• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Why barbed wire and horses don't mix

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why barbed wire and horses don't mix

    At the horse rescue in So Cal a little while back, a horse with pretty severe wire cuts came in and is still going through rehab. I made it a point when scouting out horse property in my relocation that there is NO barbed wire. Nasty stuff my friends. I think I moved to the barbed wire capital of the world and not even being here 2 months I've already heard of several frightening local stories about people keeping horses in barbed wire.

    And I'm spending obnoxious amounts of time making sure all my new pastures are safe. I thought no barbed wire was a no brainer?!?

    Anyhow- come across this CL ad, plea for help. Forget the hay damn it- I'll help her take down the barbed wire!

    http://bham.craigslist.org/grd/3205078110.html

  • #2
    Oh my God!
    Proud member of the COTH Junior (and Junior-at-Heart!) clique!

    Comment


    • #3
      One of my aunt's, I believe, horses got tangled in barbed wire when she was younger (before I was born). By the time anyone realized there was something wrong the horse was long gone.
      The Sempiternal Horse

      Comment


      • #4
        You ought to put the blame where blame is due, with the owner that had a mare where it would want to kick at other horses across a fence, any fence.
        I expect her kicking any fence would have resulted in injuries.

        Barbed wire has it's place, as millions of horses have lived and are living safely behind it still today, but of course you have to manage for it properly.
        Barbed wire is not for small areas or where horses may fight or definitely not where there are horses across from each other.
        I have seen injuries by most any kind of fences, even from horses kicking the walls in supposedly safe stalls.

        You don't put a horse, any horse, across from another with any but very solid and safe fences and don't sooner or later have some injuries.
        Best is not to go there, have a lane between horse pastures.

        Best luck to get the mare healed well, any such injuries take much time and good management to get over.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SuperSTB View Post
          I thought no barbed wire was a no brainer?!?
          Don't tell my two about problems with barbed wire. They live in it 24x7 and have for a few years now (one most of her life).

          As Bluey said, prudent use is not a problem.
          No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. - Eleanor Roosevelt
          For you to insult me, I must first value your opinion - Unknown
          Pleasure Portrait 1989-2016...sleep well my girl

          Comment


          • #6
            I feel your pain, but agree 110% with Bluey. My gelding lived in a huge pasture with cows, 24/7, for nearly three years, on five strand barb wire and the only issue I ever had was he'd get little bumps on the underside of his neck from trying to reach over and get treats from the ignorant-but-tried-hard property owner.

            At one point I had him and my older show Arab boarded at an old dairy farm. Paddocks were wood fence with cattle panel on top, or straight round pen-type panels. Pasture was all old barb wire, and had machinery in it. When I moved in, I convinced/helped the BO to move the more dangerous machinery to the cow pasture, then we moved the rest so there was enough space all the way around it in case a horse got the bright idea of sneaking behind it. Horses were kept in their paddocks during the day/night except for a couple of hours in the early evening when BO would get home from work and turn everyone out in the pasture. Never saw a fence-related injury.

            First barn I ever boarded at had plain hot wire as pasture fencing with "temporary" (aka never moved) electric tape as a divider in the middle. Horses were turned out, gender segregated, all day. Never saw an injury.

            The worst fence injury I've ever seen was on plain hot wire. A gelding rolled too close to fence and got tangled up in it, and pretty much sliced everything. He could barely walk, but after several months of rehabbing and daily bandage changes he's back to normal. The hot wire was already in the process of being replaced by tape, but they hadn't gotten to that specific pasture yet.

            Common sense (and a bit of luck) has to be applied to fencing. Depends on the horses and the size of the area.
            runnjump86 Instagram

            Horse Junkies United guest blogger

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm seeing the same arguments as those who don't wear helmets . . . "Well, I've done it this way all my life and *I* haven't had problems," and of course my personal favorite "Doing it your way won't prevent ALL accidents so what's the point?"

              The only difference is that a person gets a say in whether they wear a helmet or not; horses don't get a say in what kind of fencing their owner sticks them in. (For the record, I don't care what informed adults wear or don't wear on their heads. I care what kind of fence horses get stuck in.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Horsie View Post
                I'm seeing the same arguments as those who don't wear helmets . . . "Well, I've done it this way all my life and *I* haven't had problems," and of course my personal favorite "Doing it your way won't prevent ALL accidents so what's the point?"

                The only difference is that a person gets a say in whether they wear a helmet or not; horses don't get a say in what kind of fencing their owner sticks them in. (For the record, I don't care what informed adults wear or don't wear on their heads. I care what kind of fence horses get stuck in.)
                Not really. I see this as some don't know how to manage barbed wire fences, some may live where they can run one horse per acre and think that is easy to fence with other than barbed wire and yes, in one acre "pasture", barbed wire would be more apt to end up with a horse hitting the fence, not really enough place to get away from it.

                Now, if you live as we do here, where it takes a good 30 acres for one horse, where our pasture fences are measured in several to many miles, well, barbed wire fences make sense.

                As already mentioned, you do have to manage well no matter where you fence your horses and if you are not familiar with barbed wire and don't know how to keep horses behind it, of course, don't do it.

