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Pierce County, Washington seizure?

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  • #21
    Ok OT here but I just laughed out loud when the newscaster said the horses were "standing in feces".

    Feces is such a nasty sounding word. Manure just doesn't equate to "feces" to me. Even though that is what it really is, and the horses were allegedly up to their bellies in it.

    Carry on.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Fairfax View Post


      The owner is doctor
      So,what is your point? 2 of the worst long time defendants we deal with at my job are doctors. Doesn't make them exempt from neglecting animals.

      Comment


      • #23
        Credibility to my source as it has not been disclosed by the media as of this hour
        The Elephant in the room

        Comment


        • #24
          I read this too and it didn't make sense. If they were locked in the barn, why DID it take 9 hours.
          If the DEA is involved, there are other things going on.

          9 hours "herding time" to catch them all. NEVER happened.
          The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
          H. Cate

          Comment


          • #25
            9 hours "herding time" per the media. When does the media get it right regarding horsey terminology 100% of the time? "Herding time" could very well mean "time spent loading horses".

            I could see it taking 9 hours (or something close to that) to load 39 horses who've not been handled much. Heck, anyone that trailers horses on a regular basis has at least one story about "the one who wouldn't load" and how it took FOREVER to get the dang beast on the trailer. Yep, they showed a horse hopping right on the trailer in the video. Doesn't mean they all did, but it is also a pretty reasonable assumption that some of these horse knew how to load prior to ending up at this place. So yeah, even if only half the horses threw a fit about getting on a trailer I could see it taking a long time. Add to that surely there were multiple trailers coming and going, multiple people coordinating the loading/hauling...highly doubt they had the exact number of trailers lined up on the property and enough people to load these horses up like an assembly line at a factory so they could zip in and zip out. Probably did take a pretty long time. 9 hours? Could very well have been, especially if they weren't very organized.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by GaitedGloryRider View Post
              9 hours "herding time" per the media. When does the media get it right regarding horsey terminology 100% of the time? "Herding time" could very well mean "time spent loading horses".

              I could see it taking 9 hours (or something close to that) to load 39 horses who've not been handled much. Heck, anyone that trailers horses on a regular basis has at least one story about "the one who wouldn't load" and how it took FOREVER to get the dang beast on the trailer. Yep, they showed a horse hopping right on the trailer in the video. Doesn't mean they all did, but it is also a pretty reasonable assumption that some of these horse knew how to load prior to ending up at this place. So yeah, even if only half the horses threw a fit about getting on a trailer I could see it taking a long time. Add to that surely there were multiple trailers coming and going, multiple people coordinating the loading/hauling...highly doubt they had the exact number of trailers lined up on the property and enough people to load these horses up like an assembly line at a factory so they could zip in and zip out. Probably did take a pretty long time. 9 hours? Could very well have been, especially if they weren't very organized.
              Also... They looked to be using small trailers, 3 or 4 horses... Can you imaging how long it would take to get 39 horses out 2, 3, or 4 at a time?

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by RedmondDressage View Post
                Also... They looked to be using small trailers, 3 or 4 horses... Can you imaging how long it would take to get 39 horses out 2, 3, or 4 at a time?
                Yep, actually I can. I moved 14 in one day from a place using a 4 horse stock trailer, 4 trips total. Total time spent on the ground loading was probably about 3 hours (a few were hard to load), unloading probably about half that (they came off a little easier thankfully). Had two people helping me. Also didn't have the added hindrance of documenting the horses I was taking (which they likely did in this situation) but there was the issue of figuring out who would travel with who since I didn't know the horses all that well (another problem the people moving these horses likely faced). Had to unload a couple times and rearrange to avoid the possibility of a fight during travel. We were at least pretty organized and did have a little knowledge of some of the horses' personalities, who were buddies and what-not.

                Probably they had a vet on-site, and maybe they were able to tranq some bad loaders if needed (one luxury we did not have in my scenario). Even if they did, just going off my own experience I could easily see it taking 9 hours.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by GaitedGloryRider View Post
                  Yep, actually I can. I moved 14 in one day from a place using a 4 horse stock trailer, 4 trips total. Total time spent on the ground loading was probably about 3 hours (a few were hard to load), unloading probably about half that (they came off a little easier thankfully). Had two people helping me. Also didn't have the added hindrance of documenting the horses I was taking (which they likely did in this situation) but there was the issue of figuring out who would travel with who since I didn't know the horses all that well (another problem the people moving these horses likely faced). Had to unload a couple times and rearrange to avoid the possibility of a fight during travel. We were at least pretty organized and did have a little knowledge of some of the horses' personalities, who were buddies and what-not.

