• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Video of Tennessee Walking Horse We witnessed at the GIHP

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Life long ASB owner here. I'll fight to the death defending my breed. I will Not defend some of training and husbandry to make them a show horse today
    Saddle seat was my first love. You don't need all the fanfare to ride it. Up headed and a good trot is all you really need.
    That is what William Steinkraus used to say, except for the "today's training" comment.

    He too started with ASBs and never apologized for it, as he too thought different is not necessarily wrong, much less abuse.

    He was a fine person and awesome horseman, in anyone's book.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
      That is what William Steinkraus used to say, except for the "today's training" comment.

      He too started with ASBs and never apologized for it, as he too thought different is not necessarily wrong, much less abuse.

      He was a fine person and awesome horseman, in anyone's book.
      It took my best friend FOUR YEARS to get me to understand saddle seat and the World of the Saddlebred. And when you finally see it done RIGHT, and ride a big steppin' horse, WOW. WOW is all I have to say!

      Many of the big, well-known programs are basing their programs on a dressage foundation. Rob and Sarah Byers at Premier in KY are doing it right. And my first lesson, ever, at Biggins in KY was also about bringing my dressage background into play.

      Yes I know I'm talking ASBs vs. TWHs and it's kind of apples to oranges but like you keep reiterating, Bluey, different is not necessarily wrong.
      RIP my beautiful Lola, ????–August 29, 2014

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BigBayHanoMare View Post
        Many of the big, well-known programs are basing their programs on a dressage foundation. Rob and Sarah Byers at Premier in KY are doing it right.
        And it's just wonderful that Rob won the World's Grand Champion Five Gaited stake again this year on Bravo Blue! Yay Rob!
        ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BigBayHanoMare View Post
          It took my best friend FOUR YEARS to get me to understand saddle seat and the World of the Saddlebred. And when you finally see it done RIGHT, and ride a big steppin' horse, WOW. WOW is all I have to say!
          And it is BRED into the horses, not gimicked onto them. I have owned my horse since he was a green broke 2 yr old who only knew how to go and whoa. He has been barefoot, or wearing plates in front every day since. I have ridden him hunter frame in a plain snaffle with no action devices 99% of the past 7 years. Given the proper inspiration (like noisey farm machinary or a particularly glorious day) he will still set me back in my seat, throw his neck back in my lap like a park horse and pop his knees in an awesome gaited style trot. Afterwards he will snort and flag himself and primp walk like he is on cloud nine. None of that has been trained into him. The only way to survive is to raise your hands, pinch your knees and ride like Louisville, and that's what it feels like. He can thrill me every bit as much as my good five gaited show horse could and he does it completely because he loves to do it and that is how he was created.
          ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

          Comment


          • I agree smartalex. All of mine will do it under the horse eating monster circumstances. And it is glorious to ride. However to train them to keep it up throughout a class at every show is a whole nuther ball game.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
              The chains make a noise. Hearing this improves their rhythm. As does gaiting them on a hard surface. If you doubt that than you will also doubt rhythm beads and the fact that a non-gaited horses will try to mimic the foot falls of gaited horses in their company.

              The chain tickles, they try to step out of it. This makes the travel path of the leg longer. Through this you can adjust the timing of the front or hind legs and therefore adjust the gait
              That makes sense and I would not opposed to it being used as a training device rather than an action device. The same way that you don't use polo wraps for a dressage show you shouldn't need the chain for a horse to perform a correct gait. Yes, I am aware that those tools have different purposes but my point if something can be used without altering the horse's natural movement then you shouldn't require to use it all the time.
              Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

              Originally posted by DottieHQ
              You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
                I agree smartalex. All of mine will do it under the horse eating monster circumstances. And it is glorious to ride. However to train them to keep it up throughout a class at every show is a whole nuther ball game.
                Honestly, I've found it is MUCH harder to train them to NOT do it throughout a whole class at the horse show. In fact, I flat out ruined one horse trying to make him a western pleasure horse. We got to the show. Entered the ring. He had the natural reaction most Saddlebreds do, which is to light up and park trot. I tried to talk him down to a jog. He learned to rear right then and there and was never the same again. I think it blew his mind that there was some other kind of show ring performance other than Park Trot.

