• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

ColoredCowHorse's horses seized?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The count of hay bales on CCH's property makes me wonder a bit..

    Am I the only one who has a hay farmer who stores my hay all year round?

    I generally only have enough hay on site for 2 weeks, as I go for a load of hay every second saturday, even through winter.

    I can just imagine how weird that might look to someone looking at my hay supply for some reason.
    Originally posted by ExJumper
    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
      Personally, I disagree with this.
      If you have the proper set up (tractor, fields with adequate shelter, access to sufficient hay and water, etc) you can drive from field to field and take care of that many and more without too much hassle.

      My 65 year old land lady that I rented a room from in Texas had a herd of like ...24? paso finos and it took her a grand total of 15 minutes, twice a day, to feed them.
      1. put hose in water trough and turn on
      2. call horses
      3. all come in and run in their stalls
      4. go down aisle dispensing scoops of grain from the grain trolley
      5. refill grain trolley for next feeding
      6. turn off hose
      7. dispense hay piles in pasture if winter (adds 10 minutes to winter evening feedings)
      8. let them back out

      They were in their stalls for maybe 30 minutes a day and stalls got mucked once or twice a week, which took maybe half an hour.

      The biggest issue was when they would be idiots and "forget" where their stalls were despite the fact they had been doing this for the past decade.

      Another family I know in PA had a bazillion connemara cross ponies that all lived in big fields, they would drive the grain tractor and dispense feed/check the autowaterers twice a day for half an hour. Someone would drop off round bales in the winter which was no extra work for them.

      There seems to be a knee jerk reaction that double digits in horses automatically = bare bones care and overwhelmed single women who should have known better but that is not necessarily the case in a well managed program.
      I see where you're coming from but these are horses who've had minimal handling (or handeling [not George Fridric either] from the webiste) and have a few owies which need medicating. I was thinking feeding would prolly be the least of the time used. This is an awful lot for one person unless they have help somehow.
      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rainechyldes View Post
        The count of hay bales on CCH's property makes me wonder a bit..

        Am I the only one who has a hay farmer who stores my hay all year round?

        I generally only have enough hay on site for 2 weeks, as I go for a load of hay every second saturday, even through winter.

        I can just imagine how weird that might look to someone looking at my hay supply for some reason.
        I sort of do this. I can buy hay all winter long and since there are less horses and dairies now, the price has come down a smidge. So, my barn will hold 30 bales, I use that and then when needed, trot down and buy some more. Next year might be different because of the excess this year. The hayers may not plant as much or do as many cuttings. For the time being, this is the way it is.
        GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

        Comment


        • I also buy my hay as needed. My hay guy is 10 minutes from my house and can store massive amounts of hay. He knows exactly how many his clients need to get through the winter, most of his clients pick up 1-2 times monthly. I do the same...I pick up 10-20 at a time and always keep at least 10 days of hay in my barn.

          But...I only have 2 horses. So 10-20 bales is 10-20 days of hay. If I had 10, 20 or 30 horses then I'd have more storage for more hay. No way would I want to go pick up hay every other day, only getting 10-20 at a time with that many horses.

          Of course it all depends on what kind of bales she had. Was it 16 small squares, big squares or a small or large round bale? Huge difference. Small squares is one day of hay. (if there isn't any grazing) Large 100# squares is 2 days of hay. Round bales...then 16 shouldn't be questionable I wouldn't think.
          You jump in the saddle,
          Hold onto the bridle!
          Jump in the line!
          ...Belefonte

          Comment


          • Lots of horses eat lots of hay - and there isn't "pasture" in these parts

            34 horses - no pasture or any other source of forage (horses are on sand - leading to sand colic).

            If each horse was fed 15 pounds a day (I personally would feed much more, but assuming these are little horses and easy keepers), that would be 510 pounds of hay every day.

            Or approximately 5 big 100 pound bales every day
            Or 10 small 50 pound bales every day

            Or weekly - 35 big bales a week
            Or 70 small bales a week

            That is A LOT of hay - because we are talking about A LOT of horses!

            I pay $15 for a 110lb bale if I drive 50 miles to the "cheap place" (otherwise it is $20 a bale). It would cost me $525 A WEEK to feed this herd.

            Not sure if hay is cheaper way out in Fallon - ours comes from the central valley (closer to the source than Fallon).
            APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
              34 horses - no pasture or any other source of forage (horses are on sand - leading to sand colic).

