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Who funds the horse slaughter lobby? All roads lead to AQHA and Agribusiness.

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  • #81
    Originally posted by betonbill View Post
    What about the drugs??? I notice that there's always a large silence when this particular subject comes up. The EU has a list of medicines that it deems unacceptable for any meat processed for them. The last time I looked, a vast majority (say 90%+++) of the horses in my neighborhood (and these are mainly run of the mill pleasure horses) had had at least one bute in their lifetimes.

    As far as I know, bute is also not an acceptable medicine by FDA standards on animals slaughtered under their jurisdiction due to its being a potential carcinogen. I don't believe that the U.S. FDA allows for a period of time before the bute leaves an animal's system; I believe it is simply forbidden.

    Most actual meat producing animals seem to have heavily regulated, very controlled (feed/medicine/vet care) throughout their relatively short lives--so the possibility of a foul-up with a forbidden drug is a relatively small one.

    Let's contrast it with horses, who have virtually unregulated access to a cornucopia of medicines and health care products, plus have the potential to live far longer lives than regular slaughterable animals. This potentially longer life span raises the potential for having ingested not only a larger quantity of forbidden drugs but a larger variety of the same.

    Shall we just sweep this under the table? You all know that if there is a push to market horse meat in the U.S. that this will raise its ugly head at some point. Just how in the world are they going to realistically regulate something like this?
    THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN....



    covered...


    Do you eat horse meat?
    No? What does it matter to you?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #82
      Originally posted by mayhew View Post
      See, I just can't look at my horse and consider him a renewable natural resource. I'm not anti-slaughter, though. I don't personally want to eat horse, nor do I want mine to be eaten, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it. What I do have a problem with is a terrifying death preceded by days on a trailer. If we could bring back local abattoirs, or even make on-farm slaughter an option, it would be much easier to stomach, so to speak.
      The problem is there will never be 'local abbatoirs'. That model isn't profitable, hence why it hasn't happened. The profitable model is factory horse slaughter and the North American market will only support a handful of plants, which need to be located near international airports so the carcasses can be sent to their international destinations.

      We need to look realistically at what horse slaughter was, because that's the model it will be if it comes back here. And there is absolutely no way to ensure humane transport for the hours or days the horses travel. As it is, USDA inspectors are being cut back.
      "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by mayhew View Post
        See, I just can't look at my horse and consider him a renewable natural resource. I'm not anti-slaughter, though. I don't personally want to eat horse, nor do I want mine to be eaten, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it. What I do have a problem with is a terrifying death preceded by days on a trailer. If we could bring back local abattoirs, or even make on-farm slaughter an option, it would be much easier to stomach, so to speak.
        This is exactly how I feel.

        Not something I would choose to do with my horse, but I realize that not everyone sees their horse as a "pet" but has livestock, and if they choose to slaughter the horse, that is their business.
        "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

        Comment


        • #84
          Theoretically: I could shoot my horse in the head, skin him, halve him, and bring him to my local meat cutter, have him cut up, packaged, and I could fill my freezer with him.

          Not something I would do, but it's legal. You just can't SELL the meat.
          "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #85
            Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
            You are certainly swallowing their swill.

            Horse breeding is ALWAYS a lottery.
            Otherwise the market would not be full with offspring from top sires and dams barely scraping by.
            *head desk head desk*

            You missed the point. I wasn't speaking of a singular breeding (which was pretty clear), I was speaking of the practice of taking a stallion and breeding to a herd of mares, without any thought to genetics or a market for the offspring. This is done routinely by low and mid-level stock horse breeders, knowing they have slaughter to dump their culls.

            I think it's pretty clear that humane treatment and responsible breeding and equine business practices are not high on your priority list. I would have a lot more respect for the slaughter activists if they simply admitted it's about having a place to dump culls and make a few bucks.
            "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by JumpingPaints View Post
              *head desk head desk*

              You missed the point. I wasn't speaking of a singular breeding (which was pretty clear), I was speaking of the practice of taking a stallion and breeding to a herd of mares, without any thought to genetics or a market for the offspring. This is done routinely by low and mid-level stock horse breeders, knowing they have slaughter to dump their culls.
              No, I don't miss the point. I have seen it for over a decade now, trying to be made.
              YOU are missing the point:
              You are trying to paint breeders into a corner in the attempt to solve a problem that is non.
              Breeding is always a crap shot and for some goals it has also to be a numbers game. That is the long and the short of it.
              You start to dick around with the system you are opening a can of worms you will soon wish you had left alone.