                Almost any Saddlebred, regardless of the discipline they have been taught, will revert to their nature in the presence of an audience. Generally speaking, you will have at least three times more horse at a show than you will at home. My sister's horse hated to work at home. The best you could do was jog him and keep him fit at home and when he hit that in gait, he was ALL show horse.
                ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Niennor View Post
                  The same way that you don't use polo wraps for a dressage show you shouldn't need the chain for a horse to perform a correct gait.
                  Which is exactly why chains are not allowed in a Saddlebred show ring.
                  ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

                  Comment


                  • I hate being "tickled" and I think a lot of horses hate it, too.

                    They aren't going to object, though, so it's not like they can stop anyone doing it.

                    BL is a spectacle, in the sense that it's artificial and showy and unnatural, and some people love a spectacle for entertainment. It's exciting for some people to see just how bizarre you can make a horse look under saddle. I just don't happen to be one of the people that enjoys that kind of thing.

                    As to the rider with the bare feet and using the outside rein to try to keep the horse on the rail, well ... without using a lower leg or training the horse to respond to your weight in a well schooled manner, that's about as far as you are going to get control-wise. It's kind of like the difference between a muscle car and a sports car ... the muscle car is showy and will get there fast, but don't try to take a sharp corner in it. I don't get the feeling that BL or show walker people care too much about the correct bend or subtle signals.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Kwill View Post
                      I hate being "tickled" and I think a lot of horses hate it, too.

                      They aren't going to object, though, so it's not like they can stop anyone doing it.

                      BL is a spectacle, in the sense that it's artificial and showy and unnatural, and some people love a spectacle for entertainment. It's exciting for some people to see just how bizarre you can make a horse look under saddle. I just don't happen to be one of the people that enjoys that kind of thing.

                      As to the rider with the bare feet and using the outside rein to try to keep the horse on the rail, well ... without using a lower leg or training the horse to respond to your weight in a well schooled manner, that's about as far as you are going to get control-wise. It's kind of like the difference between a muscle car and a sports car ... the muscle car is showy and will get there fast, but don't try to take a sharp corner in it. I don't get the feeling that BL or show walker people care too much about the correct bend or subtle signals.
                      Why would they care what other disciplines demand of their horses?

                      Seems that what they want is what they are getting at the shows and, well, if they can do it without abuse, why not and why would you want them to do what you or I think is "better"?

                      There is not that much we do with horses today that require much technical riding in the sense of "correct bend" or certain "subtle signals" you seem to refer to and still do fine riding their horses.

                      Comment


                      • I agree with hundredacres' assessment of this "sport." Also, was the girl in the last video clip on the gray horse barefoot?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                          Why would they care what other disciplines demand of their horses?
                          Exactly. I've known people who trained Saddle Seat horses on a straightaway and those horses learned to corner at the show. Abusive? No. Naturally, the horses who already knew how to get around a corner had the advantage. And yes, there are a whole lot of trainers out there getting by with horses who won't move off your leg and don't know how to bend, and yes, some of them look awful enough to give us a bad name. But abbreviated training is not isolated to any one discipline. You will have those kind of people now and then.
                          ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
                            Honestly, I've found it is MUCH harder to train them to NOT do it throughout a whole class at the horse show. In fact, I flat out ruined one horse trying to make him a western pleasure horse. We got to the show. Entered the ring. He had the natural reaction most Saddlebreds do, which is to light up and park trot. I tried to talk him down to a jog. He learned to rear right then and there and was never the same again. I think it blew his mind that there was some other kind of show ring performance other than Park Trot.

                            Almost any Saddlebred, regardless of the discipline they have been taught, will revert to their nature in the presence of an audience. Generally speaking, you will have at least three times more horse at a show than you will at home. My sister's horse hated to work at home. The best you could do was jog him and keep him fit at home and when he hit that in gait, he was ALL show horse.
                            I don't know about reverting to nature but they will revert to nurture. My trail riding horse is completely different in an ARENA period. He was trained as a show horse at 2 years old (he's 14 now) and it's the arena itself that sets him off. Indoor is the worst (he gets really big and snorty) which is where most of his training took place with smoke bombs, and fire extinguishers.

                            It's a complete conditioned response. The only other time he gets that big is when something scares him or if I deliberately air him up, which is rare.

                            Comment


                            • Police horses are trained with smoke bombs and fire extinguishers, too; not to mention gunfire.

                              It is all in which responses from the horse you reward as correct.