              If each horse was fed 15 pounds a day (I personally would feed much more, but assuming these are little horses and easy keepers), that would be 510 pounds of hay every day.

              Or approximately 5 big 100 pound bales every day
              Or 10 small 50 pound bales every day

              Or weekly - 35 big bales a week
              Or 70 small bales a week

              That is A LOT of hay - because we are talking about A LOT of horses!

              I pay $15 for a 110lb bale if I drive 50 miles to the "cheap place" (otherwise it is $20 a bale). It would cost me $525 A WEEK to feed this herd.

              Not sure if hay is cheaper way out in Fallon - ours comes from the central valley (closer to the source than Fallon).
              \

              By graining her horses she will cut down on the amount of hay.
              The Elephant in the room

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                A hay supplier on another forum commented on something I said:


                Epona142:
                Perhaps this rescue is already biting off more than it can chew...

                I believe this rescue is only a few months old. How long until we get to see their desperate begging for donations. IF it hasn't begun already. I try to avoid their FB "wall" as it's a lot of people screaming about hoarders and what not.
                Small Time Hay:
                They already have, we've been approched by this rescue to donate hay and additional posts. This is the same rescue I posted about in the debate board Rescue's topic.
                K-N-S Farm
                Daily Goat Videos & Pictures
                Website | Facebook | Youtube

                Comment


                • Fairfax: Grain costs money too. Wasn't lack of ready cash part of the problem?

                  Or is it more usual to be able to pay for grain with a credit card at the feed store and hay is bought through a different pipeline?
                  We buy some of our grain and bagged forage products at the TSC and can use a cc, or at Southern States, they sell different brands and sell hay and straw, which does cc and carries accounts. Our feed mill carries its own accounts only and we can get concentrates and hay there, but the hay guy is a cash only seller and the price is far lower than at any of the credit places. It's 33% lower easily, but we have to come up with a couple hundred dollars up front and fill our loft, he doesn't store hay off site.

                  ETA Just did some calculating. Bagged forage products are a reasonable substitute for some hay, although the gut needs that one inch or longer fiber to get the scratch factor and remain healthier. At about 15 dollars for 40 lbs of alfalfa cubes she could rack up a cc bill but keep them fed. Our mill sells a 10% molassed feed for about $9 a fiftyweight, not the best quality feed though. At 5 lbs a head per day (w roughly 20 head) she'd still be running through $20 bucks a day in concentrates and needing a forage product to keep her horses from colicking if nothing else. Being in NV where the range will only support a fraction of an animal unit per acre she is just SOL. She has to pay out, and pay out a lot.
                  Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                  Incredible Invisible

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ReSomething View Post
                    Fairfax: Grain costs money too. Wasn't lack of ready cash part of the problem?

                    Or is it more usual to be able to pay for grain with a credit card at the feed store and hay is bought through a different pipeline?
                    We buy some of our grain and bagged forage products at the TSC and can use a cc, or at Southern States, they sell different brands and sell hay and straw, which does cc and carries accounts. Our feed mill carries its own accounts only and we can get concentrates and hay there, but the hay guy is a cash only seller and the price is far lower than at any of the credit places. It's 33% lower easily, but we have to come up with a couple hundred dollars up front and fill our loft, he doesn't store hay off site.

                    ETA Just did some calculating. Bagged forage products are a reasonable substitute for some hay, although the gut needs that one inch or longer fiber to get the scratch factor and remain healthier. At about 15 dollars for 40 lbs of alfalfa cubes she could rack up a cc bill but keep them fed. Our mill sells a 10% molassed feed for about $9 a fiftyweight, not the best quality feed though. At 5 lbs a head per day (w roughly 20 head) she'd still be running through $20 bucks a day in concentrates and needing a forage product to keep her horses from colicking if nothing else. Being in NV where the range will only support a fraction of an animal unit per acre she is just SOL. She has to pay out, and pay out a lot.

                    well, we have been seeing the threads about BM/BOs cutting the rising hay prices by increasing cheap grain feeds.

                    Comment


                    • Was there talk about a bunch of bagged grain on site?

                      5 pound a day × 34 horses is 175 pounds (or 3 1/2 50 lb sacs) of grain per day (and at $9 a bag for crud, I am not sure how $30 a day in supplemental feed would save much $)

                      Plus you can't feed this stuff on the ground, all that sand causes colic. And you HAVE to feed large amounts of hay in sandy areas to move that sand.. Because they will colic, especially if they are hungry and chasing every last scrap rooting down in the sand.