              I think it's pretty clear that humane treatment and responsible breeding and equine business practices are not high on your priority list. I would have a lot more respect for the slaughter activists if they simply admitted it's about having a place to dump culls and make a few bucks.
              I think it's pretty clear that you are pretty condescending.
              And that you have no clue how the breeding world functions.
              Or the legal world for that matter.
              In any program you will have culls.
              Some are just not what the program aims for but are perfectly suited for somebody else.
              In other cases the animal's best use is for a hearty meal.

              And as usual the abuse card is played from the bottom of the deck.

              because the Big Lick walkers sore their horses - we can all agree that is abuse, right - we must ban that discipline.
              Racing makes horses break down, so it has to be banned....

              Earth to JumpingPaints: somebody, somewhere WILL object to what you do with your horse. I can guarantee you that. This person or persons will think of it as cruel and abusive.
              If you think you are above reproach because you a the sole real horse lover because you are against slaughter, you are delusional! The writing IS on the wall, has been for years.

              Now, print that article out, take it to a good English teacher and let him/her show you how to analyze it for propaganda swill and rhetorical garbage. Don't just swallow it because you like the message!

              Oh, and for what it's worth, in the last 10 years or so people have been harping on the 'abuse' side of business...but all they ever worked for was a ban, getting the inspectors removed, etc. Nothing to actually fix the problems.
              That is hypocritical! A few, like Bluey and myself have predicted how the situation will look once the US plants are closed. And guess what: It happened EXACTLY the way we said it would.

              Feel free to work on getting laws changed. But be very aware that a bad law is much harder removed from the books than it is to keep it off.
              The nearsightedness of the ban movement (considering who is pushing for it, not surprising) will present us with a bunch of junk laws that will severely hamper the horse industry as a whole. Don't take my word for it, read some of JSwan's posts on how the game is being played.
              Read the proposed ban of Carriage hoses in NYC - and I do mean, READ the proposed letter of the law!

              You are opposed to horse slaughter?
              Fine, don't send yours.

              You don't like to eat horse?
              Don't eat it.

              You are opposed to people making money of their horses?
              Tough one, because without profit there is no industry.
              And mull this over for a bit.
              Because without profit there will be no Horse Industry

              Now, tell me again which point I am not getting?

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by JumpingPaints View Post
                *head desk head desk*

                You missed the point. I wasn't speaking of a singular breeding (which was pretty clear), I was speaking of the practice of taking a stallion and breeding to a herd of mares, without any thought to genetics or a market for the offspring. This is done routinely by low and mid-level stock horse breeders, knowing they have slaughter to dump their culls.

                I think it's pretty clear that humane treatment and responsible breeding and equine business practices are not high on your priority list. I would have a lot more respect for the slaughter activists if they simply admitted it's about having a place to dump culls and make a few bucks.
                And you know all that about breeders because ... ?

                You could not be further from the truth, do get educated about what breeders do and why a bit more.

                Not saying that some clueless backyard horse owner didn't breed to get a cute foal for their kids to play with, but you are completely wrong about how breeding as a business is.
                Quit reading about breeding and breeders on animal rights sites.
                They really don't have a clue.

                The information is out there, read horse magazines, go to sites that discuss breeding.
                Right here we have a breeder's forum, go tell them what you just did there and let them educate you.

                Comment


                • #88
                  Alagirl!

                  Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                  No, I don't miss the point. I have seen it for over a decade now, trying to be made.
                  YOU are missing the point:
                  You are trying to paint breeders into a corner in the attempt to solve a problem that is non.
                  Breeding is always a crap shot and for some goals it has also to be a numbers game. That is the long and the short of it.
                  You start to dick around with the system you are opening a can of worms you will soon wish you had left alone.



                  I think it's pretty clear that you are pretty condescending.
                  And that you have no clue how the breeding world functions.
                  Or the legal world for that matter.
                  In any program you will have culls.
                  Some are just not what the program aims for but are perfectly suited for somebody else.
                  In other cases the animal's best use is for a hearty meal.

                  And as usual the abuse card is played from the bottom of the deck.

                  because the Big Lick walkers sore their horses - we can all agree that is abuse, right - we must ban that discipline.
                  Racing makes horses break down, so it has to be banned....

