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Cavel horse slaughter plant is trying to rebuild plant in DeKalb ILL

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  • On the pet food front - I won't say I know much about it other than the local situation.

    The local situation is that the pet food rendering plants don't slaughter. None that I know of at least. They render - they take already dead animals.

    I don't know if that is the only situation nationwide - I just know that is the only situation I have heard of re: horses and pet food.

    Comment


    • I hope they're not using rendered animals for pet food unless they're talking about boiled down to individual molecules - otherwise your dog or cat is ingesting euthanasia solution and who knows what else.

      Come to think of it, there was a big to-do not long ago where a rendering plant that took in euthanized dogs and cats from the local animal shelter sold its end product to pet food companies.
      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

      Comment


      • THe euthanasia solution and other "contaminants" comes up from time to time in pet food discusssions. I think some university did a study on the survival of the pheno through processing. But I do not know of any horse slaughter directly for pet food purposes (not saying that it does not exist - I just don't know of any) and the horse rendering around here is frequently euthanized horses. Not all (or even most, here) go for pet food though. There are other uses - paint thinner is one that for some reason comes to mind. It's been a long time.

        The premium pet foods make the arguments about reading labels for things like "meat" and byproduct bc of the things that do go into some pet foods, particularly small companies/low$ brands. We have a huge streetfestival here in Oct, I think it's the second largest in the country. All the fried food booths have the used grease stored in vats and when the festival is over a pet food processor picks up most of the old rancid grease. That is just a whole nother topic - a read your labels/know your company kind of topic.

        On the stats front, was it Will Rogers or Mark Twain or neither who said, "there are lies, d*mn lies and statistics"?

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:



          The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is represented as "the most reversed" circuit of federal courts. This is true - if you go by number of cases.

          Of course, the Ninth Circuit is by far the largest circuit, hearing more cases than any other circuit.

          Percentage wise, the Ninth Circuit was overturned 75% of the time. Four other circuits were overturned 100% of the time. (And here in this number is another shady number - because one circuit had only one case heard.) The average across all 80 cases heard by the Supreme Court was 73% reversals.

          On the other hand, if you did the math comparing the number of cases in total heard vs. appealed across all courts, you find that the Supreme Court is somewhat more likely to hear a 9th Circuit case. Of course, there are many reasons that could make this so, from the different makeup of the courts to the fact that you would naturally expect a lot more interesting cases to come from large population and legal centers like Los Angeles and San Francisco, than say, Fargo, North Dakota. And this is just the snapshot of one year's worth of cases.
          )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          True enough.

          However, if you ask the question "How many cases did the 9th Circuit Court hear in 1999, 2000, and 2001?" And the record shows that the 9th Circuit Court heard 100 cases in 1999, 50 cases in 2000, and 20 cases in 2001, and then stated that the number of cases heard by the 9th Circuit Court has been on the decline during the time period - that's what is a little difficult to manipulate - any way you want to put a slant on it.

          Two Toofs
          (formerly - but still - NDANO)

          Comment


          • Of course, if you used those declining numbers of cases to claim that the incidence of lawsuits was on the decline (or somesuch thing... forgive me, I have little to no knowledge of the legal system and don't really know what a circuit court does! ) without having any other support for that argument... then I'd say you were putting a slant on it. Might be true, might not be... there's just not enough info to tell.

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mbp:

              The premium pet foods make the arguments about reading labels for things like "meat" and byproduct bc of the things that do go into some pet foods, particularly small companies/low$ brands. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I believe labeling laws require that any "meat byproduct" that is not a by-product of either cattle, hogs, sheep or goats must be labeled as such. In other words, "horsemeat" or "horsemeat byproduct" would need to appear on the label. Very few, if any, pet foods use horsemeat these days. Beef and beef by-products are actually much less expensive than horsemeat.