                      But it sounds like she has already had a number of colics, and horses in poor health due to her feeding practices.

                      I have kept horses in sandy areas, it takes careful management.
                      APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                        Personally, I disagree with this.
                        If you have the proper set up (tractor, fields with adequate shelter, access to sufficient hay and water, etc) you can drive from field to field and take care of that many and more without too much hassle.

                        My 65 year old land lady that I rented a room from in Texas had a herd of like ...24? paso finos and it took her a grand total of 15 minutes, twice a day, to feed them.
                        1. put hose in water trough and turn on
                        2. call horses
                        3. all come in and run in their stalls
                        4. go down aisle dispensing scoops of grain from the grain trolley
                        5. refill grain trolley for next feeding
                        6. turn off hose
                        7. dispense hay piles in pasture if winter (adds 10 minutes to winter evening feedings)
                        8. let them back out

                        They were in their stalls for maybe 30 minutes a day and stalls got mucked once or twice a week, which took maybe half an hour.

                        The biggest issue was when they would be idiots and "forget" where their stalls were despite the fact they had been doing this for the past decade.

                        Another family I know in PA had a bazillion connemara cross ponies that all lived in big fields, they would drive the grain tractor and dispense feed/check the autowaterers twice a day for half an hour. Someone would drop off round bales in the winter which was no extra work for them.

                        There seems to be a knee jerk reaction that double digits in horses automatically = bare bones care and overwhelmed single women who should have known better but that is not necessarily the case in a well managed program.
                        I have to agree with this. One of my BOs is 75 and doesn't have a tractor. He manages an average of about 20 head over the year. Stalls don't get done often, but they don't spend much time in them. He has troughs instead of buckets, and it really doesn't matter who ends up in what stall when they come into be fed.

                        My trainer is 65 and has 34 head and is adjusting to handling it by himself. He has someone help feed & muck, but he also has about 14 in training. His is one of the most efficient set ups I've ever seen.

                        When I was a kid, I helped in a barn where we could hay/grain/water 15 head in around 30 mins (2X a day). In general, I don't get the impression that COTHers are the most efficient barnkeepers.
                        Visit my Spoonflower shop

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                          HSUS and DEFHR and Queens County LOST a major case in Maryland. The lawsuits will be filed in 2013 and TORT has already been filed.

                          It was a classic case of falsifying information, lying under oath, and doing it for training and donations.

                          The judge saw evidence to all of the above and basically tossed out abuse and neglect charges. Number of horses impaced 133


                          This case was watched by lawyers across the U.S.A. and they now have a precedent to challenge.

                          Legal fees were around one half million...This was a very strong woman who stood up to them And was finally able to sell some property that the county had put a restriction on..hoping to force her into a position of bankruptcy.

                          Sherrifs overstep their authority because no one challenges them. Rescues and AC MANY TIMES (not always) are involved for the money
                          Sadly, this is becoming a trend, money is the bottom line and unless the horse owners have the money to fight, they just roll over and give up. I know of a few cases in the Northeast and one in the midwest (cannot remember where) that the "volunteers" and "rescues" involved have been quoted as saying that pictures were falsified, facts changed and the donations that rolled in was all that really mattered. At least 2 owners are still fighting but honestly who here has hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight?

                          I, like many others here, have enough hay on hand for 2 weeks and my hay supplier delivers to me twice a month, but if AC was to come in on day 13, would I be in danger of having my animals seized for not having enough feed on hand? I purchase my grain in bulk, every 6 weeks, can you imagine if the grain and hay were in low supply the same week ? It only takes one unscrupulous person to throw your reputation into the crapper and once that happens no amount of fighting will ever get it back no matter what the legal outcome maybe which is very scary.

                          Sorry to take this off track but it just got me thinking this morning.

                          As for the pictures, there is just NO excuse for any horse to ever have a foot that looks like that. By a rasp and nippers and get to work, hard to handle? buy tranq

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by anon123456 View Post
                            I, like many others here, have enough hay on hand for 2 weeks and my hay supplier delivers to me twice a month, but if AC was to come in on day 13, would I be in danger of having my animals seized for not having enough feed on hand? I purchase my grain in bulk, every 6 weeks, can you imagine if the grain and hay were in low supply the same week ? Sorry to take this off track but it just got me thinking this morning.

