• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Abe's Home! :) re: Plainoleabe pg. 16

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Unfortunately for us, I believe the horse must be sound in order to GET the insurance, other than "specified perils", which I did get for Eloquent.

    If someone has an insurance carrier that will commence coverage with major medical on an injured/unsound horse, please let me know!

    Continued Jingles for Abe!
    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

    Comment


    • Duffy, I think you are correct. I know when I checked for Bugs, they would not cover her knee because it was pre-existing. I REALLY need to get Frodo insured...PRONTO!
      ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
      *Bugs 5/86-3/10 OTTB Mare* RIP lovely Lady, I miss you
      *Frodo '03 Anglo Trakehner Gelding*
      My Facebook

      Comment


      • Fessy's mom, I just wanted to apologize cause I said I was going to send what I could for the vet bill and unfortunately my little Mini Dachshund managed to poke himself in the eye and he now has an ulcerated eye. So I have another vet visit this week, after that, I might have some cash left over. I just didn't want you to think I was some sort of loser by saying I would send money and not do it.

        Hope all is well
        Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

        Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.

        Comment


        • Oh no, poor Abe Do you have a good University Vet school close? It might be worth getting a vet school opinion and price quote for treatment.

          In my experience, the vets schools can actually be cheaper sometimes than private vets or private clinics. I know that when my first mare went in for tumor biopsies they had her all day, had numerous vets working on her, had to put her under to do a surgical biopsy and care for her when she started coming to again. The entire day cost us less than the biopsies she had had at home.

          This may or may not be the case, but it might be worth investigating.

          More hugs and jingles are all I can offer, but they are headed your way from FL.
          ~ hunt_jump ~

          http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

          Comment


          • Fessy's Mom, I really sorry to hear this new development. If I understand correctly, treating him at home is not longer working. Thus your only option in continuing treatment is to take him to a vet hospital. If a vet hospital gets the infection under control, at that point whether or not to do surgery for the fractures would be considered. I'll not sure if the infection appears to be getting better, but treating at home is getting difficult. Or there appears to no change in the infection, or it's simply holding steady but home treatment is no longer ideal.

            So, it seems you could:

            One: Put him down now
            Two: Take him to the hospital and continue treatment for the infection
            Three: If the hospital can't bring the infection under control, put him down at the hospital
            Four: If the hospital brings the infection under control, then decide whether or not to do the surgery

            I hope the above doesn't sound direct or harsh. The above is to make sure I understand the situation correctly. And also sometimes it helps me to have someone repeat what they think I said.

            But, before I freaked myself out too much with decision overload, I would collect some more information. Tomorrow morning I would call the hospital and ask them to tell you, as near as they can, what their potential bill might be. And ask for some outcome statistics if possible. Including the possible future surgery with outcome statistics. I would also call your vets, ask them to expediate the new sample, as well as for them to call the lab and request a rush result.

            Then I would sit down with my husband and really crunch some numbers and possible outcomes. If I were in your situation I would be seriously considering euthansia at this point. But I don't say that to pressure you, simply to be honest in admitting I might make that tough decision.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Thank you everyone.

              cowboylogic - that sounds exactly what I'm going through now. Like they say, hindsight is 20/20.

              Cashela - please! no apologies! whatever you can do is just fine.

              Bea - you're right the most practical thing to do at this point is to put him down. But I'm not a very practical person where my horses and the responsibilities that go along with them are concerned. I'm not so foolish as to kid myself into thinking that I wasn't the one who put myself in this situation in the hopes that just treating the joint infection would do the trick with this horse. I was certainly hoping that a month of stall rest and some antibiotics would do the trick. But it hasn't. And don't worry, you're not being too harsh.

              However, if after I speak with the vet at the clinic and they feel his prognosis is poor even with surgery, then it becomes much easier to make that horrible decision. As impractical as I may be acting to some, I am NOT one of those people who prolongs an animal's life to make myself feel better. If he's never going to be sound and comfortable, then putting him down is the best solution.

              But, my optimistic side says that won't be the case. He's happy, he's bright-eyed, and aside from the knee being sore (which is certainly what you'd expect) you wouldn't know anything was wrong with him if you saw him. If he starts to act miserable, then of course that will factor into my decision.

              Hell, although we haven't gotten the full test results for the cultures yet, the preliminary results were negative, his temp is normal, and the vet commented that his knee isn't as warm as it was a week ago. He may not even HAVE an infection. It may just be that the injury is fresh and it HURTS!

