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Who funds the horse slaughter lobby? All roads lead to AQHA and Agribusiness.

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  • Originally posted by ADM7040 View Post
    Fairfax, you have got to be kidding when you are questioning other people's research skills. You have demonstrated repeatedly on this thread a definite lack of proof to the propaganda that you spew. I do not think you have provided a single link to verify anything you have tried to claim yet you have repeatedly questioned others to verify what they are stating. I blew apart one of your ridiculous posts with information quoted from and linked to the FDA and CFIA. You were claiming to be so knowledgeable about the CFIA and you have been proven to be full of hot air about your knowledge.

    Your solution? Ignore my post with valid quotes and links from unbiased sources such as the FDA and CFIA and then make further ridiculous statements that you can not back up with any valid, unbiased links and then question others' researching skills? Come on, your credibility is shot unless YOU can provide some unbiased proof to what you are claiming. You are definitely the one who needs to step up the researching skills!
    I have provided so many links over the past twelve months and they have been ignored with the same people coming back to the trough demanding the same links.

    Your comments having nothing to do with the slaughter in Canada. You can blow as much smoke as you want..never stated any of the dewormers or bute etc were not an issue..but that is what the 6 months is used for.

    Hope you enjoy all of the reading from my post....all verifiable..all you have to do IS LOOK...
    The Elephant in the room

    Comment


    • I can send the copy of the disertation by Parisio if anyone wants to send their email address. I am unable to convert it to word so I can copy it. It was sent to me in PDF form by its author

      As for my research skills...I stand by them...I don't respond to smoke

      However my skills allowed several individuals to defeat HSUS and its affiliates IN THE COURT ROOM...however I can not take the credit as my associates were awesome...

      And you have accomplished??????
      The Elephant in the room

      Comment


      • Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
        Riiiiiight. You think horses that are sent to slaughter are not a "waste product" of the breeding/ racing industries? What are they then? A valuable asset?

        Fact is, if there were an economic disincentive to overproduction (instead of a null or even an incentive to overproduce), then it would decline. Likewise, if there were thousands fewer horses produced in the US every year, those who were would be more valuable (econ 101).

        Just like when there was no penalty for polluting, industry did it at far greater rates than they do now. Basic economics apples to apples.
        I like to play chess with you some time. I think even I can beat you badly since you can't look past the next move on your board.

        This is a game of strategy. you don't look 4 or 5 moves down the road you will lose.

        You WILL lose.

        Follow the consequences of what you think you want implemented.
        I mean realistically. Not the way you think it should pan out.
        Originally posted by BigMama1
        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
        GNU Terry Prachett

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
          I like to play chess with you some time. I think even I can beat you badly since you can't look past the next move on your board.

          This is a game of strategy. you don't look 4 or 5 moves down the road you will lose.

          You WILL lose.

          Follow the consequences of what you think you want implemented.
          I mean realistically. Not the way you think it should pan out.
          I can't do anything but laugh at you... I "WILL lose"? *insert scary movie music* Lose... what?

          I have no illusions about the "consequences" of what was suggested - that breeders should be ultimately responsible for the horses they produce. Maybe you should think about how it would pan out.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Echo View Post
            There is a lot of research on the negative effects of bute.

            http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/search?...ter%3A#results

            or if you don't want to pay for it
            http://www.horseprotection.it/docs/phenylbutazone.pdf

            Bute is not the only medication given to horses that is entirely prohibited for 'food'.

            The U.S. horse slaughter dealers don't know the medical history of the horses they buy and don't keep them for any 'withdrawal' period for the medications that have withdrawal periods. Most are shipped within a week of when they are purchased.

            Why is it that anyone opposed to horse slaughter is an "animal Rights Activist"? I am not a member of any organization and have been adamantly opposed to horse slaughter for years. Those of you that support horse slaughter need to really look at what the horse slaughter system really is and what it will become for all horse owners and their horses. If you have horses just for money, pick something else because the majority of horse owners shell 'out' money and would never think of sending their horses to slaughter for the few dollars they pay as evidenced by the majority that don't.
            I made a huge mistake with two horses that I have owned for 15 years. I would never knowingly have subjected them to the horse slaughter system for any reason and yet some of you want to condem me because I am entirely against slaughtering horses - for many reasons.
            Where is the compassion? My horses were good girls. I called Keith Tongen many times and had offered to buy them back if he got them. He lied and lied. There was no reason.
            Now I cry and write.