                            As for the pictures, there is just NO excuse for any horse to ever have a foot that looks like that. By a rasp and nippers and get to work, hard to handle? buy tranq
                            You would not be in danger b/c presumably, your horses are in decent condition and have been properly maintained/cared for. (I did assist AC/SPCA not too long ago). Most AC officers do not take seizing horses lightly. Most would rather have the owners rectify the situation. Of course, their are unscrupulous people in all positions, including people who own animals and fail to care for them.
                            Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post
                              You would not be in danger b/c presumably, your horses are in decent condition and have been properly maintained/cared for. (I did assist AC/SPCA not too long ago). Most AC officers do not take seizing horses lightly. Most would rather have the owners rectify the situation. Of course, their are unscrupulous people in all positions, including people who own animals and fail to care for them.
                              Right, no one is talking about normal, sensible, good caretakers and managers and officers, that do what needs to be done and some times make mistakes.

                              We are talking about caretakers that fail to take care, officers of any kind that are bullies and lie.
                              Thankfully, I at least hope so, there are not many of either of those, too bad that there are any of them.

                              Now, when it comes to what those animal rights extremists groups do and foment, trying to get their agenda to move forward, the animals a mere prop, then I am not sure it is isolated incidents of doing something wrong, but more the norm, with all that I have seen them be involved, time and again, over many years.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post
                                You would not be in danger b/c presumably, your horses are in decent condition and have been properly maintained/cared for. (I did assist AC/SPCA not too long ago). Most AC officers do not take seizing horses lightly. Most would rather have the owners rectify the situation. Of course, their are unscrupulous people in all positions, including people who own animals and fail to care for them.
                                Well, I would love to agree with you.
                                But even among educated horse people we cannot agree on a standard of care.
                                What I deem in fine weight, somebody else would consider thin. And here we start having a problem.
                                Next, what is considered decent horse keeping.
                                I do consider it perfectly fine when under certain circumstances a horse does not have a full water bucket in front of him 24/7. Others consider it grounds to move barns. And so on and so forth.

                                Now, If a person who considers a horse below a 6 on the infamous scale, only meant for QH broodmares to be thin and the bucket that is waiting to be refilled for the scheduled watering a serious faux pas in animal husbandry has a badge and an agenda...I would be up the creek without a paddle.

                                I hope most AC officers are decent people.
                                But sadly a growing number has no longer any idea about anything larger than a Great Dane and the influence of the AR people is also ever more increasing.

                                You might not like what Bluey and Fairfax have to say, but one should heed their warnings and keep an eye out on who gets the nod in terms of enforcement powers.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                  Well, I would love to agree with you.
                                  But even among educated horse people we cannot agree on a standard of care.
                                  What I deem in fine weight, somebody else would consider thin. And here we start having a problem.
                                  Next, what is considered decent horse keeping.
                                  I do consider it perfectly fine when under certain circumstances a horse does not have a full water bucket in front of him 24/7. Others consider it grounds to move barns. And so on and so forth.

                                  Now, If a person who considers a horse below a 6 on the infamous scale, only meant for QH broodmares to be thin and the bucket that is waiting to be refilled for the scheduled watering a serious faux pas in animal husbandry has a badge and an agenda...I would be up the creek without a paddle.

                                  I hope most AC officers are decent people.
                                  But sadly a growing number has no longer any idea about anything larger than a Great Dane and the influence of the AR people is also ever more increasing.

                                  You might not like what Bluey and Fairfax have to say, but one should heed their warnings and keep an eye out on who gets the nod in terms of enforcement powers.
                                  you may not have a problem, but it is law in most places to have fresh water in front of any animal at all times, and the most basic and necessary element of care. unless you are nitpicking about semantics. i've NEVER heard of a herd of horses seized as they didn't have a bucket of water while being groomed.

                                  i agree that standards differ, i've also never heard of a group or single horse seized that was in perfect condition, according to ANY standards. i stand by that my horses, in their current state will never be taken from me, no matter how many complaints/conspiracies are afoot. if i became unable to care for them, and couldn't find them care elsewhere, i'd put them down prior to starving or causing them to suffer.

