Fed Up, WWYD?

[ptownevt]

DD was out this past week due to illness.

[ptownevt]

When OP's horse decided that water drinking was overrated, I made the effort to stay on top of the situation, including checking on him late at night, and following the OP's direction of how she wanted to remedy the situation.

Isn't it part of the routine to do night checks? And, how come you didn't refill his bucket when you found he had drunk it? He then went all night without water available.

[Superminion]

Well, it seems to me that the BO rubs the OP the wrong way. Happens. Might not be anything glaringly wrong, but there it is. The little things add up.

but as professional you can always contact the other party 'hey, sucks that we can't make it this week, we got the lessons on the book' before you leave for another trip. Did it happen?
Who knows. teens are notorious for not relaying messages. But I am guessing there is more to the OPs story than even your side.

But I am guessing since the cat is out of the bag now, it will only be a matter of time until things come to a head at the barn.

(btw, how is your knee doing?)

Great post.

I just don't want BO run down. She has done a lot for me and I'm very loyal to her.

The knee is okay, thanks for asking! Lots of physical therapy for now, and another ortho appointment to hopefully get things sorted out!

[alternate_universe]

I'm not a fan of these sorts of set ups for this very reason. They get confusing, lines are blurred, and people end up feeling ripped off or used. I went through a similar situation myself, all through high school and half of college. It started out as "work for lessons". One day of work for one lesson. Well, a myriad of unfortunate happenings and generally poor barn management eventually lead to me being the only person there who would reliably do any work, year round. And those lessons? Yeah, not really happening. I really did adore that trainer too. However, as someone else brought up, it was because she pretty much told everyone that they should like her and that no other local trainer were as good as her. Kinda like brainwashing, huh?

I finally bailed last summer. It was REALLY hard because I had no idea what the horse world outside of that barn was like. I didn't know any other trainers or have any friends in other barns. But I am so much happier to just be paying for my lessons. Totally clear cut there. I get a legitimate lesson when I expect one and consequently, I have made much more progress in the past 11 months than I did in the last couple years of my time in the previous barn.

I agree that your DD should experience some other trainers and consider a different set up. However, if she doesn't feel like she's being cheated or used, then I doubt you'll convince her to leave. Teens seem to get very attached to their trainers pretty easily. You might just have to bite your tongue for now. She might get tired of the slave labor in a few years.

[Superminion]

Isn't it part of the routine to do night checks? And, how come you didn't refill his bucket when you found he had drunk it? He then went all night without water available.

One check after dinner, yes. Multiple checks, no. He never went all night without water readily avaliable, none of them do.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation, before it gets out of hand. If you had a problem with the way I did things, then please, speak to me as an adult, in person, or relay your concerns to BO.

[Laurierace]

I have tried multiple times to work this out with trainer with no success. Horses are moving August 1.

Keep in mind that Superminion knows where her bread is buttered. Perhaps she should not be quite so out there with how wonderfully generous trainer is to her. I won't get into it with her here because there's no point. Just one item, trainer did not give five figure schoolmaster to DD. Trainer was supposed to sell schoolmaster but did not accomplish that. Horse was given to DD as she had been riding him for about a year of that time.

She didn't give her the horse but the horse was given to her? Huh?

[ptownevt]

Trainer did not own the horse; she was supposed to sell him but did not. After a long time, the owner just wanted to be out from under the horse.

[LauraKY]

One check after dinner, yes. Multiple checks, no. He never went all night without water readily avaliable, none of them do.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation, before it gets out of hand. If you had a problem with the way I did things, then please, speak to me as an adult, in person, or relay your concerns to BO.

If there was an admire button, you would get it. Nicely handled.

[ptownevt]

Since this seems to have gotten out of hand, I'm done.

[JackieBlue]

If no money changed hands, then BO absolutely GAVE "the schoolmaster" to your daughter. A decision she may well be regretting if your daughter is equally ungrateful.
And we wonder where all of these entitled youngsters come from?? I'm guessing OP will have similar problems at the new barn. Shame, cause it sounds like this trainer limes the daughter.