              References:

              http://www.purina.com/cats/nutrition.asp?article=283

              http://www.petfoodreport.com/

              http://www.legis.state.il.us/commiss...00B01400R.html (This is as it is written in IL, most states, if not all, have the same wording - check your state for details)

              http://www.usaweekend.com/03_issues/...16petfood.html
              "The Pet Food Institute in Washington, D.C., reports that the days of horsemeat are long gone; pets are eating stuff made from the same crops and animals raised to feed us."

              Two Toofs
              (formerly - but still - NDANO)

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
                Of course, if you used those declining numbers of cases to claim that the incidence of lawsuits was on the decline (or somesuch thing... forgive me, I have little to no knowledge of the legal system and don't really know what a circuit court does! ) without having any other support for that argument... then I'd say you were putting a slant on it. Might be true, might not be... there's just not enough info to tell.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                True enough again. But if you asked how "How many lawsuits were filed in the US each year for the years 1999, 2000 and 2001?" And the answers, by record, were 120,300,212, 503,234 and 243,203 - then yes, they are on the decline.

                So if you ask "How many horses are slaughtered in the US over the past decade and are the numbers on the rise or decline?", then the numbers show it for themselves. If you want to delve further and say "but how many are exported to Canada or Canada for each of those years as well", same thing - look at the numbers. The numbers are cold hard fact. The numbers of horses slaughtered and exported for slaughter are factual numbers, same thing. You can make of the "whys" whatever you'd like, but the numbers are concrete. And they have dropped dramatically over the past decade.

                Two Toofs
                (formerly - but still - NDANO)

                Comment


                • Like poltroon said, it gets tricky when the real world infringes on pat little theories. That's why certain people are paid the big bucks.

                  Yes, it seems as though supply has dwindled in North America, and it appears that demand may be declining, but by that paper's own words, not enough to explain the drop off in NA numbers. That leads one to think there is simply another source meeting the demand. So what are the numbers for Belorus, Romania, Poland, Australia and many of the other 160+ nations that share the planet with us?

                  Sometimes the laws of unintended consequences are a bitch. Does anyone want to take bets on whether Romania has dedicated any time to legislating this issue? If we take this to the purely theoretical level, are US horses entitled to more than horses behind the former Iron Curtain?

                  As for that decline in NA numbers, maybe the precipitous drop off in the last 10 years just might have something to do with the fact that horses are generally a luxury item, and luxury items do well in good economies and not so well in bad economies. To me it would seem perfectly logical that fewer horses would end up at bottom price in a good economy, if for no other reason than the increased disposable income to keep them at home. So maybe the market dropped off here, but there is still good old Belorus, with its plethora of horse slaughter plants to pick up the slack.

                  And guess what? The bubble has burst, the economy tanked, and it looks like a long time before things rebound. Kind of makes you wonder what the effects of that will be on NA supply? Maybe an early hint is in the USDA numbers for horses headed to Mexico. The YTD numbers are up from last year. Now 2 points on a map does not a trend make, but it's worth keeping an eye on them all the same before closing the door on the idea that supply is in any kind of permanent decline in NA.

                  And even if slaughter for human consumption is banned, that still leaves rendering plants because they aren't going anyplace. Assuming rendering plants are not in the business of slaughtering animals and can only accept dead animals, if there is an available supply of unwanted animals, they will still end up there. And this doesn't mean just those that were euthanized from age or illness (I'm guessing right now all those too small/poor horses end up at rendering plants). Given that the profitability of a rendering plant is not driven by the meat/weight yield on a horse, presumably the agents who will buy, transport and hold these unwanted animals will not have the same driving economic concerns to keep them comfortable, in good weight and with water and shelter. Not to mention that if horses were not allowed to be killed on the premises of the rendering plant, one suspects these horses might be killed at the agent's holding facility then transported to the rendering plant (you don't think he's going to have the vet come out and euthanize them, do you?) So it could very well move froma moderately regulated process to an unregulated process. And still, someone, somewhere will be meeting demand for horse meat.

