• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Jimmy Williams - under rated genius

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jimmy Williams - under rated genius

    I've seen his name mentioned in threads off and on, but couldn't find one devoted solely to him.

    We talk alot about superstar trainers, yet JW is never mentioned in the same breath as GM or Klimpke. Why not? He was a supurb horseman and he trained many, many winning horses (cutting, hunters and jumping) as well as creating some of the top US riders.

    Yeah he was a west coaster and a cowboy, but boy howdy could that man ride! Just watched an old video of him riding a cutting horse in an english saddle with his hands tucked under his armpits. He stuck that saddle like a burr in a Fresians mane.
    Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

  • #2
    I thought/think he was/is great, too. I once posted a video of him bitting a young horse and some NH chick had heart palpitations over the way he did it. He was truly a great horseman but somehow, he didn't 'click' as RK did, seems like. I remember the indian bridle he made up for the jumper who couldn't stand to have something on his head and his rider, can't remember her name, did great things with the horse. Maybe he was too homey or down-home, I don't know.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


    • #3
      He was hardly underrated on the West Coast. Perhaps it's just been a few too many years when there wasn't as much publicity. Mary Mairs (before she became Chapot) was one of his many, many successful students.

      Besides a guy in a cowboy hat is inevitably going to be upstaged by an elegant dressage rider with a German accent any day.
      Last edited by betonbill; Oct. 7, 2012, 01:07 AM. Reason: addition


      • Original Poster

        I do think he is under rated, west coast or anywhere. You hardly hear his name mentioned even though he created many top horses and riders. I'm guessing he is too "down-home".
        Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.


        • #5
          Jimmy was a great trainer and a wonderful person to be around. I'll agree with the underrated thing and maybe it's because he simply went about doing his business and never got involved in the marketing himself on a bigger stage.

          He brought along some extremely talented horses and riders. Any conversation with him could turn in to a real educational experience . I wish there were a few more traners like him, around today.
          I can explain it TO you,but I can't understand it FOR you


          • #6
            The horse with the strange bridle was ridden by Susy Hutchinson I believe.


            • #7
              Originally posted by littlecreek View Post
              The horse with the strange bridle was ridden by Susy Hutchinson I believe.
              You are correct it was Susie Hutchinson and Samsung Woodstock

              "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


              • #8
                Originally posted by littlecreek View Post
                The horse with the strange bridle was ridden by Susy Hutchinson I believe.
                That was/is called a "war bridle", no headstall, just a mouthpiece and reins, I think whatever the mouthpiece was (not sure of this) it was the equivalent of a rope in the mouth. I will never forget this and forever have this image in my mind when I hear his name, and I am from the East Coast.
                "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                  That was/is called a "war bridle", no headstall, just a mouthpiece and reins, I think whatever the mouthpiece was (not sure of this) it was the equivalent of a rope in the mouth. I will never forget this and forever have this image in my mind when I hear his name, and I am from the East Coast.
                  I understood that being called an indian bridle.
                  A war bridle is a kind of halter you make with a lariat.
                  It is stiff and can be very harsh on a horse, as some use it to retrain a horse that acts up, it has much bite to it.
                  JW was a great horseman,trainer and instructor.
                  You have to know the times he lived in, to understand where those trainers came from, to really know him.
                  He made good horses and horsemen.


                  • #10
                    An east coaster here who heard Jimmy Williams name attached to most west coast riders who made the news. Western or english it didn't matter, they learned from him.

                    I got the impression that he was the comsumate horseman and intuitive teacher.

                    I thought Larry Mahan's Equestrian Nation featured Jimmy Williams in an episode, but unable to confirm at this time.

                    Agree more should know of his impact on the horse world.
                    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                    Courtesy my cousin Tim


                    • #11
                      I never met Jimmy firsthand, but knew of him from many magazine articles and books.

                      Jimmy was a classical all-around trainer. In the early years (have only read about these and read a few show result articles), trainers would go to the open shows with every class under the sun, and enter something in darn near every class. I know Jimmy did reining as well as the jumper division, and suspect he probably had a lot of diverse entries.

                      I think he might have been the one who won an open jumper class and demonstrated piaffe when he picked up the blue ribbon. I heard about this from a dressage professional who thought it was a bit of a gaffe on the trainer's part. "They didn't come to see that horse do piaffe, they came to see him jump."

