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ColoredCowHorse's horses seized?

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  • Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
    yes.....vetrinarian, ferrier, gereatric, handeling...and hoof and mouth care...? Odd spellings and terms from supposed horsemen. That short paragraph is hard to read.

    I thought it was strange when the rescue owner said in the interview that the old horses would have their teeth checked. Just the old ones? That was a red flag for me, but now it's all falling in to place. Lots of red flags.

    Poor horses still aren't in the best place from the looks of it.
    I also find it strange that Shooter's feet are the ones ones posted. The rescue implied that there was more than one horse with slippers, but both in the TV news segment and on the rescue's site it's the same horse.

    Now, I agree that letting that horse's feet get to that point is inexcusable. But you'd think that if the rescue needed a justification/defense/whatever, instead of having their fans post badly-spelled screeds on their FB page they'd just post pictures of the herd. All those very thin and slipper-footed horses they say are in it.
    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

    Comment


    • Just so you are aware....numerous counties in Nevada require a compliance order. Warrants are circumvented by the direct actions of a local sheriff however they do not stand up in court..when the person has the finances to sue, the courts always agree with the demand for a warrant.

      A FAST seizure is usually an illegal seizure. Again, when the individual has money they are repeatedly overturned.

      I am well versed with many of the laws as we have challenged them on behalf of breeders (we do their research for free)

      A warrantless seizure is what is referred to as an Underground Law

      This is where a sheriff has seized without a warrant and has not been challenged. That is now used as a base to proceed in other actions.

      There is a major difference between animal cruelty and animal neglect.

      Cruelty implies the horse must be removed immediately in order to save
      its life. That is the same statute for child apprehenson. If there is perceived neglect a warrant is required to remove from that family/farm or property.

      I have also been told she was denied the right to call a lawyer..When that occurs again..a red flag. The seizing groups NEVER want a lawyer as he/she will immediately block the seizure and will demand a hearing infront of a county judge.

      In the past five years we have noticed a targeted trend by HSUS sponsored rescue groups (DEFHR also) and sheriffs departments to work together. There are about 30 cases going to court throughout the U.S.A. in 2013.

      A compliance order may be extended beyond 48 hours. The owner needs to show intent i.e. have a farrier booked in..vet or tech for dental etc. Bringing in sufficient feed for THIRTY DAYS is also all that is required.

      This woman needs to contact the Cavalier Group...they are a group of lawyers who handle this type of case and yes..they do sue rescues..Big Time....also Sheriffs and counties.

      Read other threads on COTH and you will see the extent of illegal seizures in the U.S.
      The Elephant in the room

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
        Just so you are aware....numerous counties in Nevada require a compliance order. Warrants are circumvented by the direct actions of a local sheriff however they do not stand up in court..when the person has the finances to sue, the courts always agree with the demand for a warrant.

        A FAST seizure is usually an illegal seizure. Again, when the individual has money they are repeatedly overturned.

        I am well versed with many of the laws as we have challenged them on behalf of breeders (we do their research for free)

        A warrantless seizure is what is referred to as an Underground Law

        This is where a sheriff has seized without a warrant and has not been challenged. That is now used as a base to proceed in other actions.

        There is a major difference between animal cruelty and animal neglect.

        Cruelty implies the horse must be removed immediately in order to save
        its life. That is the same statute for child apprehenson. If there is perceived neglect a warrant is required to remove from that family/farm or property.

        I have also been told she was denied the right to call a lawyer..When that occurs again..a red flag. The seizing groups NEVER want a lawyer as he/she will immediately block the seizure and will demand a hearing infront of a county judge.

        In the past five years we have noticed a targeted trend by HSUS sponsored rescue groups (DEFHR also) and sheriffs departments to work together. There are about 30 cases going to court throughout the U.S.A. in 2013.

        A compliance order may be extended beyond 48 hours. The owner needs to show intent i.e. have a farrier booked in..vet or tech for dental etc. Bringing in sufficient feed for THIRTY DAYS is also all that is required.