                  Probably they had a vet on-site, and maybe they were able to tranq some bad loaders if needed (one luxury we did not have in my scenario). Even if they did, just going off my own experience I could easily see it taking 9 hours.
                  Agreed, easily... I mean if you figure 3 horses at a time, 30 minutes to load, transport and unload. That right there is 6.5 hours. No way did things happen that fast with loading alone, not to mention all of the other things that would need to happen in a government operation (inspections, paperwork, etc).

                  I don't wholeheartedly trust the system but jumping to a conspiracy theory here seems a bit ridiculous, especially with the supposed evidence given. For example, I was unaware that doctor's were incapable of animal abuse... If anything suspicious comes to light it would be worth questioning but at this point I don't see any evidence of that.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    The doctor's name is John Diller, wife Tina.

                    Story is a ex-employee from his office complained of illegal perscriptions, DEA served a warrant on Monday and searched his house and barns. Then they (DEA) informed Pierce County of the horses and they got a warrant based upon word and most likely pictures from the DEA .

                    When a seizure is done like this...and the OMG WE HAVE NEVER seen horses in such deplorable condition....standing in stalls for MONTHS with NIGHT EYES and never let out and all starving

                    and then pictures do not confirm horses that had been standing in squalor for even a couple of days....looking no worse than half the horses in American and the oldest horse ( the one they have on parade) is now CONFIRMED to be THIRTY FIVE YEARS OLD

                    And there is a lot of feed on the barn.


                    And as I said...they are using the county money to pull off a seizure to support the D.E.A. investigation...

                    It has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HORSES

                    It has everything to do with ?????XYZ....?????

                    But now the lies start and the money is STOLEN from donators as it is under false pretense.

                    The head of the rescue who is married to the LE officer in charge of horse calls is in Thurston County and she has been under a cloud of controversy from many of her "other seizures"
                    The Elephant in the room

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      “They’re very, very skittish,” Anderson said.

                      Animal control officers hoped to remove all 39 horse by the end of the day.

                      “We were able to get everything together very quickly to have the animals removed and receive the proper care they need,” said Brian Boman, the county’s animal control supervisor.

                      The horses were taken to a county park to be checked out by a veterinarian. Animal control officers arranged to have one ton of feed delivered to the park.

                      The animals’ owner was on site during the raid and has been “pretty cooperative and has obeyed all directives,” Anderson said.

                      I sure bet I know that threat. Get into your home and do NOT come out. We have professionals here who will know what to do with THESE animals. IF YOU CALL A LAWYER OR MAKE ANY ATTEMPT TO BLOCK THIS SEIZURE WE WILL CHARGE YOU AND PUT YOUR AND YOUR FAMILY IN JAIL---
                      The Elephant in the room

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Redmonddressage- Thanks for the insight on the responsiveness of the local OR AC. I was speaking in a very general way and didn't even realise that my words could be very insulting and unfair to the agencies who really are on the ball.

                        I also thought the wet muck was unusual- even for total neglect... looking more like a dairy lot muck than a horse barn. Although neglected stalls can get wet and hazardous with ammonia- usually horses aren't going to produce something that sloppy under a roof unless there is a problem with a roof leak or a drainage problem outside the barn that's driving water in.

                        That was interesting Fairfax that you say there was some sort of broken water line. (Aside: I assumed that Fairfax was female... I guess it doesn't matter- none of my business- I am curious though- you seem to be very concerned that middleaged/ older single women are being railroaded off their property without proper representation- I guess a man could care about a pattern he was seeing- but I just assumed that a woman would tune in to a pattern like that.)

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Nope...a 62 year old male

                          The barn, unlike the news account is open beamed and bright bright bright...lots of natural light and wide aisle way.

                          Roof is in good condition and according to locals and EXTREME drought and everything is very very dry. Lends credibility to a snap in a water line.

                          Also lends credibility that the horses were outside and put in for D.E.A. inventory AND A PHOTO OP.

                          According to "Rob" who printed the letter in Modern Arabian the HSUS sponsored clinic for A/C and Police, gave them buzz words to use, how to make the perp sound like they kill babies and eat them, REMOVE ALL HAY AND WATER BEFORE PHOTOS OF HORSES IN STALLS..was another..and what I found most outstanding..don't worry about putting a picture of a horse in terrible shape "as an example"...does NOT have to be from the herd...so they are coached to LIE...its all there in the article...the one his farm was busted over a couple of weeks after it was in the mail.

                          According to locals these folks do NOT starve their horses and many have gone onto blogs to state so. They know them.

                          This is just the D.E.A. making the water murky....allows for plea bargaining for what ever it is they think they have on the Doctor.

                          Also...Charges will be pending...yup...I am sure of that...however there is just too much smoke regarding this seizure.