              Holy crap, what a rollercoaster this has been.
              I would like to think I will die an heroic death...

              But it's more likely I'll trip over my dog and choke on a spoonful of frosting.

              Comment


              • Duffy...no I didnt mean get insurance after the fact Sometimes insurance is overlooked unless the horses are expensive...so all I was suggesting is that in any situation where you can get coverage enough to get major medical...its a good idea
                Cowboy Logic, Walk In The Park, Blue, Jacob & Missy- and now Junior and Betty too!
                www.theplaidhorse.com

                Comment


                • Oh *&%$ So sorry to hear things are not going well. Jingles and hugs for both Fessy's Mom and Abe.

                  Comment


                  • Fessy's Mom - I should not cost you more (in fact maybe a little less) to take to a hospital or clinic for a joint flush if you can get him there and back in a day. As an out patient you can avoid the daily charges which is what adds up so fast.

                    The main thing is to get those culture results! You need to know what you are trying to kill so you are not wasting money on the wrong antibiotics.

                    I will say again, don't worry about the chips yet until you know if you can get the joint calmed down.

                    Call around and get your ship in price quotes for the joint flush and cultures. Get a quote for Xrays while you are at it, but just for reference for now. Tell them you will *consider* laser surgery *if* there is a reasonable chance for full recovery and *if* the cost is reasonable. Hopefully this will get the surgical vets interested enough to get directly involved even if you are only in the clinic for a few hours. The more vets you have nosing around his case the better!

                    Hang in there, take a deep breath and let us know how it goes. And ask your current vet to work with you and ut you a break on her bills. She just might.

                    SCFarm
                    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

                    www.southern-cross-farm.com

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fessy's Mom:
                      Oh, she's been sedating him. The problem is she's been giving him so much she's afraid he's going to fall over if she gives him any more. And this is even with a local.

                      I just think the knee is so sore that he's just not going to tolerate it right now.

                      BUT, he's still moving around fine with only slight lameness at the walk and is eating and pooping just like a normal happy horse. *thank goodness*. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Ummmm, last month when Petey's hock swelled up to 5x normal size the vet went into the joint 3x: to get fluid for a culture, to inject Adequan directly into the joint and to draw off 30 cc's of fluid. Petey never twitched a muscle -- he couldn't with the cocktail the vet gave him.

                      That said, I ask my vet the same kind of questions you asked your vet and I would not be happy with the answers you have gotten.

                      I would also not pay for today's visit since, had the paperwork been submitted in a timely fashion, the results of the culture would have been in and the necessity of a second flushing would have been known.

                      Bottom line, I might be looking for a different vet...
                      "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                      Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump

                      Comment


                      • Abe sounds like a dear and not in pain at the moment. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes although I've an OTTB with reoccurring EPM and sometimes I wonder.....

                        It sounds like at least a phone call to a university/clinic is in order.

                        Whatever your decision, I'm sure it will be the best for Abe.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          Lord Helpus - you sound just like my husband.

                          Just to clarify a bit, and I don't know how they do it with a hock, but in order to flush the knee, (this is from what my vet told me) the joint spaces are so small that the knee has to be bent during the procedure. So what we've been doing is lifting his leg and resting it on a few flakes of hay while she puts the needles in and with me holding the leg still. The chips are on the inside of the right knee so that needle is the one she's having trouble with. The other side goes right in. Adding to the trouble is the fact that he's drugged to the gills and can hardly stand anyway and then we take one of his legs away from him. Just not a good situation any way you look at it.

                          On a good note, I began wrapping the knee last night and this morning the swelling was significantly less.

                          *FM kicks herself for not starting this sooner*

                          The hospital will call me to schedule a consult once they get the films, hopefully by tomorrow. Thanks guys.
                          I would like to think I will die an heroic death...

                          But it's more likely I'll trip over my dog and choke on a spoonful of frosting.

                          Comment


                          • I had a three or four year old mare break one of the little bones on the outside of her right knee. One little round bone fractured into 3 pieces, too small for any type of pin. We kept her leg wrapped from top to bottom and did so for months--don't remember how many, but she became used to being in the stable by herself and rather enjoyed it. She is fine now, just had her second foal and her new owner is so anxious to get the foal weaned so she can start riding her again!! She is a big movning warmblood, 16-3, and is moves completely sound.
                            http://www.talloaksfarm.net ---"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill

                            Comment


                            • Hang in there. I do know the feeling of slapping yourself on the forehead with a big "duh." I just started wrapping my mare's legs this week and FINALLY her hematoma is going down a TINY little bit. Well, gee, maybe if I started that 2 weeks ago when she came home from training it might have speeded things up!

