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Who funds the horse slaughter lobby? All roads lead to AQHA and Agribusiness.

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  • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
    No, there haven't.

    It all involved taxing third parties.
    That is not a workable solution.
    Why not? Our government already spends way too much money and many government agencies are a joke. Heck, I bet we could fund no kill shelters for horses just based on the amount of money wasted on welfare fraud.

    Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Huh?

    Taxing third parties are the 5 million dollars the citizens of this country have to cough up for USDA inspectors at the plant, to name one example.
    Exactly. Not to mention the fact inspectors tend to drop the ball on occasion so I'm not sure what good they are.

    Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Personal responsibility. If you can't afford the local euthanasia and disposal costs, you are NOT qualified financially to own a horse. These are not equal-opportunity animals, sorry. If I sound like a snob so be it. The same equation applies to the race tracks, the rodeos, the breeders.
    TAKE FREAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the horses you own. I reiterate that the only people either sending horses through a slaughter sale or turning them out loose are IRRESPONSIBLE people who either don't give a sh!t or are purely in it for money.
    You are so right. I've said on pretty much every one of these threads that slaughter is a cop out. It's not about renewable resources or feeding hot lunch to school children. It's an easy out for people who shouldn't have had horses to begin with or who want to get rid of the excess fuglys they continue to breed.

    Some countries consider dog meat a delicacy. If animals are a renewable resource, why not send our old and infirm dogs to a slaughterhouse?

    School lunch menu:

    Monday: Ham sandwiches
    Tuesday: Chicken nuggets
    Wednesday: Hamburgers
    Thursday: Horse stew
    Friday: Fried fido

    Pet over population problem solved, minus kitties.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

    Comment


    • If a horse has been "slaughtered"(euthanised), with chemicals it cannot be composted as it is now considered hazardous waste. This is the issue with th anti-slaughter campaign. You cannot just dispose with thousnads of pounds of flesh and hope nothing bad happens.
      I support equine meat processing as an option for those who choose to use it.

      Comment


      • ROFLMAO

        Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
        Or, the same side of a different coin, or what I like to call the Michael Vick argument:
        Abuse and cruelty should be allowed in the horse slaughter industry because there are lots of people who abuse horses.

        Even little children in Sunday School are taught that two wrongs don't make a right. (There, I beat you to it: the Jesus is on My Side argument!)

        The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
        H. Cate

        Comment


        • True - This is a problem. You used to be able to have a horse
          rendered but now it's getting difficult because the foreign countries know what we put in our horses - they don't want them.
          They are also led to believe that a "slaughtered/processed" horse is free of chemicals.
          I thought the "passport" system was supposed to be in place this July 2012. I am not sure.



          Originally posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
          If a horse has been "slaughtered"(euthanised), with chemicals it cannot be composted as it is now considered hazardous waste. This is the issue with th anti-slaughter campaign. You cannot just dispose with thousnads of pounds of flesh and hope nothing bad happens.
          The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
          H. Cate

          Comment


          • Many issues with water way rights environmentalists...rotting bodies seeping into water and well systems...that is their complaint.

            Bankruptcy, loss of employment and NOT able to sell their home to resize down due to market demise, increase in hay, grain..we saw first hand what happened with the last crash.

            Breeders HAVE reduced the number produced....of course there are exceptions...the ones always trotted out..but they are the exception.

            The issue is the almost ONE MILLION excess horses available since 2009.

            I have yet to hear A SOLUTION...other than be responsible..i.e. wear a condom but what do we do with that unwanted child...(if responsibility worked there would be no human adoptions)...make sure you have enough money in a horsey fund incase of a family emergency...example of closing the barn door AFTER the horse escaped.

            And interestingly enough...pro slaughter foks keep saying KEEP IT AS AN OPTION...it is NOT for everyone nor should it be. I have 11 Saddlebreds here with me..if I hit rough times it would cost me over SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS to have the vet euthanize them....as for getting a kindly neighbor to just shoot them...I like in a farming area...I have asked to get reactions and EVERYONE SAID .... NOPE.,... can't help you....they would NOT come and shoot 11 horses.