        This woman needs to contact the Cavalier Group...they are a group of lawyers who handle this type of case and yes..they do sue rescues..Big Time....also Sheriffs and counties.

        Read other threads on COTH and you will see the extent of illegal seizures in the U.S.
        good information and thank you. I was wondering how a seizure minus a warrant could occur without immediate threat to life. I would think usually those who do seizures most often have documented history with that person, in regards to repeated visits/photos/ongoing contact. I thought this was protocol in most places. Of course, it isn't as dramatic as "call the troops! We're going to storm the fortress!" kind of thing so it doesn't get the same media attention.

        Comment


        • HSUS and DEFHR and Queens County LOST a major case in Maryland. The lawsuits will be filed in 2013 and TORT has already been filed.

          It was a classic case of falsifying information, lying under oath, and doing it for training and donations.

          The judge saw evidence to all of the above and basically tossed out abuse and neglect charges. Number of horses impaced 133


          This case was watched by lawyers across the U.S.A. and they now have a precedent to challenge.

          Legal fees were around one half million...This was a very strong woman who stood up to them And was finally able to sell some property that the county had put a restriction on..hoping to force her into a position of bankruptcy.

          Sherrifs overstep their authority because no one challenges them. Rescues and AC MANY TIMES (not always) are involved for the money
          The Elephant in the room

          Comment


          • Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
            good information and thank you. I was wondering how a seizure minus a warrant could occur without immediate threat to life. I would think usually those who do seizures most often have documented history with that person, in regards to repeated visits/photos/ongoing contact. I thought this was protocol in most places. Of course, it isn't as dramatic as "call the troops! We're going to storm the fortress!" kind of thing so it doesn't get the same media attention.
            I think that they may insist that one horse down and dying was cause for immediate action on their part and they would be right.

            Comment


            • Fairfax, Thank you for the information.

              BUT you do not need to point out that various breeders/hoarders/inteveners in hoarding cases are WOMEN over and over again. We all know that there are more women in the horse world than men, so of course there would be more women hitting hard times or getting involved in rescue efforts.

              Look, we all know that you think many women are batsh*t crazy. You don't need to keep throwing it out there; it's just plain TROLLING. (And yes, I am responding to your TROLL because I am annoyed enough.)

              The only breed where I really follow rescue is Morgans, and over half the overbreeding/hoarding cases in the past few years in that breed have had MALE perpetrators. This has included MALE heirs of MALE breeders. The biggest issue in that breed in my opinion is ELDERLY long-time breeders who just do not understand that the market has changed (Morgan foal registrations are down by 2/3 since they peaked about 10 years ago, and prices for all but the most talented show horses, or really sweet trail horses which were never that expensive to start with, are way down.) Or ELDERLY breeders who have gone into nursing homes or died, and the family doesn't know what to do with all their horses.
              You have to have experiences to gain experience.

              1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

              Comment


              • oh please, fairfax. she wasn't "allowed" to call a lawyer? did they lock her up and take away her phone?

                i'm not commenting on wether they should have been seized, or wether it was legal, but don't make stuff up.

                i agree that the one horse who sounds like was clearly in distress may have been cause to seize.

                and i don't think many people here want to have you rehash the wondrous care of the maryland herd. maybe she should have used that half million to, you know, feed her horses rather than sue after the fact.

                i hope the horses all get proper care and good homes, or a peaceful end.

                i hope cch can move forward with her life, and others may learn to do more before things get as bad.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Coanteen View Post
                  They're hilarious in a way, like a bunch of tweens grouping together to built up each other's egos. "So-and-so did this good thing, now I dare anyone to say anything bad about her! I double-dog dare you!"

                  edit: OMG, can they get someone who spells to write their about-us? This is what's on there now:


                  I'd like to assume that a rescue would have seen the word "veterinarian" often enough to know how to spell it. It's not a typo, they misspelled the same way twice.
                  Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                  yes.....vetrinarian, ferrier, gereatric, handeling...and hoof and mouth care...? Odd spellings and terms from supposed horsemen. That short paragraph is hard to read.