            I am not sure, but it seems that you sold some horses and you think/know they went to slaughter, so now you blame slaughter because you sold your horses?

            Would you want to fight all horse trainers if you had sold them to someone that sold them to a trainer and didn't do what you think they should do with the horses you sold them?

            I think that maybe you should at some time accept responsibility for your actions and not go on blaming others.
            You may be fighting the wrong target there by helping animal rights extremists, as it seems, because you did something that doesn't seem to make sense, that is selling your horses and then wanting to still have a say in what others that now own them do with them.
            Sorry, that is not the way the world works, you sell them, they now belong to others.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
              Yes, it's been well documented in this thread which COTHers absolutely do not care about horses being abused.
              I don't know about that, but what is clear is who here are animal rights extremists.
              Which is very strange, this being a horse training board, to be posting here while working for those that want to eliminate all animal use.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                I can't do anything but laugh at you... I "WILL lose"? *insert scary movie music* Lose... what?

                I have no illusions about the "consequences" of what was suggested - that breeders should be ultimately responsible for the horses they produce. Maybe you should think about how it would pan out.
                Exactly, there would not be a horse industry left, just a few very rich people would own a few horses as a symbol of how rich they are.

                Which would play so nicely right into the hands of animal rights extremists.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                  I have provided so many links over the past twelve months and they have been ignored with the same people coming back to the trough demanding the same links.

                  Your comments having nothing to do with the slaughter in Canada. You can blow as much smoke as you want..never stated any of the dewormers or bute etc were not an issue..but that is what the 6 months is used for.

                  Hope you enjoy all of the reading from my post....all verifiable..all you have to do IS LOOK...
                  Fairfax, I will apologize that I mixed you up with wonderhorseguy. You have provided reasonable info in many posts even if I do not agree with your conclusions.

                  My comments did have to do with slaughter and bute in Canada, they were directed toward another individual's post instead of yours. However, the reason I mixed you up with wonderhorse guy is because I addressed your 60 day question in the same post that I answered wonderhorseguy. Slaughter can not be a 60 day solution either if you believe in using the 6 month washout period.

                  Personally, I do not have an issue with the 6 month washout period or the idea of keeping horses in feedlots, that to me makes sense to ensure safe washout periods. But I do question why higher standards are held for cattle, etc than for horses as pointed out in Alagirl's post. Why do the originators of the cattle have more accountability?
                  Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                  Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                  Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                    I can't do anything but laugh at you... I "WILL lose"? *insert scary movie music* Lose... what?

                    I have no illusions about the "consequences" of what was suggested - that breeders should be ultimately responsible for the horses they produce. Maybe you should think about how it would pan out.
                    Yeah, this made me laugh as well!
                    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                    Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                      I can't do anything but laugh at you... I "WILL lose"? *insert scary movie music* Lose... what?

                      I have no illusions about the "consequences" of what was suggested - that breeders should be ultimately responsible for the horses they produce. Maybe you should think about how it would pan out.

                      Like I said:
                      You suck at chess.
                      Originally posted by BigMama1
                      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                      GNU Terry Prachett

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                        I don't know about that, but what is clear is who here are animal rights extremists.
                        Which is very strange, this being a horse training board, to be posting here while working for those that want to eliminate all animal use.

                        Paranoid personality disorder is a mental disorder characterized by paranoia and a pervasive, long-standing suspiciousness and generalized mistrust of others.

                        Individuals with this personality disorder may be hypersensitive, easily feel slighted, and habitually relate to the world by vigilant scanning of the environment for clues or suggestions that may validate their fears or biases.

                        Paranoid individuals are eager observers.

                        They think they are in danger and look for signs and threats of that danger, potentially not appreciating other evidence.

                        They tend to be guarded and suspicious and have quite constricted emotional lives.
                        Their reduced capacity for meaningful emotional involvement and the general pattern of isolated withdrawl often lend a quality of schizoid isolation to their life experience.

                        People with this particular disorder may or may not have a tendency to bear grudges, suspiciousness, tendency to interpret others' actions as hostile, persistent tendency to self-reference, or a tenacious sense of personal right.
                        ************************
                        \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                        Comment


                        • I can't believe this is still going on... YAWN.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                            Paranoid personality disorder is a mental disorder characterized by paranoia and a pervasive, long-standing suspiciousness and generalized mistrust of others.