                              You can train a horse to be alert and animated by rewarding the startle response part of the sequence of reactions to 'something new' or you can train the ho hum nothing bothers me response that you get by rewarding the horse when it eventually ignores the noise/visual and continues on quietly.

                              Neither is abusive training done correctly.
                              Either can be abusive with a fool for a trainer.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
                                It's a complete conditioned response. The only other time he gets that big is when something scares him or if I deliberately air him up, which is rare.
                                With my horses all it takes is an audience. Even horses who have been born here on the farm and never aired up... they get into a new place, the excitement flips their switch. Heck, some of them all they need is for a car to pull over on the side of the road, and they're off!
                                ::With age comes wisdom. Apparently "wisdom" weighs about 40 pounds.::

                                Comment


                                • Our twh like I said before has champion line for bls. Take him in an arena he flips a lid. Different horse, he is terrified and nervous, jumpy and almost crazy. He will park out in the field but you ask in the arena and he will drag you half way around the ring terrified trying to get away. Needless to say he never goes in my ring and doesn't need to he is a trail horse and loves it. But the way he behaves in a ring makes me wonder where he came from. I believe he was abused and tried to be made a bl horse but he had different ideas about that and that's why he ended up with a horse trader that we got him from. Also someone else mentioned keeping their Calf off these horses. Oh yes, it has taken 7 years to get where my husband can trail ride him and relax his calf on. He would just take of faster and faster head straight up and very nervous whenever a leg touched him.
                                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
                                    With my horses all it takes is an audience. Even horses who have been born here on the farm and never aired up... they get into a new place, the excitement flips their switch. Heck, some of them all they need is for a car to pull over on the side of the road, and they're off!
                                    None of my non SS trained horses act like that away from home. They were all trained by a professional trainer even my SS trained that was retrained by the same trainer. Even when they were green and I took them away from home for the first time. However NONE are kept in stall either.


                                    The recipe is this, stalled 24/7 with short workouts and zero turnout, conditioned response triggers, muscle memory work on neck and legs, farrier work.

                                    OTOH I'm quite certain because of the fire bomb etc. training. I have a horse that will walk into, through, over, after ANYTHING that scares him.

                                    What I really abhor more than anything is what they do to the babies to show. I did it, and hired to have it done. Wedges, weights, ginger etc. DO NOT EVER belong on 4 month old horses ever. I can't believe I ever thought it was okay. In fact I guess I never did, the foals I sacrificed to that lot I never touched because if I had any relationship with them I could not have let it happen.

                                    I've been to KY and saw some of the best horses out there.Trying to explain it to a 16 year left me without words. Deliberately scaring horses in their stalls to make them look cool is so NOT cool. Chaining the nose to the neck and with a flying W during a workout so not cool. (that horse won a WC title that year). It's crap training. My opinion.

                                    ASB's are reactive, upright and animated horses yes. They are trained to be MORE reactive, more animated, and more upright than they would be if it weren't for all the appliances. In fact the length of time it would take to train them without appliances is exactly why it isn't done.

                                    Comment


                                    • But none of this justifies stacks being nailed to a horse's foot. No matter how you turn it - it is cruel.

                                      ANd I think the perfect limit is to disallow bands on any shown horse. Right along with chains. They do not belong in the competition ring for obvious reasons.

                                      ANd the bad example of why would be the TWH and their extremes which led to some very well federal deserved laws.

                                      Show associations should be and for the most part are pro limits.

                                      Again - other than TWH, SSH & Racking - whose stacks prove it can go to far.
                                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                      Comment


                                      • None of it justifies crappy farrier work. I have NEVER seen a nice balanced hoof that needed bands to hold the shoe package.

                                        The way I understood a query on a farrier site was, they do what's in the "best interest of the horses life". Meaning, if the horse has no job then it doesn't have a good chance at a good life. Tricky dem der words.

                                        Comment


                                        • Out of curiosity tonight, I fastened a lightweight chain around my arab's pastern.. It was loose.....I rode her up and down the driveway and she did NOTHING. She could have cared less.

                                          There's more to the chains than they are telling us. It;s a load of crap that it causes them to reach, perform or give them rhythm. That same mare will prance when she see's new horses, knees high, head and tail flying, feet light as air - so she knows how to show off. But the plain, lightweight, loose chains didn't do a damned thing.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X