                                  i do accept that there are some ulterior motives in some cases, and some horses seized when perhaps wasn't warranted, HOWEVER, i am tired of hearing that repeated ad nauseum to excuse poor care. if good horsemanship, and care for our animals isn't a good enough reason, fear of being "taken advantage of and bullied" wouldn't be a bad thing if it meant everyone made sure they were looked after.

                                  i do feel for CCH, and can imagine it was hard being in over her head. but i do not understand how any person can let feet get like that, or justify not spending the money to put a suffering horse down whilst still keeping 33 others, whose weekly feed bill would likely be the cost of euthanasia and disposal.

                                  Comment


                                  • There's no horse in perfect condition ANYWHERE. So if that's your standard all of ours should be seized.

                                    Personally, I don't like using "good horsemanship" as a standard because...what does that mean? I consider what some people on here view as basic care to be ridiculously over-the-top and needlessly expensive. OTOH, my next-door neighbors would probably think MY care is a bit overboard (stalled every night, a pro farrier instead of trimming myself, leather instead of nylon halters, etc.) I'm sure they would horrify some people on here. Are the horses suffering? Not by MY standards, even if they're not as pampered as I might do for mine.

                                    or justify not spending the money to put a suffering horse down whilst still keeping 33 others, whose weekly feed bill would likely be the cost of euthanasia and disposal.
                                    So stop feeding the others to save enough to euthanize one? I don't think that's what you MEANT, it's what you implied.

                                    And again--giving them away doesn't pay for the disposal, and there are no buyers. Then what? (Assuming the KB didn't want them.)
                                    Author Page
                                    Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                    Steampunk Sweethearts

                                    Comment


                                    • I was sympathetic until this person tried to brush over the "yearlings that just needed their feet done".

                                      If you have so many that you can't afford to have EVERY horse on a regular 6-8 week farrier schedule, you have a serious problem. Period. That's it, it should never escalate from there.

                                      "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Regala View Post
                                        you may not have a problem, but it is law in most places to have fresh water in front of any animal at all times, and the most basic and necessary element of care. unless you are nitpicking about semantics. i've NEVER heard of a herd of horses seized as they didn't have a bucket of water while being groomed.

                                        i agree that standards differ, i've also never heard of a group or single horse seized that was in perfect condition, according to ANY standards. i stand by that my horses, in their current state will never be taken from me, no matter how many complaints/conspiracies are afoot. if i became unable to care for them, and couldn't find them care elsewhere, i'd put them down prior to starving or causing them to suffer.

                                        i do accept that there are some ulterior motives in some cases, and some horses seized when perhaps wasn't warranted, HOWEVER, i am tired of hearing that repeated ad nauseum to excuse poor care. if good horsemanship, and care for our animals isn't a good enough reason, fear of being "taken advantage of and bullied" wouldn't be a bad thing if it meant everyone made sure they were looked after.

                                        i do feel for CCH, and can imagine it was hard being in over her head. but i do not understand how any person can let feet get like that, or justify not spending the money to put a suffering horse down whilst still keeping 33 others, whose weekly feed bill would likely be the cost of euthanasia and disposal.
                                        Ah, sorry, but precedence proofs you wrong.

                                        Not too long ago a lady got her horses seized. Initially because of the empty water buckets. Yes there is more to it, but I dare not reopen that can of worms. The horses were in just fine condition, as AC had to admit per their own vet tests. The woman still did not get her animals back.

                                        oops. Shoots your theory in the wind.

                                        many, if not most places do not have any minimal care standards.

                                        Comment


                                        • no, my point was, that had she given them away, she'd have the money in one week to pay for the vet. if she'd given half away, would have it in 2 weeks. her feed bill was pretty large.

                                          none of us will ever agree on what is "perfect condition", but if your horses are not grossly underweight, have regular vet/farrier care (no horrific slippper feet), have water and shelter, and you can prove you provide adequate feed and veterinary care, i don't believe your horses will be taken away. if you neglect just one area, you may have a problem. if you have neglected one aspect of horse care, you put yourself at risk.

                                          and no alagirl, you exactly proved my point. pintopiaffe's horses were in ok condition by most of our standards, but she broke the law. MINIMUM standard of care, by LAW, states horses need water 24/7. i think you'd be one of a very few who thinks they don't.

                                          if you really think they would have been seized had nothing else been "going on", i just disagree. in my experience, it is RARELY just one little thing. feet, feed, vet care, water, safe fencing... most herd seizures have multiple issues.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X