                            Individuals with this personality disorder may be hypersensitive, easily feel slighted, and habitually relate to the world by vigilant scanning of the environment for clues or suggestions that may validate their fears or biases.

                            Paranoid individuals are eager observers.

                            They think they are in danger and look for signs and threats of that danger, potentially not appreciating other evidence.

                            They tend to be guarded and suspicious and have quite constricted emotional lives.
                            Their reduced capacity for meaningful emotional involvement and the general pattern of isolated withdrawl often lend a quality of schizoid isolation to their life experience.

                            People with this particular disorder may or may not have a tendency to bear grudges, suspiciousness, tendency to interpret others' actions as hostile, persistent tendency to self-reference, or a tenacious sense of personal right.
                            Where is your degree?

                            As any sensible person can tell you, even if some are paranoid, that doesn't mean "they" are not after them.

                            Here, so you know I am not the only one that thinks the HSUS is not the choirboys you keep wanting others to believe they are.;

                            http://activistcash.com/organization...-united-states

                            See, I can copy and paste also:



                            The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is a radical animal rights group that inaccurately portrays itself as a mainstream animal care organization. The words “humane society” may appear on its letterhead, but HSUS is not affiliated with your local animal shelter. Despite the omnipresent dogs and cats in its fundraising materials and television commercials, it’s not an organization that runs spay/neuter programs or takes in stray, neglected, and abused pets. And quite unlike the common image of animal protection agencies as cash-strapped organizations dedicated to animal welfare, HSUS has become the wealthiest animal rights organization on earth.
                            Click here to see proof of how HSUS gives 1 percent of its budget to pet shelters
                            Click here to see evidence of how HSUS deceives Americans
                            Click here to see evidence that HSUS wants to eliminate meat, cheese, and dairy foods
                            Click here to read about how HSUS’s CEO has said he doesn’t want to see another dog or cat born
                            Click here to discover how HSUS’s CEO said dogfighting kingpin Michael Vick would “do a good job as a pet owner”
                            Click here to see how HSUS funnels more money into its pension plan than it gives to pet shelters
                            Click here to learn about why the American Institute of Philanthropy gives HSUS a “D” rating
                            Click here to read why six Congressmen recently called for a federal investigation of HSUS
                            HSUS is big, rich, and powerful. While most local animal shelters are under-funded and unsung, HSUS has accumulated $162 million in assets and built a recognizable brand by capitalizing on the confusion its very name provokes. This misdirection results in an irony of which most animal lovers are unaware: HSUS raises enough money to finance animal shelters in every single state, with money to spare, yet it doesn’t operate a single one anywhere.

                            Instead, HSUS spends millions on programs that seek to economically cripple meat and dairy producers; eliminate the use of animals in biomedical research labs; phase out pet breeding, zoos, and circus animal acts; and demonize hunters as crazed lunatics. HSUS spends more than $5 million each year on travel expenses alone, just keeping its multi-national agenda going.

                            HSUS president Wayne Pacelle described some of his goals in 2004 for The Washington Post: “We will see the end of wild animals in circus acts … [and we’re] phasing out animals used in research. Hunting? I think you will see a steady decline in numbers.” But Pacelle may have more ambitious anti-hunting goals. In 1991, while he was the National Director of the Fund for Animals, Pacelle told the Associated Press: “[I]f we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would. Just like we would shut down all dog fighting, all cock fighting or all bull fighting.”

                            More recently, in a June 2005 interview, Pacelle told Satya magazine that HSUS is working on “a guide to vegetarian eating, to really make the case for it.” A strict vegan himself, Pacelle added: “Reducing meat consumption can be a tremendous benefit to animals.”

                            Shortly after Pacelle joined HSUS in 1994, he told Animal People (an inside-the-movement watchdog newspaper) that his goal was to build “a National Rifle Association of the animal rights movement.” And now, as the organization’s leader, he’s in a position to back up his rhetoric with action. In 2005 Pacelle announced the formation of a new “Animal Protection Litigation Section” within HSUS, dedicated to “the process of researching, preparing, and prosecuting animal protection lawsuits in state and federal court.”