                              Hopefully you will get some good news (or at least a hopeful prognosis) from the clinic!

                              Comment


                              • Fessy's Mom, I don't want to secong guess your vet. She's there on site, and has a much better feel for what's happening. As do you.

                                IF the cultures come back negative, first of all congratulate yourselves becuase it's not easy to get a clean culture sample uncontaminated by the normal bacteria on the skin. Good prep work!

                                I wonder if Abe had an injection of anything, like hyaluronic acid, into his knee while still at the track. Can you contact his vet from the track or his former trainer to find out? If so, it might be possible that he's having a localized reaction to that substance: what they call a flare. This would be more unusual than an infection, but would be a consideration IF the cultures come back negative. I'm not sure how the treatment would differ, but it might be worth talking to your vet about it.

                                FM, I think you and your husband are absolutely wonderful! Hang in there, and I'm so very glad Abe is with you, brighteyed and happy.
                                They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  Okay. Right now I am SO obligated to announce to the world how wonderful my husband is.

                                  Sweetie that he is, especially being home sick for the third day from a cold I gave him he just got off the phone with the Rochester Clinic. They gave him a price range for the surgery which would include the hospital stay (a week!) and all the joint care that would be necessary during that time including flushes, etc. He told me that if after they review the films and they feel he is a good candidate for the surgery that we will go ahead and schedule it! Is he the best or what?

                                  Now the waiting begins. He's calling our current clinic now to make sure they get those films out today. Yay! Everyone cross their fingers and jingle their curb chains that Abe is a good candidate for surgery.


                                  frugalannie - you may be on to something with the acid injection in the knee. I'll try to get ahold of Dr. Hanelt and see if she has any record or memory of what she did to his knee. He originally injured it over Labor Day weekend. The trainer had her "work on him" to get him ready to race again the next weekend. That may be what she did for him. I'll ask her if there's any chance he could have had a reaction to it.
                                  I would like to think I will die an heroic death...

                                  But it's more likely I'll trip over my dog and choke on a spoonful of frosting.

                                  Comment


                                  • FM - I'm jingling for you, your wonderful husband and Abe!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • Your husband rocks!!! Today is payday so I will send a check out to your attention today. Do you still want me to make it out to the large animal clinic or wait and see about Rochester? I will make it out directly to you if you want. It doesn't matter to me.

                                      I know you were trying to defray costs but sometimes a large clinic can be cheaper in the long run because they have the equipment and facilities to run all the tests themselves. My old guy had cellulitis in the spring and my farm vet had xrayed him and thought there was a fracture. I hauled him to Rood and Riddle and there was no fracture, just a calcification shadow on the xray. The vet there also pulled fluid from his knee to make sure there was no infection in the joint and knew in less than an hour that there wasn't. My horse didn't have to have his joint flushed, but stayed at the clinic for almost 6 days on IV antibiotics and it only cost me around $2,000. I know thats not cheap, but if I hadn't known that there wasn't a fracture or an infection in his joint, it could have cost a whole lot more for wasted treatment. I'm not trying to second guess your decisions at all but I'm glad he's going to Rochester now so at least you'll get the most information you can to make an informed decision. Abe is sooooo lucky to have found you! Thanks for being so caring.
                                      Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

                                      Comment


                                      • Fessy's Mom's husband gets a BIG round of applause. Give him a kiss from all the COTHers!!!

                                        In my experience, Rochester Equine Clinic is outstanding. Very knowledgeable and also very compassionate and concerned about their patients (and patients' owners). Abe will be in good hands there.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          SBH - whatever you're comfortable with is fine. I still have a balance at Brimfield so either way is fine. You're wonderful to help us out! So glad to hear your guy turned out fine. And don't worry, I'm doing enough second-guessing for all of us right now.

                                          17handtb- thank you for the vote of confidence for Rochester. I'm really starting to get excited.
                                          I would like to think I will die an heroic death...

                                          But it's more likely I'll trip over my dog and choke on a spoonful of frosting.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X