                  I thought it was strange when the rescue owner said in the interview that the old horses would have their teeth checked. Just the old ones? That was a red flag for me, but now it's all falling in to place. Lots of red flags.

                  Poor horses still aren't in the best place from the looks of it.
                  Well, thank God someone else sees a problem and it's not just me being squirrely about this rescue. I read quite a bit about them and, from my perspective, I don't think we're talking about a whole lot of true horsepeople here. If you know the other side of the story, as we know it, you know there is some parsing of the rescue's words to make it look like they are saving the day and the horses. That gets people inflamed who never think to look at the other side of the coin. Lots of that goin' on, it seems.

                  Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                  Just so you are aware....numerous counties in Nevada require a compliance order. Warrants are circumvented by the direct actions of a local sheriff however they do not stand up in court..when the person has the finances to sue, the courts always agree with the demand for a warrant.

                  A FAST seizure is usually an illegal seizure. Again, when the individual has money they are repeatedly overturned.

                  I am well versed with many of the laws as we have challenged them on behalf of breeders (we do their research for free)

                  A warrantless seizure is what is referred to as an Underground Law

                  This is where a sheriff has seized without a warrant and has not been challenged. That is now used as a base to proceed in other actions.

                  There is a major difference between animal cruelty and animal neglect.

                  Cruelty implies the horse must be removed immediately in order to save
                  its life. That is the same statute for child apprehenson. If there is perceived neglect a warrant is required to remove from that family/farm or property.

                  I have also been told she was denied the right to call a lawyer..When that occurs again..a red flag. The seizing groups NEVER want a lawyer as he/she will immediately block the seizure and will demand a hearing infront of a county judge.

                  In the past five years we have noticed a targeted trend by HSUS sponsored rescue groups (DEFHR also) and sheriffs departments to work together. There are about 30 cases going to court throughout the U.S.A. in 2013.

                  A compliance order may be extended beyond 48 hours. The owner needs to show intent i.e. have a farrier booked in..vet or tech for dental etc. Bringing in sufficient feed for THIRTY DAYS is also all that is required.

                  This woman needs to contact the Cavalier Group...they are a group of lawyers who handle this type of case and yes..they do sue rescues..Big Time....also Sheriffs and counties.

                  Read other threads on COTH and you will see the extent of illegal seizures in the U.S.
                  The above is nearly exactly what happened in the case I referenced which was local to me. The HS swooped in with these ladies, along with the sheriff's department, took the horses and was going to save the world. They got smacked by the OR AG's office and the sheriff's department had to back down, big time.
                  GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by quietann View Post
                    Fairfax, Thank you for the information.

                    BUT you do not need to point out that various breeders/hoarders/inteveners in hoarding cases are WOMEN over and over again. We all know that there are more women in the horse world than men, so of course there would be more women hitting hard times or getting involved in rescue efforts.

                    Look, we all know that you think many women are batsh*t crazy. You don't need to keep throwing it out there; it's just plain TROLLING. (And yes, I am responding to your TROLL because I am annoyed enough.)
                    I might be reading Fairfax's posts incorrectly, but I didn't get any implication that "women are batsh*t crazy". I think (again, I could be wrong), that Fairfax is pointing out that women seem to be disproportionately targeted for this kind of prosecution. Especially single, older women who may not have the knowledge, means, or network to defend themselves.

                    I think Fairfax is saying that women are being unfairly targeted, not that women are all crazypants.
                    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
                    -George Morris

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
                      I might be reading Fairfax's posts incorrectly, but I didn't get any implication that "women are batsh*t crazy". I think (again, I could be wrong), that Fairfax is pointing out that women seem to be disproportionately targeted for this kind of prosecution. Especially single, older women who may not have the knowledge, means, or network to defend themselves.