                            HSUS’s current goals have little to do with animal shelters. The group has taken aim at the traditional morning meal of bacon and eggs with a tasteless “Breakfast of Cruelty” campaign. Its newspaper op-eds demand that consumers “help make this a more humane world [by] reducing our consumption of meat and egg products.” Since its inception, HSUS has tried to limit the choices of American consumers, opposing dog breeding, conventional livestock and poultry farming, rodeos, circuses, horse racing, marine aquariums, and fur trapping.

                            A True Multinational Corporation

                            HSUS is a multinational conglomerate with regional staff operating in 33 states and a special Hollywood Office that promotes and monitors the media’s coverage of animal-rights issues. It includes a huge web of organizations, affiliates, and subsidiaries. Some are nonprofit, tax-exempt “charities,” while others are for-profit taxable corporations, which don’t have to divulge anything about their financial dealings.

                            This unusually complex structure means that HSUS can hide expenses where the public would never think to look. For instance, one HSUS-affiliated organization called the HSUS Wildlife Land Trust collected $21.1 million between 1998 and 2003. During the same period, it spent $15.7 million on fundraising expenses, most of which directly benefited HSUS. This arrangement allowed HSUS to bury millions in direct-mail and other fundraising costs in its affiliate’s budget, giving the public (and charity watchdog groups) the false impression that its own fundraising costs were relatively low.

                            Until 1995 HSUS also controlled the Humane Society of Canada (HSC), which Paul Irwin (HSUS president from 1996 to 2004) had founded four years earlier. But Irwin, who claimed to live in Canada when he set up HSC, turned out to be ineligible to run a Canadian charity (He actually lived in Maryland). Irwin’s Canadian passport was ultimately revoked and he was replaced as HSC’s executive director.

                            The new leader later hauled HSUS into court to answer charges that Irwin had transferred over $1 million to HSUS from the Canadian group. HSUS claimed it was to pay for HSC’s fundraising, but didn’t provide the group with the required documentation to back up the expenses. In January 1997 a Canadian judge ordered HSUS to return the money, writing: “I cannot imagine a more glaring conflict of interest or a more egregious breach of fiduciary duty. It demonstrates an overweening arrogance of a type seldom seen.”

                            From Animal Welfare to Animal Rights

                            There is an enormous difference between animal “welfare” organizations, which work for the humane treatment of animals, and animal “rights” organizations, which aim to completely end the use and ownership of animals. The former have been around for centuries; the latter emerged in the 1980s, with the rise of the radical People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA).

                            The Humane Society of the United States began as an animal welfare organization. Originally called the National Humane Society, it was established in 1954 as a spin-off of the American Humane Association (AHA). Its founders wanted a slightly more radical group -- the AHA did not oppose sport hunting or the use of shelter animals for biomedical research.

                            Comment


                            • Actually the saying goes 'just because you are not paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you'

                              But in essence, yeah.
                              Originally posted by BigMama1
                              Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                              GNU Terry Prachett

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                                I am really tired of repeating myself on these threads, and so I won't.
                                .
                                This makes me sad because your posts are always well thought out and informational. However, I know what you mean.

                                Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                Why would someone go to all of that effort when their selling price to Mexican slaughter is only going to be around $200.00 AFTER they have their shipping costs...Must be nice to live in an area where no one knows about slaughter. My friends in the upscale Santa Barbara area (Goleta) even know about it and they only have show dogs.

                                If slaughter was such huge money the prices for horses would be high at the bottom end instead of 35 dollars. Horses are just NOT SELLING right now...even at the high end.
                                .

                                Um, checked Craigslist lately? People are giving away horses. Here is a small sample from an area in central California:

                                Jul 30 - Free horse - (Le Grand) farm & garden - by owner
                                Jul 28 - **free Gelding - (coarsegold) farm & garden - by owner
                                Jul 24 - Small horse free to good home - (Porterville) farm & garden - by owner pic
                                Aug 7 - FREE HORSE 25 yrs - (O'Neals) farm & garden - by owner pic
                                Aug 7 - Free Broodmare - (O'Neals) farm & garden - by owner pic

                                And btw, Santa Barbara is five hours away, and the Woodside, Portola Valley area is pretty insulated. I'm speaking from my own personal experience, but I'm not sure why I bother since you will just accuse me of fabricating fairy tales.