            Although Sunridge has implied on numerous occasions that I am financially involved in feedlots or slaughter plants it is not the truth..so I would not have an "in" with them

            HSUS and other "groups" understood completely what the cancellation of slaughter would do in the U.S. Reduce the value of ALL horses, get an excess...support legislation such as Oregon where a rescue can seize your horses, get the government to sell your assets to feed those horses BEFORE YOUR TRIAL..and then if you are found not guilty...not have to give you back the money NOR the horses...all of this is to frighten people away from equine ownership and participation.

            No American Horse of a French dining table was catchy but truly not relevant...not is the ongoing complaint about the American Slaughter industry...the PLANTS ARE CLOSED.

            Foster Homes and work shops for orphans was the norm in the past...that has all changed. I fail to see why slaughter houses can not operate under guidelines, monitoring and inspection. Restaurants, as previously mention do, as do senior homes (there are abuse cases but no one is advocating the closure of ALL senior facilities)

            Horses are no longer "fox meat" animals...every understands that...however compassion has NOTHING to do with designations such as "companion" ..

            So..again...Anti Slaughter WHAT ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS RIGHT NOW...here..today...that could solve or at the very least alieviate the problem over the next 60 days...as we are going to have a horrible situation this early winter with small bales of hay slated to sell for 20$...putting horses up for sale along with the other five thousand on Craigs list, Kijiji, Dream Horse, Horse Topia etc is not working as buyers are just holding back..the election...drought, lack of feed POTENTIAL...

            So...we know those superficial ideas about go sell your horse and breed no more are NOT going to solve the issue....

            WHAT SAY YOU?
            The Elephant in the room

            Comment


            • Horses are still being rendered, at least around here. Some counties in KY provide free pick up, others charge a really low fee.

              And yet, little old KY has a large number of KB's and KB suppliers compared to other states.
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
                True - This is a problem. You used to be able to have a horse
                rendered but now it's getting difficult because the foreign countries know what we put in our horses - they don't want them.
                They are also led to believe that a "slaughtered/processed" horse is free of chemicals.
                I thought the "passport" system was supposed to be in place this July 2012. I am not sure.
                Rendered horses were never designated for human consumption

                The passport is unreliable and too cumbersome...THAT is why feedlots are springing up...Horses are fed grass...hay..and finally grained before shipping...the first lots are coming north. Again..as they have been inspected AND have six months free of medicine they can be immediately slaughtered OR they can also be brokered when they arrive in Canada...due to the vast numbers..and the lower demand for horses, many great horses are not given an opportunity to be brokered.

                Drive through the country and look at any horse standing in a 1/2 acre pasture...no different than a feed lot...horse gets fed, watered...and that is it...the stabled horse is actually a minority
                The Elephant in the room

                Comment


                • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                  Horses are still being rendered, at least around here. Some counties in KY provide free pick up, others charge a really low fee.

                  And yet, little old KY has a large number of KB's and KB suppliers compared to other states.
                  I have a list of five counties in Kentucky and the going rate works out to be 35 - 90 dollars...depending on the weight of the animal. There may be some "free" companies but I haven't heard of them...hope that is true
                  The Elephant in the room

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                    So..again...Anti Slaughter WHAT ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS RIGHT NOW...here..today...that could solve or at the very least alieviate the problem over the next 60 days...
                    What is it with your 60 days?????

                    Breeders et al have had YEARS to find a solution, reduce numbers, only breed high quality equines.
                    Yet very few have made adjustments.
                    All the while AQHA continues to promote their piggy horses and increases their breeder incentive funds.

                    It's not like the topic of a possible ban on slaughter just came up.

                    And not like the economy tanked just yesterday.

                    They'll all wake up and scream $hit one day and claim they didn't see it coming?
                    ************************
                    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                      I have a list of five counties in Kentucky and the going rate works out to be 35 - 90 dollars...depending on the weight of the animal. There may be some "free" companies but I haven't heard of them...hope that is true
                      Nelson County is one of the feebies in my area. The rendering Co. invoices the County, they pay the bill. Kind of keeping the AG farmers happy.

                      Most everyone I know of having had a horse put down though, dug a hole in their or a friend's back forty.