                  Earth to JumpingPaints: somebody, somewhere WILL object to what you do with your horse. I can guarantee you that. This person or persons will think of it as cruel and abusive.
                  If you think you are above reproach because you a the sole real horse lover because you are against slaughter, you are delusional! The writing IS on the wall, has been for years.

                  Now, print that article out, take it to a good English teacher and let him/her show you how to analyze it for propaganda swill and rhetorical garbage. Don't just swallow it because you like the message!

                  Oh, and for what it's worth, in the last 10 years or so people have been harping on the 'abuse' side of business...but all they ever worked for was a ban, getting the inspectors removed, etc. Nothing to actually fix the problems.
                  That is hypocritical! A few, like Bluey and myself have predicted how the situation will look once the US plants are closed. And guess what: It happened EXACTLY the way we said it would.

                  Feel free to work on getting laws changed. But be very aware that a bad law is much harder removed from the books than it is to keep it off.
                  The nearsightedness of the ban movement (considering who is pushing for it, not surprising) will present us with a bunch of junk laws that will severely hamper the horse industry as a whole. Don't take my word for it, read some of JSwan's posts on how the game is being played.
                  Read the proposed ban of Carriage hoses in NYC - and I do mean, READ the proposed letter of the law!

                  You are opposed to horse slaughter?
                  Fine, don't send yours.

                  You don't like to eat horse?
                  Don't eat it.

                  You are opposed to people making money of their horses?
                  Tough one, because without profit there is no industry.
                  And mull this over for a bit.
                  Because without profit there will be no Horse Industry

                  Now, tell me again which point I am not getting?
                  Excellent!!! This is why I have always liked you!

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Regional differences abound here . . .

                    The elephant in the room here, folks, is our regional differences and how we were socialized to think of animals:

                    Bottom line, if you're in a "Red State" it's more likely you have strong feelings about property law, that all livestock are a commodity first, and that no one's going to tell you what you can and cannot do with 'em to make money.

                    If you're more of the "Blue" persuasion, you've probably been brought up to believe in the protection and stewardship model of animal welfare.

                    These differences, believe it or not, go as far back as which regions of England the predominant settlers of our various American regions emigrated from; whether our part of the country still reflects, to a surprising degree, the mores of Puritans, Quakers, Cavaliers, or Borderers from the North of England, Scotland and Wales. These values carry over into ideas of personal protection, arms-bearing, "family values," gender roles, practically everything. They are hundreds if not thousands of years old and we will NEVER agree!*

                    One thing I think we can ALL agree on is that if there were no "unwanted" horses, this problem would cease to exist.

                    *For an unprecedentedly clear view of why our country is the way it is, read the book ALBION'S SEED.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                      The elephant in the room here, folks, is our regional differences and how we were socialized to think of animals:

                      Bottom line, if you're in a "Red State" it's more likely you have strong feelings about property law, that all livestock are a commodity first, and that no one's going to tell you what you can and cannot do with 'em to make money.

                      If you're more of the "Blue" persuasion, you've probably been brought up to believe in the protection and stewardship model of animal welfare.

                      These differences, believe it or not, go as far back as which regions of England the predominant settlers of our various American regions emigrated from; whether our part of the country still reflects, to a surprising degree, the mores of Puritans, Quakers, Cavaliers, or Borderers from the North of England, Scotland and Wales. These values carry over into ideas of personal protection, arms-bearing, "family values," gender roles, practically everything. They are hundreds if not thousands of years old and we will NEVER agree!*

                      One thing I think we can ALL agree on is that if there were no "unwanted" horses, this problem would cease to exist.

                      *For an unprecedentedly clear view of why our country is the way it is, read the book ALBION'S SEED.
                      This is a crock!

                      Generalizations , assumptions, opinions and just pulloed out of thin air.

                      I am a liberal, I do no oppose slaughter. There are Amish all around me that do not oppose slaughter. I do live in a "red" county in a swing state that some call purple. An auction in this state is something that the animal rights wackos would love to close. The same auction is what keeps some kill buyer pimps, that call themselves rescues in business.

                      There will always be unwanted and excess horses. There is nothing anyone can do to elliminate that fact, unless you elliminate all horses and horse ownership. Elliminating horse ownership is what the animal rights groups want to do.
                      The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        When you start taking flak, you're directly over the target!