[Laurierace]

Unfortunately I think you are done in more ways that one. I hope you are able to work out a way that your daughter can get instruction in the near future.

[sketcher]

I'm starting to feel bad for DD. Hopefully the trainer likes the kid enough to continue what sounds like a good thing for the both of them - nice free horse and lessons vs barnwork (also gaining experience).

When I was a teen I did an awful of of free labor for NOTHING in return just for the sheer love of it. I also got taken advantage of but in the long run that taught me some important life lessons as well and I'm glad I did not have a parent to run interference for me.

[FalseImpression]

what Ptownevt is trying to explain... the BO did not give the horse to DD as she did not own the horse, the owner of the horse did! Is it that hard to understand? so now, you are all going to cry that poor BO missed on a commission.. because she could not sell the horse... after many months?

[JackieBlue]

Weird. Just weird. Who said word one about a commission? I'm certain that the trainer/BO had quite a say in where the horse ended up. Either way, your lack of appreciation does nothing favorable for you.

[HungarianHippo]

OP, if you're still reading--
Regarding the issue of your daughter's work not being compensated in the form of reduced board (or at least in being able to trust that the free lessons will indeed materialize):
A lot of the frustration seems to be that you are paying just as much as Joe Schmoe, when your daughter is doing all this work. So let's boil that down to the bare essence: at age 15, your daughter is old enough to start contributing, in at least tiny way, to further her very expensive hobby. That is completely fair, even if finances weren't tight. Instead of using the BO as the intermediary for that conversation (DD works for BO whom you then pressure for a discount), why not have that conversation directly with DD?
I'll pay for your board and a bi-weekly lesson schedule. You need to finance your show entry fees, trailering and any additional lessons. (Just as an example). If she really values showing and lessons, she will learn for herself that volunteering for the BO does not pay for her horse shows. She'll learn that she needs to be paid *reliably* in order to get what she wants-- which might mean taking an off-farm "real" job. Or, she will not pursue the shows and additional lessons, in which case you'll know that it wasn't vitally important to her. That's her decision, and the lesson will stick with her far longer because the value of her work becomes very tangible and real.

[nightsong]

The issue is that we are stretched beyond the breaking point financially. That's why we have worked off board

When you can't afford horses, you shouldn't HAVE horses. Trying support horses and trainers on the back of a 15-year-old sounds particularly egregious.

[Ambitious Kate]

When you can't afford horses, you shouldn't HAVE horses. Trying support horses and trainers on the back of a 15-year-old sounds particularly egregious.

That's what its starting to sound like, a bit.

[trubandloki]

Sounds to me like DD's getting good instruction and enjoying the feeling of responsibility. How many of us worked our butts off at barns, BECAUSE WE LIKED IT. When you're a kid it was really cool to be responsible for weekend feedings--in the same way it's cool to be the lifeguard at the pool. Having earned a position of trust and authority, putting in more hours than you're paid for, and dedication to doing a good job regardless your salary, are really damn valuable traits in the workforce. Nothing more offputting than these young grads entering the workforce who think they don't need to prove themselves, they should be rewarded and stroked just for being special (without having to actually, um, demonstrate it).

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

It sounds like you may wish to clarify your agreement, but frankly, it doesn't sound as if you're being egregiously taken advantage of. A 15 year old kid might be helpful but is not the same thing as a responsible adult from an employment perspective.

So true.

what Ptownevt is trying to explain... the BO did not give the horse to DD as she did not own the horse, the owner of the horse did! Is it that hard to understand?

No, but I read it that the owner of the horse said she was done with it and left the horse with the BO. The owner of the horse did not say 'give the horse to DD'. The BO gave the horse to the DD.