                  Call your village. Their idiot is missing...
                  Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                  Comment


                  • Couple points:

                    I have worked for three different premium pet food companies over the past 10 years. None of them use horsemeat. I have spoken with representatives of most of the other foods, they do not use horsemeat either. I have read lots of labels of all the competition. Regular pet food does not contain horsemeat. It is mostly chicken, or the more generic poultry. This is cheaper and more nutritionally consistent.

                    There are a few specialty companies that you probably have to special order at this point that do include horsemeat. But it is a premium product for a very small market. The average pet owner does not want to feed horsemeat to Spot or Fluffy. I have seen exactly one brand of canned horsemeat, prominantly labeled as such, in one feed store. The manager told me they had some hunters who wanted it.

                    When California banned out-of-state transport of horses for slaughter, horse thefts were cut in half.

                    The numbers in Canada have also been dropping, as has the number of operating slaughterhouses there. If we ban it, they will follow. From what I have read, the Europeans don't think much of the procedures at the Mexican plants. But HR 857 will also ban the export of live horses for slaughter.

                    When there are no killer buyers, rescue groups will not need to bid up the prices to save horses. Their acquisition costs will go down, and they can spend their limited funds in other areas.

                    Average horse owners who fall on hard times can donate their horses to various groups and get a tax write-off. Commercial breeders who need slaughter prices to help their bottom line need to find a new business.

                    Comment


                    • It seems to me production is not going down.

                      It looks as though we are sending more via Canada,thus lowering our figures.



                      World horsemeat figures.

                      fernie fox
                      "I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".
                      \"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound\".

                      Comment


                      • Still... the sources stated throughout the article are pretty vague-- even the information in the Appendices is vague as to where it came from--- albeit not presented in the traditional way means to me quite a bit more than seeing some vague reference to a source which is not presented in a manner where anyone in the world can look up the study or article to cross reference and check for accuracy. I read the entire paper no less than three times before I even made my initial post. Call me a stickler for details, but any true academic (and even not so academic) paper knows to properly cite and create documentation so that a reader can research the information in question on their own.

                        Numbers can be skewn and slanted similar to what poltroon suggested in her post. It depends on what the organization wants to highlight and show. For example, interestingly enough when Hurricane Isabel was making her way here many people in my neck of the wood were talking about Hurricane Andrew and the severity of that storm. One coworker of mine had read several articles talking about the deaths caused by Hurricane Andrew and the deaths that were "written" officially in the news. A few of the articles he had read were done by people who were emergency workers, residents, and health care workers in the area affected by Andrew--- who said they knew that there were more than just the official records of deaths and casualties.. however.. not all deaths were directly attributed to Hurricane Andrew.. ie.. in other words not to go off on an extreme tangent.. but numbers are only as accurate as who or what reports them. Kind of like my barn manager who worked in a morgue during Vietnam and who would hear reports about the causalities during a given week being only say.. 10 when he knew he had had over 25 victims come through his door.

                        And as I said in the beginning.. I am still highly distrustful of any paper written by a marketing company for an organization who has a defined voice on the issue of horse slaughter. It would be like my mother's Bible Study group asking for a white paper to be crafted on why prayer is detrimental to kids in school. They have a defined goal and seeking credence to their agenda (not saying this is wrong nor right) they are surely not going to invest in a paper which dispells or does not support their agenda. And this is not just about horse slaughter but can be said the same of any interest group.

                        Regardless to me, it still amazes me that similar to what Erin said.. the NIMB syndrom(hopefully I got that right). So we get everyone to change their minds about horse slaughter... which yes could affect supply--- even though demand will still be around... so the horses just come from some other country... so as long as we do not see Dobbin go to a slaugherhouse then we can pretend that Dobbin in another part of the world is not befalling the same fate? To me that is ludicrous and hypocritical. But I guess it is an out of sight out of mind type issue.
                        Christina

                        Comment


                        • Thanks fernie fox... for the link.. but does it not pique anyone's interest that for several countries exportation or production was the exact same statistical number as the year before.. for a period of seven years? (ie. Mexico had the same numbers for 4 years and then 3-- Canada the same numbers for 6 years, etc). I would like to know their margin of error..or how they calculated these numbers.