                        Now tell me why it is that you defend these bottom-feeders so vehemently every single thread; and don't trot out the "animal rights nuts" because that IS a crock!

                        Most of us just hate to see horses wind up this way.

                        Why are YOU in favor of it?

                        Driving a double-decker at night? Or, how many of YOUR horses have you taken to New Holland, patted on the rump, and happily sent off a perfectly useful ending at the good ol' slaughterhouse? Did you walk away whistling cheerfully?

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                          When you start taking flak, you're directly over the target!

                          Now tell me why it is that you defend these bottom-feeders so vehemently every single thread; and don't trot out the "animal rights nuts" because that IS a crock!

                          Most of us just hate to see horses wind up this way.

                          Why are YOU in favor of it?

                          Driving a double-decker at night? Or, how many of YOUR horses have you taken to New Holland, patted on the rump, and happily sent off a perfectly useful ending at the good ol' slaughterhouse? Did you walk away whistling cheerfully?

                          You are deflecting the issue here with "oh, look at all the abuse, all that is wrong!".
                          Conveniently forgetting that these debates are not about how to manage slaughter, but the animal rights agenda to ban slaughter altogether, along with eventually banning all uses of animals by humans.
                          Sorry, that bird won't fly, no matter how many times or how high some keep trying to raise it.

                          Slaughter is inherently not all those abuses animal rights like to parade in their propaganda.
                          Those are abuses and you can find abuses in all we do and yes, those should be stopped.

                          Slaughter is the process of acquiring the natural, renewable resources horses can provide us once dead, nothing more or less.
                          It is not about your horse, or mine.
                          It is about having the right to determine what we do with our horses and yes, for some, even slaughter them, if that is what it's owner deems best.

                          How slaughter is managed, that is secondary to the question if or not to ban slaughter, that really is the real topic here.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                            Now tell me why it is that you defend these bottom-feeders so vehemently every single thread; and don't trot out the "animal rights nuts" because that IS a crock!
                            I don't oppose slaughter, and just because there are bottom feeders on both sides doesn't change my opinion.
                            The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              If you don't want a horse to got to slaughter, buy them and take care of them.
                              The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                                When you start taking flak, you're directly over the target!

                                Now tell me why it is that you defend these bottom-feeders so vehemently every single thread; and don't trot out the "animal rights nuts" because that IS a crock!

                                Most of us just hate to see horses wind up this way.

                                Why are YOU in favor of it?

                                Driving a double-decker at night? Or, how many of YOUR horses have you taken to New Holland, patted on the rump, and happily sent off a perfectly useful ending at the good ol' slaughterhouse? Did you walk away whistling cheerfully?

                                Damn, I almost agreed with you...

                                Alas...


                                First of all, I am assuming you are one of those people turning your nose up at the garbage man...but somebody has to take out the trash, right.

                                Bottom feeders? Somebody has to deal with the lower links of the food chain in the industry. They are no different than the lesson barn teaching up and down lessons to kids (and we know that those beasties suffer greatly at the hands of the untrained and ignorant)

                                the 'bottom feeders' deal in the low end horse flesh. They sell what they can to non slaughter places because <GASP> they make more money that way. I hear there is a good mark-up going on, several hundred percent to be precise, just look at the rescues. 500 smackers for a horse that ran through the auction the day before for maybe a hundred. That is PROFIT, right, even though it is not going to slaughter. Profit is not a dirty word, just because we don't like the guy who gets the money!

                                These dealers do not tend to hang on to those low end horses for long, for one the next load is just around the corner and then by the time they stand around and eat for a month they will have exceeded their value in grocery money.
                                Otherwise they would be hoarders....
                                and hoarders are never good.

                                The guy, that 'bottom feeder' as you like to call him, who deal in the cheap horses is no different than the guy who is selling you that 6 figure show horse.
                                Matter of fact, that show star might have come from the feed lot a month ago, or will go back once the injected joints give way.

                                We are having a small but significant problem:
                                Even in rural areas people become increasingly urbanized.
                                In the wake of that we lose precious farm land and the correlating businesses.
                                The cityot moving in for the idyllic farm ambience will complain about the smell the romantic cows produce, the noise that rustric tractor makes when it drives past his house at 8 in the morning.
                                Along the line of losing farm life we lose the services catering to the life stock industry:
                                In many places the knacker does not even come by for pick ups anymore.
                                or they come by when they happen to be in the area...not a really good idea when dealing with 1200 pounds of rotting flesh!