                                Originally posted by 7HL View Post
                                The fact is that they do get it. They hope that by flooding slaughter posts with all the propaganda it will win over converts. There have been numerous slaughter threads and the same RARAs keep coming back to post the same old BS.
                                Oh, so now you are back to calling the anti-slaughter people RARAs? Nice. Why is it you, Alagirl, and Bluey all feel the need to insult us? Alagirl and Fairfax have pretty much called me a liar and Bluey believes we are all clueless people who get our information from propaganda.

                                It's interesting that you believe the facts posted are BS. Goes to show once again how much people on the pro side only think in black and white.

                                At least those of us on the anti side show some sense of decorum.
                                Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  I am not sure, but it seems that you sold some horses and you think/know they went to slaughter, so now you blame slaughter because you sold your horses?

                                  Would you want to fight all horse trainers if you had sold them to someone that sold them to a trainer and didn't do what you think they should do with the horses you sold them?

                                  I think that maybe you should at some time accept responsibility for your actions and not go on blaming others.
                                  You may be fighting the wrong target there by helping animal rights extremists, as it seems, because you did something that doesn't seem to make sense, that is selling your horses and then wanting to still have a say in what others that now own them do with them.
                                  Sorry, that is not the way the world works, you sell them, they now belong to others.
                                  Don't assume what you don't know. I never said I sold them. And again, I would venture to guess that most horseowners that are opposed to horse slaughter are far from animal rights extremists - but I know, that doesn't work for your 'sky is falling' theory.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                                    Riiiiiight. You think horses that are sent to slaughter are not a "waste product" of the breeding/ racing industries? What are they then? A valuable asset?

                                    Fact is, if there were an economic disincentive to overproduction (instead of a null or even an incentive to overproduce), then it would decline. Likewise, if there were thousands fewer horses produced in the US every year, those who were would be more valuable (econ 101).

                                    Just like when there was no penalty for polluting, industry did it at far greater rates than they do now. Basic economics apples to apples.
                                    Apparently they want the bottom price of horses to be raised, but when offered a suggestion on how to do it (breeding licence) all of a sudden it's "No, you'll price horses out of the market! or Now you are going to make breeders be accountable for what they are breeding!"

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                      I have provided so many links over the past twelve months and they have been ignored with the same people coming back to the trough demanding the same links.

                                      Your comments having nothing to do with the slaughter in Canada. You can blow as much smoke as you want..never stated any of the dewormers or bute etc were not an issue..but that is what the 6 months is used for.

                                      Hope you enjoy all of the reading from my post....all verifiable..all you have to do IS LOOK...
                                      The use of Bute at any time is banned in a food animal. There is no 6 mo withdrawal period.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                        I don't know about that, but what is clear is who here are animal rights extremists.
                                        Which is very strange, this being a horse training board, to be posting here while working for those that want to eliminate all animal use.
                                        Seems to me then, that your definition of an animal rights extremist is wrong then. You have people here, that own, ride and show horses, and own other animals, and people like Nick Zito and Jess Jackson who are heavily involved in the horse industry, that want to see commercial horse slaughter banned. None of us/them want horse/animal ownership banned. It is one issue that the HSUS just happens to also support. Are you trying to say that Nick Zito and Jess Jackson are also Animal Rights extremists? If I recall, you DID say you supported banning dog fighting. The HSUS also supported banning it. By your definition, you are also an Animal Rights Extremist.

                                        Perhaps it is just because some people disagree with your stance, and you find it easier to try to call them names...

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                          I don't know about that, but what is clear is who here are animal rights extremists.
                                          Which is very strange, this being a horse training board, to be posting here while working for those that want to eliminate all animal use.
                                          OK, so I think I've finally got this straight. Anyone who isn't pro-slaughter is a RARA. How very convenient for you.

                                          You know what I'd REALLY like to know? How is it that you have nothing better to do than expend about 90,000 words over a 5 day period going totally off on a subject you claim doesn't even impact you personally? Your leg in a cast or something?

                                          What is YOUR problem with the vast majority (99%?) of horse owners who wish this would become a thing of the past?

                                          Unless you're being financially impacted personally in a big way I just don't understand the way you spend your time. Be aware you will not change the minds of many of us for sure.

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