                          Christina

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:
                            It looks as though we are sending more via Canada,thus lowering our figures.
                            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Fernie Fox, look back a few pages. I posted the exact figures by number of horses exported from the US to Canada in the past several years. Numbers are going down, not up.

                            Two Toofs
                            (formerly - but still - NDANO)

                            Comment


                            • "Not In My Backyard"

                              There are plenty of things that happen in foreign countries that we would never allow to happen in the US. Because someone does something in their backyard, doesn't mean that you are justified in doing it in your own backyard. Set an example. And make sure that your own house is clean before you go knocking the neighbors for doing the same thing.

                              Other countries slaughter Fido. We don't slaughter Fido here so that Fido's in Thailand are saved from being slaughtered.

                              As far as the White Paper is concerned, anyone here is free to research the facts and refute them. Just because the paper was commissioned by the TRF doesn't mean it's patently false or skewed. The TRF has a stellar reputation and commissioning a paper to support their cause is not exactly a shocking revelation. Anyone is free to do their own research, and is encouraged to do so. If anyone can refute any of the facts as presented in the paper, I'd love to read the findings. For myself, the findings are very much in line with what I've learned in my own research, so naturally I agree very much with it.

                              For what its worth, I too used to wonder "what would happen to all the horses" and very grudgingly wonder if it wasn't actually a 'neccessity'. Until I sat down and began to investigate, looking for evidence based in fact, not emotion or propaganda.

                              Two Toofs
                              (formerly - but still - NDANO)

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Just a note to let all that are interested in the outcome of the vigil held at Hopkins park in DeKalb,ILL.

                                It was a huge sucess!!

                                Regards,Rose

                                Comment


                                • [QUOTE]Originally posted by mbp:
                                  That is just a whole nother topic - a read your labels/know your company kind of topic.QUOTE]

                                  Which is why my dogs get home-cooked meals. I have no idea what 'meat by-product meal' is. Folks REALLY need to read the labels and watch what they're putting into their animals bodies.

                                  www.foalcams.com
                                  "Wherever man has left his footprint in the long ascent from barbarism to civilization, we will find the hoofprint of the horse beside it." ~John Moore

                                  Comment


                                  • OdieRose, by "Huge success" do you mean that the vigil turnout has made it likely the plant will not reopen? Without a hint of sarcasm on my part, that's the only outcome I would think you'd qualify as successful.

                                    Truly, I'm interested in how you qualify this "success". I run a girl scout camp in western Kane County, so this plant is quite literally in my backyard. I don't necessarily believe that I'm on the no-plant bandwagon, but am curious-- by "successful", do you simply mean that a lot of people showed up?

                                    LML

                                    *MidWest/Chicago Clique*
                                    "With mirth and laughter, let old wrinkles come" (Shakespeare).

                                    Comment


                                    • I am curious to what you mean by "success" as I was under the impression the company was building and continuing on with it despite the fact protesters have been out there the entire time.
                                      "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Like I mentioned,it was a sucess,many people attended,it may not of shut down the plant,but it brought out awareness in the community,nearby the propossed plant is a new sub, now they do know that Cavels permit can be revoked under sec 14.006.Many locals attended,3 news stations and 5 newspapers.

                                        Regards,Rose

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by odierose:
                                          now they do know that Cavels permit can be revoked under sec 14.006.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          And sorry to be ignorant again, but what does that ordinance or whatever it is say that they can revoke the permit??
                                          "I'm not crazy...my mother had me tested"

                                          Comment

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