                      I think Fairfax is saying that women are being unfairly targeted, not that women are all crazypants.
                      That's how I took it.

                      I just checked the Chip-In thing, they are up a whole $75 as of a few minutes ago. They are gonna need a WHOLE lot more than that!! Also, someone asked if someone has too many horses, they are considered a hoarder, then what does it make a rescue who takes on a bunch of horses?? I'm interested to read the response when it comes...
                      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
                        That's how I took it.

                        I just checked the Chip-In thing, they are up a whole $75 as of a few minutes ago. They are gonna need a WHOLE lot more than that!! Also, someone asked if someone has too many horses, they are considered a hoarder, then what does it make a rescue who takes on a bunch of horses?? I'm interested to read the response when it comes...
                        And the answer was a peach hoarder . But really that the difference between hoarding and rescues is the quality of care - and if they expect to get real help from this chipin fundraising business than good luck considering there's only 78 members in the group and the "rescue" doesn't have a real website
                        My OTTB and Finger Lakes Finest, Sunny Boy 'n Ben E and the old man, Salvator.

                        Check out Second Chance Thoroughbreds and like us on Facebook!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Regala View Post
                          oh please, fairfax. she wasn't "allowed" to call a lawyer? did they lock her up and take away her phone?

                          i'm not commenting on wether they should have been seized, or wether it was legal, but don't make stuff up.

                          i agree that the one horse who sounds like was clearly in distress may have been cause to seize.

                          and i don't think many people here want to have you rehash the wondrous care of the maryland herd. maybe she should have used that half million to, you know, feed her horses rather than sue after the fact.

                          i hope the horses all get proper care and good homes, or a peaceful end.

                          i hope cch can move forward with her life, and others may learn to do more before things get as bad.
                          We hafve numerous cases where the Sheriff has told them they must go to their home and stay out of the way. They have also been asked if they have a home line and if so have been told NOT TO USE IT...and they have also taken the cell phones..They are told IF they call a lawyer they will immediately be put under arrest and slammed in jail.

                          It is ALL about intimidation.

                          Too bad you appear to know nothing about the Canterbury case. This was an example WITH WITNESSES from both sides who said the lady was threatened

                          We NEVER think things like this happen to good people. We also never think they will happen to us.

                          They do.
                          The Elephant in the room

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
                            They may have all their ducks in a row and the cat's meow, for all I know, but, since all rescues are supposed to be full and this one shows up, even five hours away, I think we're gonna hear about them in the coming months...Winter is coming on, yanno.
                            I don't know this group and am not defending them. I'm probably more jaded and suspicious than most of you (having been at seizures of horses from people claiming to run a 'rescue').

                            However - we don't know how many open spaces any given rescue has out there.

                            These people might be able to handle a herd of 30, although that does take considerable money and time. The last time we took in that many at once was in 2009, followed by another group of 10 or so, and then we had to stop taking in horses for a while. Just the routine vet work on 30 horses is considerable (vaccinations, coggins, dental, geldings).

                            Then again, this group might be one of the many 'rescues' who can't say no but then cannot provide for the horses they care for. I don't know...

                            I just wanted to point out that it wasn't fair really to not trust them because they took in a sizable group of horses. What they say and do and how they care for those horses in the future... those will be the telling factors...
                            Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                            Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rainechyldes View Post
                              Ladies and Gentlemen....On behalf of NNER....
                              Regarding the horses in Fallon:
                              ...were you there? NO
                              ...did you see the conditions they were living in? I DOUBT IT, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN APPAULED.
                              ...did you know that one of the horses had to go to Heaven because he was so emaciated and could barely get up because he was stuck in his own waste? (By the way, he was only 8 or 9 years old according to the vet.) NO
                              ...did you know the horse were eating their own waste just to get SOMETHING to eat? NO
                              ...you saw, in the pictures, the feet...those were the feet on the yearlings...did you actually see the rest of the animal? hmmm I would say NO
                              I DID AND I WAS SICKENED!