A lot of the frustration seems to be that you are paying just as much as Joe Schmoe, when your daughter is doing all this work. So let's boil that down to the bare essence: at age 15, your daughter is old enough to start contributing, in at least tiny way, to further her very expensive hobby. That is completely fair, even if finances weren't tight. Instead of using the BO as the intermediary for that conversation (DD works for BO whom you then pressure for a discount), why not have that conversation directly with DD?
I'll pay for your board and a bi-weekly lesson schedule. You need to finance your show entry fees, trailering and any additional lessons. (Just as an example). If she really values showing and lessons, she will learn for herself that volunteering for the BO does not pay for her horse shows. She'll learn that she needs to be paid *reliably* in order to get what she wants-- which might mean taking an off-farm "real" job. Or, she will not pursue the shows and additional lessons, in which case you'll know that it wasn't vitally important to her. That's her decision, and the lesson will stick with her far longer because the value of her work becomes very tangible and real.

I think this is a great idea.


The whole thread to me sounds like the issue is with the DD not the BO.
I would bet the kid does not mind working for nothing and the lessons she gets and the extra ride time she gets training the youngster(s) is a bonus.
The mother is annoyed by this whole set up but instead of being annoyed with the DD for getting into it she is annoyed the BO.

Something very telling was the OP moving her horse(s) to this barn before she knew for a fact that she could work off board there and then being upset when she was not given the ability to work off board.

I do hope the DD is not totally stuck now that her mother has had a temper tantrum on the internet.

[BeeHoney]

I think this thread illustrates another reason why it is bad business for trainers to allow clients to work off part of their bills. Invariably it devalues the trainer's work and clients are ultimately less appreciative. (I'm just going to add as an aside here that I wouldn't take on a 15 year old worker at my barn even if the parents paid ME.)

I have to admit that if a trainer I know used their hard-earned professional contacts and reputation to arrange a situation whereby I ended up the recipient of a very nice horse for free, I'd be extremely grateful to the trainer and the owner both.

In fact, based on everything that has come out on this thread, I think it might be worth it for the OP to think for a minute about her current trainer. The daughter is receiving great instruction, is really enjoying her riding, the trainer has helped arrange a situation where the daughter was given a nice horse for free, the trainer is allowing the daughter rides on other nice horses... I'm guess I'm just saying, not every trainer is so generous. So the work situation hasn't met with your satisfaction (even though your daughter is happy with it). I think it is worth considering making amends and maybe just stop doing the work-for-lessons thing.

[SonnysMom]

It sounds like our truth is somewhere in between OP and other CoTH member's versions.

While the horse may be a great schoolmaster there may be a reason that the trainer couldn't sell the horse. OP and her DD may well be doing a favor to the former owner/trainer also. Not everybody is in the position to take on a horse that may need maintenance or that may not be sound long term. If the trainer couldn't sell the horse and now the horse is free to DD it is unlikely the horse is worth mid five figures as stated elsewhere on this thread. I obviously don't know why the horse couldn't be sold and why the horse became a give away but many schoolmasters have maintenance or soundness issues.

If trainer only has 3 students, as stated, then being given a free schoolmaster may be more of a financial burden to the trainer than a bonus. It may have been advantageous for her to have a student/boarder take the horse and remove him from her payroll. Therefore the trainer giving or facilitating giving the schoolmaster to DD may not be as altruistic as people are assuming. It may just have been a win/win situation for all parties- former owner, trainer, horse, DD.

It is a shame that this is now all being aired on a bulletin board and likely there will be ugly fall-out for the daughter.

I do think that DD, OP and training need to sit down together to discuss a resolution. I think OP needs to try to hold her tongue and let DD do as much of the talking as possible. This way OP can be in the loop on exactly what has been agreed upon. DD is a minor and I think this situation is different than DD going to work for McDonalds. McDonald's is covered by child labor laws, workers compensation, written corporate policy etc...

I think at that age any parent has the responsiblity to make sure that their child is not being taken advantage of by the employer. In other employment situations there are laws to help the parent make sure that does not happen. In a working student type situation those laws do not apply. Therefore it falls back to the parent to make sure there child is not taken advantage of. IMO allowing a child to be taken advantage of, even if the child doesn't feel that way, does a disservice to that child. I think it sends the message that employers, friends, mentors are allowed to break their word and it is no big deal.
If, in fact, the trainer is routinely shorting DD the lessons she has earned is this a business model and moral model OP wants her daughter to be continously exposed to?