                We don't really know the whole story here.
                How many horses they had there, was another horse right across the fence, hard to believe if that was a barbed wire fence, common sense tells you not to do that and so much more we don't know.

                Accidents happen easily enough with horses, but honestly, we have had barbed wire fences here for over 100 years and extremely few horses, a handful or so, have been injured over those years.
                I would say, don't use barbwire fence if your situation is not right for it or you don't know how to manage it, but don't think others that use it don't know what they are doing.

                Our vets will say that, with most horses around here behind barbed wire and yes, some times there are bad injuries from it, the worst injuries are from smooth wires, that the horses don't even realize are doing damage to themselves.
                With barbed wire, at least a horse will respect it a bit more.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Poor mare!
                  Free bar.ka and tidy rabbit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    Now, if you live as we do here, where it takes a good 30 acres for one horse, where our pasture fences are measured in several to many miles, well, barbed wire fences make sense..
                    I don't really see this as an argument. Am I correct in my understanding that you're basically saying that barbed wire is cheap and easy, which makes it more practical for large spaces, and therefore it's suitable horse fencing?

                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    As already mentioned, you do have to manage well no matter where you fence your horses and if you are not familiar with barbed wire and don't know how to keep horses behind it, of course, don't do it.
                    How does one become familiar enough with barbed wire to, in your eyes, become a qualified user?

                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    We don't really know the whole story here.
                    How many horses they had there, was another horse right across the fence, hard to believe if that was a barbed wire fence, common sense tells you not to do that and so much more we don't know.
                    Right. But all the variables aside, I can't imagine another type of fencing that would do the damage barbed wire does. Changing any of the other factors that led to the horse kicking through the fence is good, but at the end of the day you're still putting a horse in some of the most dangerous fencing available.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Horsie View Post
                      I don't really see this as an argument. Am I correct in my understanding that you're basically saying that barbed wire is cheap and easy, which makes it more practical for large spaces, and therefore it's suitable horse fencing?



                      How does one become familiar enough with barbed wire to, in your eyes, become a qualified user?



                      Right. But all the variables aside, I can't imagine another type of fencing that would do the damage barbed wire does. Changing any of the other factors that led to the horse kicking through the fence is good, but at the end of the day you're still putting a horse in some of the most dangerous fencing available.
                      You are assuming a generalized barbed wire fencing is "some of the most dangerous fencing available", according to whom?
                      For the millions of horses and a century now pastured behind barbed wire fences, I would guess there are considerably less injuries than are in the East smaller pastures.
                      Why?
                      One reason could be maybe because of the size of the pastures.
                      I have lived in both places and we hardly ever had an accident here, compared with more often in the East.

                      In 40 years, my neighbor has not had not one horse injured behind barbed wire, but had one yearling colt in a pipe pen try to jump the gate, flip and break his neck.
                      Accidents just happens some times.

                      You see, there is more to barbed wire than you have given it some thought quite yet.

                      I agree that if you can have other kinds of more substantial fences, there is less risk if a horse were to hit the fence.
                      I don't agree that the risk is that much more to be alarmed because so many do use barbed wire.
                      They are fine there, managed right and lucky too, as they are behind any other fences.

                      My question is, how many horses have you managed behind barbed wire fences, to be so sure it is evil?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would never board anywhere that had barbed wire. Of course, I'm in CA, and "pasture" usually means a small dry lot pen.

                        I recently looked at a barn in my area. They advertise heavily, offer training, lessons, etc. $350 per horse for a roughly 4,000 sq ft pen. I got there and the top strand (at about face level for the horse) was barbed wire! I was floored. It wasn't even old barbed wire. It looked relatively new. What's wrong with hot tape? Needless to say, that was a deal breaker.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                          You are assuming a generalized barbed wire fencing is "some of the most dangerous fencing available", according to whom?
                          To an AWFUL lot of people . . . don't act surprised. This is not some radical new concept I'm suggesting.

                          For the millions of horses and a century now pastured behind barbed wire fences, I would guess there are considerably less injuries than are in the East smaller pastures.
                          Why?
                          One reason could be maybe because of the size of the pastures.
                          OK, but all else being equal (size and setup of the pasture etc) the barbed wire is still more dangerous than other types of fencing.

                          You see, there is more to barbed wire than you have given it some thought quite yet.
                          ??

                          My question is, how many horses have you managed behind barbed wire fences, to be so sure it is evil?
                          I don't have to have experience doing something reckless to know that it's a bad idea. I won't ever put a horse behind fencing that often results in injuries I can't bear to look at.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have always been a no barbed wire and always ride with my helmet. Saying that my two retirees are in 30 acres fenced with, barbed wire. How I don't really like that part of it but they seem to be getting their scrapes from other horses. My big horse would bend and break pipe corrals and hot wire seems as dangerous. I pray every night my horses use good judgement and take care of themselves.
                            Live in the sunshine.
                            Swim in the sea.
                            Drink the wild air.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Horsie View Post
                              To an AWFUL lot of people . . . don't act surprised. This is not some radical new concept I'm suggesting.



                              OK, but all else being equal (size and setup of the pasture etc) the barbed wire is still more dangerous than other types of fencing.



