the "numerous hay banks he has established" are so that we can spread the word and help people who are concerned about not being able to feed their horses.
                                  To add some levity:

                                  This old kiddie song keeps playing in my head - "Bluey and Fairfax, sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g"

                                  Sorry, I just keep thinking "love connection"! Except that Bluey is much, much nicer than Fairfax. So not sure it would work.

                                  Silliness over, carry on.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                    The times, dates and numbers don't add up.

                                    The problem for the RARA's is they claim that only 9-10 thousand horses are slaughtered . When the FACTS ..the numbers given by government import, brokerage houses and the plants themselves clearly show about 30,000 AMERICAN HORSES come to Canada...and I do not now how many go to Mexico.. but I suspect the same, then they say we are lying.

                                    Then, individuals like Jenm state I don't care...not much I can do about the number of horses in the states..The RIGHT to send a horse to slaughter is what I believe needs to be guaranteed. Death of any type is abuse...even if it is natural...so I do not buy the ongoing story that ALL slaughter horses are abused. Most professing that have never been to a plant in the U.S.
                                    Can you link one thing, where anyone anti slaughter or anyone that is an RARA has said that only 9-10,000 horses are slaughtered each yr? I have been researching horse slaughter for about 15 yrs and have never seen that anywhere.
                                    And most people don't believe death of any type is abuse. Heck most people don't even think death by gunshot or captive bolt gun followed by exsanguination is abuse. Most anti slaughter for human consumption people feel that the process starting with auction/transport/feedlot/sh is too abusive and neglectful, and fraught with fraud/deception. They have no problem with people having a vet euth a horse, or a knowledgeable person kill one humanely with a gun.

                                    Comment


                                    • Fairfax, is this good enough for you from Canada? It's posted on the weasel's website. This is the same info ol' Suey issued yesterday. Be sure to check out the "Wallis math". 48,000 horses in the next 3 months. That's 192k annualized. Slaughter counts have been steady at approx 120k. Let's really embellish and push the Mickey Mouse traceability system. Sue still thinks she can use a blood test to dectect bute.

                                      Notice, nothing about helping the horses, just killing them.

                                      Still think it's all rumor?

                                      http://www.horsewelfare.ca/component...orse-suffering

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Crackerdog View Post
                                        I'm sorry for being thick but I am having a hard time following this thread. What does this news about the EU actually mean? Is this the end of the meat buyers? Will the numbers of horses at auction drop off precipitously? Where will those horses go?
                                        One thing many people are concerned about if the medication tracking rules are now fully enforced -

                                        Many people have been dealing with horses they can't / don't want to take further responsability for by taking them to auctions. The kill buyers were the buyer of last resort who would buy horses no one else wanted. Now that the kill buyers would not be purchasing untrained, lame/ aged, "I'm out of hay and have to sell this horse quick" skinny horses, those horses now would far more often be 'no saled'.

                                        So far people who wanted or NEEDED to be out from under a horse quick will suddenly find they paid trailering and auction fees and still have a horse. The fear is that they will have no humane alternative when the horse no sales - and horses will be turned loose, left to starve in a back pasture, owner can't afford barbituate euth and body removal in areas with burial restrictions, etc, etc. If this is a permanent change like it should be if the EU is serious about its rules, then the US needs to come up with an alternative 'last resort' or we will see a much bigger abandon/neglect problem than what we've had to this point.

                                        No need for RARAs, Illumanati, or other conspirators for that scenario. It's a purely logistical question of how to ensure that horse owners who got into a mess and can't afford several hundred dollars to get out of it, or who simply won't pay several hundred dollars to get out of it, have an option where the horses don't suffer beyond what the sum total of society is willing to accept. ie the pressure is really on to come up with an alternative.
                                        Last edited by HorsesinHaiti; Oct. 14, 2012, 04:42 PM. Reason: clarity
                                        HAS provides hospital care to 340,000 people in Haiti's Artibonite Valley 24/7/365/earthquake/cholera/whatever.
                                        www.hashaiti.org blog:http://hashaiti.org/blog

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by vickitobin View Post

                                          No matter what anyone does, the pro slaughter find fault. Who on the pro slaughter side is stepping up?

                                          But their long history of flaunting environmental, transport, humane and other regulations made it inevitable that they would treat the drug residue issue as a joke. True to form, they are already blaming "animal rights" radicals."
                                          That's just it. The pro folks don't want to step up, because that would be inconvenient. Slaughter is the perfect solution and requires no effort. And yes, those of us who believe in alternatives are RARAs. It's all black and white to the pro side.

                                          Originally posted by vickitobin View Post
                                          Fairfax, is this good enough for you from Canada? It's posted on the weasel's website. This is the same info ol' Suey issued yesterday. Be sure to check out the "Wallis math". 48,000 horses in the next 3 months. That's 192k annualized. Slaughter counts have been steady at approx 120k. Let's really embellish and push the Mickey Mouse traceability system. Sue still thinks she can use a blood test to dectect bute.

                                          Notice, nothing about helping the horses, just killing them.

                                          Still think it's all rumor?
                                          Vicki, don't forget, Fairfax "received an email from Holland"...



                                          Originally posted by Mara View Post
                                          To add some levity:

                                          This old kiddie song keeps playing in my head - "Bluey and Fairfax, sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g"

                                          Sorry, I just keep thinking "love connection"! Except that Bluey is much, much nicer than Fairfax. So not sure it would work.

                                          Silliness over, carry on.
                                          You do realize they hang out in Bluey's basement with all of her livestock, right?
                                          Last edited by jenm; Oct. 14, 2012, 04:43 PM. Reason: added quote
                                          Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                          http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                          http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

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