                      My horses will be put in the ground at my deer hunting neighbor's when the time comes. Along with some of his cattle he has burried there.
                      ************************
                      \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post

                        So..again...Anti Slaughter WHAT ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS RIGHT NOW...here..today...that could solve or at the very least alieviate the problem over the next 60 days...as we are going to have a horrible situation this early winter with small bales of hay slated to sell for 20$...putting horses up for sale along with the other five thousand on Craigs list, Kijiji, Dream Horse, Horse Topia etc is not working as buyers are just holding back..the election...drought, lack of feed POTENTIAL...

                        So...we know those superficial ideas about go sell your horse and breed no more are NOT going to solve the issue....

                        WHAT SAY YOU?
                        I never implied any such thing. I may have just said it, however.

                        I am not an engineer nor a horse behavior specialist. However, I do not see anything that could be right about the current way in N. America. Sorry it's not there. I have the type/breed/bloodline/lifestyle of horse that would not do well in ANY of the pipeline.

                        They are Saddlebred's for CS, long legged, alert, smart and would go through fire to get where they want to go. Holy crap don't even think you can stop them once their mind is made up. It's a positive and negative trait. You can point them at anything and they will go or die trying. They also can be a royal PITA or challenge (I prefer challenge), in the keeping/housing department

                        A co-op of abbatoirs could/maybe, IDK, work. Someone would have to do a market analysis to know details. I'd be all for that and a bag chips. I/me/the owner could physically and personally deliver my own horse. Or even hire someone else who could. Hell DH/DW could do it for you. You load the horse say your goodbyes and the unattached trusted spouse or friend that could make sure it happens. The *carcasses* could then be transferred to a processing facility. That is what I want.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                          Personal responsibility. If you can't afford the local euthanasia and disposal costs, you are NOT qualified financially to own a horse.
                          wait. Stuff happens. So if stuff happens (let's say I lose my job) and I can't afford the euth and disposal costs....

                          will YOU come get my horses?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
                            wait. Stuff happens. So if stuff happens (let's say I lose my job) and I can't afford the euth and disposal costs....

                            will YOU come get my horses?

                            Stuff happens, yup. But does that mean you're gonna send your kids down the road? (let's say you didn't own a horse)

                            Slaughter houses process horses based on demand, not supply.
                            So if everyone who's lost their job would plan to send their horses off to the KB's, it ain't gonna happen.

                            There are some euth funds being offered already. We definitely could use more of those.

                            Also, some orgs will give temp feed funding to those who have been laid off or cannot work due to an unexpected illness.

                            So using the bad economy as a reason to promote continued abuse in the slaughter pipeline just isn't gonna fly.
                            ************************
                            \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                            Comment


                            • Has the lack of slaughter plants in the US actually improved the life of horses in general in the US. If yes then wonderful, if no, then an incredibly stupid waste of energy and funds.

                              Comment


                              • In 60 days you could have U.S. slaughter plants up and running..There is such a demand that ALL of the excess horses could be sent to Europe. China has a huge new market. The more horses, the lower the purchase price on them...the fewer horses, the higher price.

                                I was surprised to discover that after AQHA the largest number of horses sent to slaughter are "warm blood type" or in other words..big boned tall mongrels..with fancy breed names..usually three and under with NO training.

                                The NO training is a major problem within the industry

                                Spaying horses is too expensive however I would like to see some form of registry incentives for gelding.

                                Just for the record...I am AGAINST A.I. and ET.

                                My reasons: AI has killed sales. Used to be that if I wanted to breed to a stallion in Kentucky I had to ship my mare...board...big expense...however the breeding farms made money and employed unskilled workers. If I couldn't afford to ship and breed I PURCHASED A COLT as I would be able to stand it at stud in my area. THAT was also good for the breeder who was selling or standing stallions at stud

                                ET..example..a Broodmare Hall of Fame is a VERY PRESTIGIOUS TITLE...until now....we have mares who have 3-5 foals in ONE YEAR...By the time that mare is 15 years old she may have had 35 foals and because THEY are out of a BHF...they tend to sell and be bred..

                                Other groups have the same problems. The AQHA bowed to the lawsuit....should have stood firm as the TB industry did.