                          I will say it again...everytime our group has come across one like this...it has NEVER been legit

                          Also...broken record here...they do NOT usually seize horses from POOR PEOPLE...they try keep them on their land...and they drag their heels. These were gone in a nano second to the fairgrounds and they are already quoting how much work, feed, money this is going to cost THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RECLAIM...

                          The public at large usually would not attribute this to puppy mill type breeding as there are not a gaggle of foals around. However the comments are...shame shame shame...all breeders should be stopped. This is what happens when breeders are not restricted etc...kinda makes a person wonder...whose mantra is that anyway
                          The Elephant in the room

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Yes you are right about that when does the media get the terminology right. To load them up and get them out could very easily take 9 hours. For that many horses that's not bad.

                            Originally posted by GaitedGloryRider View Post
                            9 hours "herding time" per the media. When does the media get it right regarding horsey terminology 100% of the time? "Herding time" could very well mean "time spent loading horses".

                            I could see it taking 9 hours (or something close to that) to load 39 horses who've not been handled much. Heck, anyone that trailers horses on a regular basis has at least one story about "the one who wouldn't load" and how it took FOREVER to get the dang beast on the trailer. Yep, they showed a horse hopping right on the trailer in the video. Doesn't mean they all did, but it is also a pretty reasonable assumption that some of these horse knew how to load prior to ending up at this place. So yeah, even if only half the horses threw a fit about getting on a trailer I could see it taking a long time. Add to that surely there were multiple trailers coming and going, multiple people coordinating the loading/hauling...highly doubt they had the exact number of trailers lined up on the property and enough people to load these horses up like an assembly line at a factory so they could zip in and zip out. Probably did take a pretty long time. 9 hours? Could very well have been, especially if they weren't very organized.
                            The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                            H. Cate

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              It will be interesting to see how this plays out. You have some interesting points.

                              [
                              Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                              Nope...a 62 year old male

                              The barn, unlike the news account is open beamed and bright bright bright...lots of natural light and wide aisle way.

                              Roof is in good condition and according to locals and EXTREME drought and everything is very very dry. Lends credibility to a snap in a water line.

                              Also lends credibility that the horses were outside and put in for D.E.A. inventory AND A PHOTO OP.

                              According to "Rob" who printed the letter in Modern Arabian the HSUS sponsored clinic for A/C and Police, gave them buzz words to use, how to make the perp sound like they kill babies and eat them, REMOVE ALL HAY AND WATER BEFORE PHOTOS OF HORSES IN STALLS..was another..and what I found most outstanding..don't worry about putting a picture of a horse in terrible shape "as an example"...does NOT have to be from the herd...so they are coached to LIE...its all there in the article...the one his farm was busted over a couple of weeks after it was in the mail.

                              According to locals these folks do NOT starve their horses and many have gone onto blogs to state so. They know them.

                              This is just the D.E.A. making the water murky....allows for plea bargaining for what ever it is they think they have on the Doctor.

                              Also...Charges will be pending...yup...I am sure of that...however there is just too much smoke regarding this seizure.

                              I will say it again...everytime our group has come across one like this...it has NEVER been legit

                              Also...broken record here...they do NOT usually seize horses from POOR PEOPLE...they try keep them on their land...and they drag their heels. These were gone in a nano second to the fairgrounds and they are already quoting how much work, feed, money this is going to cost THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO RECLAIM...

                              The public at large usually would not attribute this to puppy mill type breeding as there are not a gaggle of foals around. However the comments are...shame shame shame...all breeders should be stopped. This is what happens when breeders are not restricted etc...kinda makes a person wonder...whose mantra is that anyway
                              The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                              H. Cate

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I was curious, as this is happening north of here. For the most part, WA ACs try to educate and leave horses in place. After seeing the videos, and reading pretty much every account on the web for this incident, I think AC made a good call. If the owner is jailed on the drug situation, who would care for this many horses? He apparently was the only caretaker, with a full time job. Honestly--how does one person care for that many horses in just the evening??

                                The stabling (ugh) was definitely sub-par, horses were injured and ill, conditions were awful, and filthy crap was everywhere. Obviously, one man was not able to adequately care for the horses, so the county is taking over for the time being. Regardless of what Fairfax claims, I do think AC needs to step in to secure the welfare of animals.
                                Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                  ...My state government contact tells me this is not adding up...

                                  Story is a ex-employee from his office complained of illegal perscriptions, DEA served a warrant on Monday and searched his house and barns. Then they (DEA) informed Pierce County of the horses and they got a warrant based upon word and most likely pictures from the DEA...