                              ??



                              I don't have to have experience doing something reckless to know that it's a bad idea. I won't ever put a horse behind fencing that often results in injuries I can't bear to look at.
                              You are right, you don't have any experience with barbed wire fencing for horses, so what you have to say is an uneducated opinion, really.

                              In 40 years, up to 50 broodmares and stallions and their offspring, training many horses, we had one foal on the other side of the fence after a storm one night with a shallow cut low on her neck, that healed without even a scar.
                              We had a yearling filly that was not quite right, had always been a bit strange.
                              One morning she had some long but very light cuts on her neck, that didn't require stitches and one very small cut on her hind leg that took four.
                              We think she went too close to the fence, but could have been injured running thru the brush, or both.
                              We also had once a gelding that had some light cuts that just needed spraying, that was running with other geldings and missed his turn on the fence.

                              A short handful of many, many horses that were injured in several decades.
                              I wonder how many behind other kinds of fences have been that safe?

                              Mind you, any injury, barbed wire fence or any other, can be serious.
                              Guess that we were lucky for all those years and horses, as most everyone around here is.

                              I put well managed horses behind barbed wire fences about like driving down the highway, some of those measured risks we all take.
                              Sooner or later you will have some injury, no matter what you do with your horse, no matter what fences you have, no matter how safely you drive down the highway.
                              The laws of average at play.

                              Now, if you are where you can manage without barbed wire, great.
                              If you are where barbed wire is the best option, just be sure you stack the odds in your horse's favor by managing properly and hoping you stay lucky, just like you have to do with any other fencing out there.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                On huge plots of land, how do you expect people to fence it?
                                I would not use it,but I'm on a small plot of land, and can do board fence with coated wire on the inside.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  You are right, you don't have any experience with barbed wire fencing for horses, so what you have to say is an uneducated opinion, really.
                                  Do I have to have first-hand experience with drunk driving to know that that's a bad idea?

                                  I still haven't gotten an answer from you about what makes somone qualified and gives them sufficient experience to have horses behind barbed wire.

                                  I can deal with someone shrugging and saying that barbed wire is the only feasible option for the large space they have. I can't deal with the argument that "only feasible option" equates to "acceptable and safe."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Agreed, barbed wire would not be my 1st choice but having just spent $11k on doing 3 sides of our property in no-climb horse mesh, the 4th side - barbed wire, will just have to wait a while.

                                    There is the simple economics that comes into everything - if you have a 50 acres field which has roughly 7,200 feet of fence plus gates, around here you would be looking at about $35k to fence it with no-climb horse mesh. For most people that is going to be out of reach, no matter how much you might want to do it.

                                    Like others, I turn my guys out on a 50 acres cattle field that is tight, well maintained barbed wire the whole way around. When you have a massive field like that, with no animals on adjacent sides, the chances of the horses going up to the fence anyway are considerably reduced, unlike if you have them in a one acre pasture immediately adjacent to another pasture.

                                    My worst accident ever has been with a mesh cattle panel - I will never, ever use those again, tore the horse's leg right to the bone.

                                    Having just got back from the UK (and just finished spending all that money fencing here) I was very cognizant of the fact that virtually every horse fence I saw, in boarding facilities and private facilities had 3 strand straight wire and 2 strand barbed wire - damn Brits - they obviously need to be informed how they are all doing it wrong!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I'm not a fan of barbed wire for horses, but I'm in CT and we have small paddocks compared to other places.

                                      I can fence my small turnouts in really nice, safe(ish) non-barbed wire.

                                      If I had to fence even only a 10 acre area, that's 2640 linear feet.

                                      Where I had horses as a kid was barbed wire fencing. 10+ years there, 100s of horses...one fence related injury. And it was on the metal gate, not the barbed wire fence. (and it was my horse, go figure)

                                      I would never use it in small areas or as cross fencing. But it's not the devil itself and is necessary for enormous tracts of land. Those of us with less than a hundred acres fenced really can't get judgey about it. *Very* few people can afford to fence hundreds of acres in board or no-climb or whatever.

                                      And FWIW, I've known lots of horses that were injured on "safe" fencing. A few degloved legs from board fencing, seen up close, would make you think board fencing is the worst ever.

                                      Let's face it...these big beautiful animals wipe themselves out on whatever is handy. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if I saw a post on a horse that was injured or killed by a cotton ball.
                                      You jump in the saddle,
                                      Hold onto the bridle!
                                      Jump in the line!
                                      ...Belefonte

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Horsie View Post
                                        Do I have to have first-hand experience with drunk driving to know that that's a bad idea?

                                        I still haven't gotten an answer from you about what makes somone qualified and gives them sufficient experience to have horses behind barbed wire.

                                        I can deal with someone shrugging and saying that barbed wire is the only feasible option for the large space they have. I can't deal with the argument that "only feasible option" equates to "acceptable and safe."
                                        Did you read Bluey's last post? Hmmm, 40 years with > 50 broodmares sounds like a decent amount of experience to be qualified on barbed wire fencing. From what Bluey said it sounds like his/her fencing is perfectly "acceptable and safe".

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X