                              These horses were not illegally taken nor were they illegally placed with NNER. You all are sitting there at your keyboard making assumptions and taking the word of one of two people....I WAS THERE.

                              So, before you go casting your 2 bit opinions on a genuine rescue group and not some back yard hoarder or a horse trader I suggest you do your homework....ok? Yeah, like that's going to happen.

                              Ok, ignore my previous post. No professional organization posts comments like this on their Facebook. There may have been times when I WANTED to have a screaming tirade. That's when I call a friend, have the screaming tirade to them, and get it out of my system. Then I can stick with the facts in my written and spoken communication about the rescue.

                              *sigh* Why is the ideal of professionalism such a hard one?
                              Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                              Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                              Comment


                              • I am just hoping they have the money to deal with such a large group of horses.. since according to the news, they only got them because they agreed to foot all the bills for the entire herd.

                                (which isn't that.. rare? Honest question here - since I don't know how its handled in the states.)

                                when we take in actual seized horses - we upfront the costs of initial rehab, but we do get reimbursed once the dust settles by various agencies and/or court ordered payments by the original owner etc.
                                Originally posted by ExJumper
                                Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by cowgirljenn View Post
                                  Ok, ignore my previous post. No professional organization posts comments like this on their Facebook. There may have been times when I WANTED to have a screaming tirade. That's when I call a friend, have the screaming tirade to them, and get it out of my system. Then I can stick with the facts in my written and spoken communication about the rescue.

                                  *sigh* Why is the ideal of professionalism such a hard one?
                                  LOL, I sure would like to know what your pillow does! (not really, I would probably blush and I don't do that normally)

                                  Professionalism? HA!
                                  Originally posted by BigMama1
                                  Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                  GNU Terry Prachett

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by rainechyldes View Post
                                    I am just hoping they have the money to deal with such a large group of horses.. since according to the news, they only got them because they agreed to foot all the bills for the entire herd.

                                    (which isn't that.. rare? Honest question here - since I don't know how its handled in the states.)

                                    when we take in actual seized horses - we upfront the costs of initial rehab, but we do get reimbursed once the dust settles by various agencies and/or court ordered payments by the original owner etc.
                                    It varies a lot here. We get no funding from the city, county, state, or federal government for the services we offer (I say that now because I've recently been ranted at that someone didn't like how we were spending their tax dollars... we're not getting them!).

                                    In SOME cases, if the case goes to court, the JP on the case will order the owner to pay some kind of restitution. Almost always the restitution is only for the costs of the seizure (gas to get there, or some kind of fee per horse for hauling), costs of veterinary evaluation and any veterinary care that was immediately needed (most times we do Coggins before court because some courts here want to see them), costs of preparing for and attending court (printing documents/photos, gas to get to court), and the costs of the care of the horses during their 10-35 day holding period before court.

                                    I can think of just ONE case in 14 years where the county attorney also asked for the costs of rehabbing the horse for 3-6 months as well. In that case, the owner and county attorney came to an agreement before court was over and we received no restitution at all (but the owner agreed to surrender the horse and not face criminal court).

                                    When we are awarded restitution, we normally don't see it. The owners cannot afford to pay it, and we cannot afford to fight to get it. So often every penny of our costs are paid by us (made possible through donations and our fundraisers).
                                    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                      LOL, I sure would like to know what your pillow does! (not really, I would probably blush and I don't do that normally)
                                      Ha! The poor pillow is lucky I don't tear it to shreds somedays... (or some nights)...
                                      Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                      Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Another colt from CCH

                                        http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...29280233_n.jpg

                                        http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...49823944_n.jpg

                                        http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...89399780_n.jpg

                                        http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...69332951_n.jpg
                                        K-N-S Farm
                                        Daily Goat Videos & Pictures
                                        Website | Facebook | Youtube

                                        Comment


                                        • Whoever that colt is, it's in pretty bad shape. I'm honestly hoping he gets the help he needs - and not feeling good about that prospect where he's landed.

                                          Comment

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