                                  The head of the rescue who is married to the LE officer in charge of horse calls is in Thurston County and she has been under a cloud of controversy from many of her "other seizures"

                                  Fairfax: please notify your contact within the CIA (preferably by Stealth Pigeon) to immediately send you all Top Secret and Classified files on any employees and associates of the DEA, FBI, FEMA, AAA, GOP, NATO, IRS, NAACP, and the AARP.

                                  Use your Secret Decoder Ring and scan these files to identify any and all HSUS, PETA, ALF, and any other annoying RARA infiltrators. There has been a grave security breach - and we are depending on you to save the United States of America.

                                  This is urgent - please get on this ASAP.

                                  TY (Thank You)

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Fairfax, you seem to be "in the know" here...do you know these people personally? Have you been to the barn, seen it, seen the horses in question? Not trying to be a smart @$$, sincerely wondering.

                                    It does strike me as odd that they had a (by Fairfax's account) water line break right before the DEA shows up to serve warrants. What are the odds? Coincidences like that raise red flags to me, they sound too much like excuses in these types of situations. *IF* that is true hope they didn't waste their money on a lottery ticket this week.

                                    The barn just looked like pure filth. If the manure was indeed packed a foot deep, well there is no way to blame that on a water line break, it's pure neglect. Dirty stalls are one thing, skipping stalls a day or two is gross but it does happen, but a foot of manure takes a long time to accumulate even of the horses are in all the time. And a foot of manure packed in stalls is a sure sign at least some degree neglect is taking place. Also, in the case of a water line break, why the hell would it go unaddressed? Why were the horses not turned out to get them out of that slop, why would they be brought into a barn in that condition before it was cleaned out, why was the barn not cleaned out as soon as the situation was realized? I've never seen a barn flood where the horses weren't removed (put in the pastures, whatever) and the barn cleaned out immediately. Is there anyone on here that WOULDN'T make rectifying a flooded barn top priority?

                                    Can't speak for the way the seizure was handled but the condition of that barn leaves a LOT to be desired.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      In none of the accounts I read on-line (reputable newspapers from the area), no water line break was mentioned. I get the feeling Fairfax is full of it. Give me names, sources, etc. or leave it real journalists. If you think it is all a scam, Fairfax, get the news folks on it, maybe a nice Fox station
                                      Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Typically, AC here doesn't wait until the bitter end. They do check up - barn where I used to board had a 36 yr old TB who was a hard keeper, so they stopped by occassionally due to complaints from the concerned, but they weren't charging in confrontationally. Though I am in King county, not Pierce where the seizure occurred.

                                        Here's the local news story from the day the horses were seized:

                                        http://www.king5.com/news/Dozens-of-...171398371.html

                                        I noticed that there was way more water in the barn than ws likely from horses peeing, and it hasn't rained here for months, but it could be a leaking hose or pipe.

                                        The first stall that was shown obviously had a solid floor of poop in it, but at the end of the video, the horse is nosing what looks like a pretty clean stall floor. So there seems to be variability in what was there. It was light enough in the barn for filming in some of the stalls - can't tell what the conditions were in all of the stalls/barns. I think I remember hearing that there were 3 barns.

                                        The horse's body conditions looked ok to me, but the conditions look like they warrant investigation. I'll keep my ear to the local grapevine, but I'm not that close and since I don't have Arabs or drafts I'm not too connected.

                                        One of the reasons that AC in this area actually responds to complaints up here, was the 1992 death of Pasado, a donkey at a local park and demonstration farm. Some teens/young adults tied him to a tree and beat him to death. It caused the citizens and the authorities in the area to agree not to tolerate animal abuse and that attitude has lasted many years.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Abercrombie View Post
                                          Fairfax: please notify your contact within the CIA (preferably by Stealth Pigeon) to immediately send you all Top Secret and Classified files on any employees and associates of the DEA, FBI, FEMA, AAA, GOP, NATO, IRS, NAACP, and the AARP.

                                          Use your Secret Decoder Ring and scan these files to identify any and all HSUS, PETA, ALF, and any other annoying RARA infiltrators. There has been a grave security breach - and we are depending on you to save the United States of America.

                                          This is urgent - please get on this ASAP.

                                          TY (Thank You)
                                          Dear Abby Normal

                                          You are wayyyyy behind in the time. Took care of that last week.

                                          Now back to REGULAR programming

                                          This is truly weird

                                          Tonight the County Auditor has been swollowing up time onTV and radio stating that these horribly neglected animals required IMMEDIATE intervention no matter what the cost.

                                          My secret hand shake spy tells me she is way out of her jurisdiction and it almost appears the DEA jumped in..whoops...not enough evidence based on what they were investigating and now they must come up with something...so the terrible abuse story is fed and fed and fed.
                                          The Elephant in the room

                                          Comment

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