                                We also need old time trainers who just train the colt to ride...nothing fancy and NOT charging 2000$. Just get them started...buyers WILL do the rest...

                                To demonstrate how breeding has cut back...there is now a concern with genetic diversity within the Arabian Horse breed. There are not enough foals produced yearly..

                                Again..SLAUGHTER AS AN OPTION
                                The Elephant in the room

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                  Stuff happens, yup. But does that mean you're gonna send your kids down the road? (let's say you didn't own a horse)

                                  Slaughter houses process horses based on demand, not supply.
                                  So if everyone who's lost their job would plan to send their horses off to the KB's, it ain't gonna happen.

                                  There are some euth funds being offered already. We definitely could use more of those.

                                  Also, some orgs will give temp feed funding to those who have been laid off or cannot work due to an unexpected illness.

                                  So using the bad economy as a reason to promote continued abuse in the slaughter pipeline just isn't gonna fly.
                                  I was addressing the responsibility issue brought up by SY. Please do not compare my children to horses. That isn't even apples and oranges. Horses are livestock and my kids aren't.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                    Stuff happens, yup. But does that mean you're gonna send your kids down the road? (let's say you didn't own a horse)

                                    Slaughter houses process horses based on demand, not supply.
                                    So if everyone who's lost their job would plan to send their horses off to the KB's, it ain't gonna happen.

                                    There are some euth funds being offered already. We definitely could use more of those.

                                    Also, some orgs will give temp feed funding to those who have been laid off or cannot work due to an unexpected illness.

                                    So using the bad economy as a reason to promote continued abuse in the slaughter pipeline just isn't gonna fly.
                                    I did predict long ago, when animal rights followers kept insisting on a ban and got the plants closed in the USA, that we would end up with animal control or similar killing horse wholesale, just as we do small animals.

                                    Sorry, I don't see that as a sensible solution at all for those horses that we could have used one more time once dead, the ones slaughter uses.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                      The issue is the almost ONE MILLION excess horses available since 2009.
                                      There aren't 1 million excess horses...

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
                                        wait. Stuff happens. So if stuff happens (let's say I lose my job) and I can't afford the euth and disposal costs....

                                        will YOU come get my horses?
                                        Why is an owner's loss of a job an automatic ticket to the rainbow bridge for a horse?

                                        Here in Northern California, there are a couple of rescues that hold low cost gelding and euthanasia clinics funded by donations.

                                        It's a great concept that can work, if people want it to.

                                        Why isn't the AQHA supporting this option?

                                        I'm tired of people whining that there are no alternatives. There are, and they are called get off your butts and try!
                                        Last edited by jenm; Sep. 1, 2012, 12:53 AM. Reason: added a sentance
                                        Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
                                          wait. Stuff happens. So if stuff happens (let's say I lose my job) and I can't afford the euth and disposal costs....

                                          will YOU come get my horses?
                                          Do you not have an emergency savings account? If not, you might want to cut back on horses now, and work on building one. Horses are a luxury. Having a 6 mo to a yr emergency savings, and health ins are generally considered to be requirements to be in a financially sound position. I know not everybody feels that way, but it might be something to think about now, rather than waiting. Everyone should have some emergency plan for what happens if they lose their job, spouse loses job, they get really ill, or they die. They should have some type of plan made for those that depend on them, whether it is a spouse, kids or animals. (Perhaps you were just asking hypothetically, and have all that already, and if so, I misread your question...)

                                          And why is the pro slaughter side ignoring that having a slaughter house practically next door didn't prevent the largest horse neglect case in TX (owned by a vet). And if slaughter being available easisly prevented neglect, why are there still horses being starved in my city, where there is a KB auction once a month, and a free horse ad on CL would have 5 or 6 people showing up that day? Not to mention, KB do not buy emaciated horses, or crippled horses. So what are all of these people who "lost their job" going to do if a horse drops dead in their pasture or breaks it's leg in it's pasture? Are you really believing that all of the horses going to slaughter are owned by jobless people that have no options, and would starve the horse if it didn't go to slaughter?
                                          And if banning slaughter is "Nothing but a means to get donations by AR groups" then it seems like the pro side would push to ban it, so the AR fundraising would lose one of it's main generators of income.

                                          Comment

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