                      There was at least one horse that was successful in both the reining and jumper divisions, and we're talking real success at the A show level, not dinky local shows. It would be unthinkable today to take your winning open jumper and rein him, with big slides and fast spins...but when Jimmy and the others did it, you had an jumper that could turn tight in the jump-offs and make yourself some money.

                      I haven't found my articles that I saved regarding Jimmy, but here's some links to good ones, using the search terms "jimmy williams" horse trainer California.





                      You'll note that he trained Albarado, "The Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit."

                      "I couldn't fix your brakes, so I made your horn louder."


                      • #12
                        He was one of those trainers-of-trainers and had a profound influence on pretty much anyone who rode jumpers at any time on the west coast through the 1990s. Anne Kursinski was also one of his students.

                        He synergized western techniques of lightness and quick spins into the jumper division in a way that was incredibly useful.

                        I have the mental concept of a grand-trainer... I'm not sure if anyone else ever thinks of it this way, but IME most trainers come with a training pedigree from the people who taught them. So I can ride with someone and think, "Oh, that's a bit of Hilda" and "Oh, that's a bit of Jimmy." I'm not sure it's as obvious on the east coast as it is on the west coast, because maybe we had fewer great trainers-of-trainers here. For example, there was a period where I was riding with one Hilda Gurney student for dressage and a different Hilda student for eventing/jumping and it was like hand-in-glove. They both had extended and developed past what she taught in different directions, but you could feel the same core.
                        If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


                        • #13
                          Jimmy was the consumate horseman and showman. I've seen him sitting at the in-gate on a stock horse, arms folded, and his mare just jumping from side to side - you couldn't even see his cues.

                          For a while, at the beginning of every show season he'd come with something new. One year all of his horses would be led out of their stalls and roll a big ball up and down the barn aisle with their noses. Another year would be the year of some bit-or-other that he had devised. As a teen, I always waited to see what he'd do next.

                          And he was generous. Although I was showing for another person, I was pretty much left to my own devices. I was 16 or 17, showing the open hunters, and was thirsty for knowledge. I used to go sit in the stands when Jimmy was schooling and watch. He would see me sitting there and would come over and explain what he was doing and why. I though that was very kind of him.


                          • #14
                            Does anyone remember the wall of bits?? A solid wall of, I'm guessing, custom made bits he thought up?? I wish I could find the video. Thinking there were several as too much info for one vid, he broke it up into palatable chunks??
                            GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


                            • #15
                              Well, son of a gun, I found it...



                              A little Binging going on, here 'tis.
                              GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


                              • #16
                                My friend and her sister trained with Jimmy for several years in the Pasadena area.

                                I watched one of their lessons one time when I was visiting, and he had taken away their stirrups AND their reins. I was in awe.
                                I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry


                                • #17
                                  By no means underrated, he's a legend. I remember a speech he gave at a hall of fame dinner when I was a kid, and he had the place almost literally rolling on the ground laughing. I'll never forget it.


                                  • #18
                                    I always thought the best JImmy WIlliams story I knew was after he'd made a transition from primarily western to hunters and jumpers. Some one mocked him re schooling hunters while wearing a cowboy hat. So he made a bet with that person, a QH breeder. He would purchase a horse from the breeder, and within a year would win a championship with it in reining/hackmore, or the like.
                                    Then the breeder would have to buy it back for double the price. He did exactly that. I believe the horse was a paloomino named Bras D'Or.

                                    I have a couple of June Fallaw photos of Jimmy, one in an Open Jumpers class on Mad Moment, wearing (today we would shudder in dismay!) a porkpie hat, and another on the gorgeous hunter, East Point, jumping a wall, lovely tight knees, rubber snaffle, NO "de rigeur" martingale as just about every hunter today wears.... (because he didn't use one of the horse didn't need it!)

                                    OT: Was delighted to see that Jersey Boy, winner of the Hunter Derby Finals goes w/o a martingale!


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by fooler View Post
                                      I thought Larry Mahan's Equestrian Nation featured Jimmy Williams in an episode, but unable to confirm at this time.
                                      RFD TV showed part 1 tonight and will have part 2 next week.


                                      • #20
                                        Thanks for refreshing this old thread Mac. I loved the old stories. And great old horsemen should never be forgotten!