                                many places you can't bury a carcass.

                                So as animal owner you are faced with the following dilemma:
                                The economy has left you with empty pockets, the drought has put hay out of your reach....
                                nobody is buying, everybody is selling, you can't give the horse away, can't keep it.

                                so, you decide to euthanise it. great.
                                can't shoot it, because that's mean, right.
                                Maybe your vet won't give it the pink stuff - or the blue one, whatever, because Dobbins is bright eyed and bushy-tailed, a picture of health.
                                Can't turn it out on the back 40, because it has not seen rain in ever, or it has seen too much rain and is flooded...or simply the pack 40 is a half acre dirt lot...

                                You can't put a horse on blocks like an old car and hope for better times!

                                BTW, in the above scenario, I do consider a well placed bullet the best option. I don't care much for the idea in turning an animal into 1200 pounds of toxic waste...


                                Alas, to come back to your original question as to why we 'defend the bottom feeders'

                                We don't.
                                We defend the idea that a horse owner may do as he or she wishes with their legal property. That does include making a buck or two of dobbin's hide if so desired.
                                Buying and selling cheap horses is legal, slaughter is legal, even for human consumption (with the exception of some special cases like California...)

                                I am against improper intrusion of 3rd parties into my affairs which include the dictate of what I can and cannot eat as well. you know the 'we do not eat horse' is a false hood, as the ongoing string of horse theft in Florida proves.


                                to have a viable industry you also need the bottom.
                                and if you cut the bottom out artificially, guess what, somebody else will be the bottom.

                                And speaking of bottom:
                                The closure of the plants in the US, paired with the drought and economic collapse has crushed the bottom in the horse market in many places.
                                That put expensive animals into the hands of a lot of well meaning but ill equipped people who previously could not spring for the purchase price of a horse outbidding the meat man.
                                considering that the 25 dollar horse will eat it's value with the first meal...we can see where that is headed, let alone things like calling the vet or a trimmer, when saying hello to them is a multiple of the original price. Too many people do not spend that kind of money on something they can replace for cheaper! (that accounts for the increase in neglect cases, so much so that the John Tesh radio show talked about it a couple of years ago...)

                                Abuse?
                                Profit?
                                Don't even go there...

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by JumpingPaints View Post
                                  "The object that drives the horse slaughter lobby is money. It has never been about equine welfare, humanity, professionalism or reliability. Like in most political issues, those defending horse slaughtering are in it for the money or for the prospects of monetary earnings in a variety of forms, from obtaining campaign donations to the renewal of a Public Relations contracts or the obtainment of power to shape legislation to their own advantage."
                                  Clearly this.
                                  "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Alagirl View Post

                                    Do you eat horse meat?
                                    No? What does it matter to you?
                                    Careful. She could be asking you why you care about horse issues...You don't own a horse.

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                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                      No, I don't miss the point. I have seen it for over a decade now, trying to be made.
                                      YOU are missing the point:
                                      You are trying to paint breeders into a corner in the attempt to solve a problem that is non.
                                      Breeding is always a crap shot and for some goals it has also to be a numbers game. That is the long and the short of it.
                                      You start to dick around with the system you are opening a can of worms you will soon wish you had left alone.



                                      I think it's pretty clear that you are pretty condescending.
                                      And that you have no clue how the breeding world functions.
                                      Or the legal world for that matter.
                                      In any program you will have culls.
                                      Some are just not what the program aims for but are perfectly suited for somebody else.
                                      In other cases the animal's best use is for a hearty meal.

                                      And as usual the abuse card is played from the bottom of the deck.

                                      because the Big Lick walkers sore their horses - we can all agree that is abuse, right - we must ban that discipline.
                                      Racing makes horses break down, so it has to be banned....

                                      Earth to JumpingPaints: somebody, somewhere WILL object to what you do with your horse. I can guarantee you that. This person or persons will think of it as cruel and abusive.
                                      If you think you are above reproach because you a the sole real horse lover because you are against slaughter, you are delusional! The writing IS on the wall, has been for years.

                                      Now, print that article out, take it to a good English teacher and let him/her show you how to analyze it for propaganda swill and rhetorical garbage. Don't just swallow it because you like the message!

                                      Oh, and for what it's worth, in the last 10 years or so people have been harping on the 'abuse' side of business...but all they ever worked for was a ban, getting the inspectors removed, etc. Nothing to actually fix the problems.
                                      That is hypocritical! A few, like Bluey and myself have predicted how the situation will look once the US plants are closed. And guess what: It happened EXACTLY the way we said it would.

                                      Feel free to work on getting laws changed. But be very aware that a bad law is much harder removed from the books than it is to keep it off.
                                      The nearsightedness of the ban movement (considering who is pushing for it, not surprising) will present us with a bunch of junk laws that will severely hamper the horse industry as a whole. Don't take my word for it, read some of JSwan's posts on how the game is being played.
                                      Read the proposed ban of Carriage hoses in NYC - and I do mean, READ the proposed letter of the law!

                                      You are opposed to horse slaughter?
                                      Fine, don't send yours.

                                      You don't like to eat horse?
                                      Don't eat it.

                                      You are opposed to people making money of their horses?
                                      Tough one, because without profit there is no industry.
                                      And mull this over for a bit.
                                      Because without profit there will be no Horse Industry

                                      Now, tell me again which point I am not getting?
                                      Even Temple Grandin says that horse slaughter can't be made humane, realistically, due to the cost. She also stated that she can set up a state of the art SH, and while she is there, it runs fine, and as soon as she leaves, there are all kinds of abuse. I guess she is falling for propoganda too, and is an ARA????

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                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                        Careful. She could be asking you why you care about horse issues...You don't own a horse.
                                        Careful, that seems to be aiming below the belt and unbecoming of honest discussion here.

                                        There are many reasons and ways to be involved with horses without owning one.
                                        I didn't own one for years and was still a professional, as instructor and trainer and broodmare operation manager.
                                        Assumptions tend to trip us regularly, better not go there.

                                        Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                        Even Temple Grandin says that horse slaughter can't be made humane, realistically, due to the cost. She also stated that she can set up a state of the art SH, and while she is there, it runs fine, and as soon as she leaves, there are all kinds of abuse. I guess she is falling for propoganda too, and is an ARA????
                                        Temple Grandin said she was misquoted there.
                                        She meant it is human nature to not do things as good when supervision is not constant and direct.
                                        She also started a business independently monitoring 24/7 thru cameras slaughter plants, that was a result of her idea that continuous supervision would curb any that was not up to regulations.
                                        Her comments were taken out of context by animal rights extremists, as you do there, even adding the little "abuse" dig.

                                        The trouble any time people discuss slaughter is that slaughter is gross, is sad, is gruesome, it is what it is.
                                        Caution, it is all that and more, hard to watch, but very instructional also, but don't watch if you are squeamish, it is graphic:

                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqYY...ature=youtu.be

                                        Then, if you ask a gazelle being brought down and eaten still alive by jackals, I guess the alternative, to raise and slaughter our prey as we do thru our animal husbandry protocols, that is not such a terrible bargain.

                                        Horse slaughter was not any different, is not any different, in fact, it was one of the most regulated of all slaughter, that is why it was inspected so intensely.

                                        For those that then want to question why the abuses, well, from hundreds of thousands of horses slaughtered, yes, there were some abuses, but so are in trainer's barns, in some backyards, most anywhere you find abusers.
                                        Abusers are a different topic, just happen to be what animal rights extremists like to use for their propaganda, because they can convince those that don't know any better it is all abuse.

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                                        • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                          Careful, that seems to be aiming below the belt and unbecoming of honest discussion here.

                                          There are many reasons and ways to be involved with horses without owning one.
                                          I didn't own one for years and was still a professional, as instructor and trainer and broodmare operation manager.
                                          Assumptions tend to trip us regularly, better not go there.



                                          Temple Grandin said she was misquoted there.
                                          She meant it is human nature to not do things as good when supervision is not constant and direct.
                                          That is not the way her comments were taken out of context by animal rights extremists, as you do there, even adding the little "abuse" dig.
                                          (You DID see the post of Alagirls that I was responding to, right? My statement to her was rhetorical, because she was implying that because that person didn't eat horsemeat, she shouldn't care whether it is drug laden. Hence the "careful" comment. Just because someone doesn't do something or own something doesn't mean they have no right to comment about it. I think you misread my post.)

                                          And I tried googling to find anywhere that TG states her comments were taken out of context, and can't find a stmt from her. Although I do have her entire speech that I posted about on video. Can you provide a link where she disputes it?

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