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  • #41
    Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    You also don't know the backstory on the chestnut, posted earlier in this thread.
    I read it after the fact. I don't care to argue about it because I've never been involved in these topics and I think it has a bigger back story than I care to learn. But oddly, I live in an Amish territory and there are a whole bunch of horses that look exactly like that working hard and there isn't anyone raising a raucous for them. My daughter learned to recognize the gimpy Amish horses at about 5 years old....we'd drive down the road and she'd say, "Lame! Lame! Sound. Lame!" as we passed them by.

    Comment

    • #42
      Personally, I think photo #2 is photoshopped. Exaggerated highlights to accentuate ribs, implying the horse is more thin than one would first guess.

      And yes, OP is a pot stirring troll.

      Comment

      • #43
        Originally posted by Sansena View Post
        Personally, I think photo #2 is photoshopped. Exaggerated highlights to accentuate ribs, implying the horse is more thin than one would first guess.

        And yes, OP is a pot stirring troll.
        Yes.

        There was something wrong about the photo. Nicely muscled butt with some really oddly accentuated highlights that looked wrong. I thought so too. Glad I'm not the only one.
        My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Ambitious Kate View Post
          Yes.

          There was something wrong about the photo. Nicely muscled butt with some really oddly accentuated highlights that looked wrong. I thought so too. Glad I'm not the only one.
          I hadn't thought about that possibility, but now that you mention it, the second photo very definitely has been manipulated. Either the contrast has been upped, or highlights added.

          And yes, the horse is nicely muscled in person.

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          • #45
            The only part of the chestnut that I can see as being thin is the ribs. The neck, haunches and belly look fine. For the bay, he looks like he may have an atrophied back which could mean he would carry his weight differently and would have to be obese for his ribs not to show.

            As a person whose ribs show, I really do not get why ribs seem to be the main focus of judging weight/health. I also do not get why fat is seen as healthier than thin...I would be more concerned about an obese horse having to work. Or a horse with crappy feet, bad teeth, or poorly fitting harnesses/tack.

            I think that perception of what is healthy in horses is skewed ("fat and sassy" being a term that annoys me). Thin/ribby in itself is not a sign of poor health or poor care.
            Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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            • #46
              Okay, I didn't want to get into it (lol) but the "ribs" on the 1st and 2nd shot are going the wrong direction/angle aren't they? They don't jive with that horses conformation. Maybe it's just the weird effects they added.

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              • #47
                michaleenflynn and thedrafthorse, Thank you for the back story on those horses. Makes much more sense to know the context of the pictures.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                  Okay, I didn't want to get into it (lol) but the "ribs" on the 1st and 2nd shot are going the wrong direction/angle aren't they? They don't jive with that horses conformation. Maybe it's just the weird effects they added.
                  Ah, thanks, I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.2


                  Nice thing to come home to after a busy week...

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by CHT View Post
                    The only part of the chestnut that I can see as being thin is the ribs. The neck, haunches and belly look fine. ... Thin/ribby in itself is not a sign of poor health or poor care.
                    And *that's* why the Henneke BCS is the *average* of SIX different scores on different body parts.

                    Comment

                    • #50
                      This is going to be a dumb question for a first post, but what's a RARA?

                      Comment

                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Matador View Post
                        This is going to be a dumb question for a first post, but what's a RARA?
                        Radical Animal Rights Activist

                        You know, the ones who hate carriages and think that it's cruel to ride horses.

                        Comment

                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                          Personally, I think photo #2 is photoshopped. Exaggerated highlights to accentuate ribs, implying the horse is more thin than one would first guess.

                          And yes, OP is a pot stirring troll.
                          I mentioned that right off, the pictures looked edited for effect.
                          What else do you expect of animal rights extremist propaganda?
                          That was one more giveaway what the OP was up to.

                          Comment

                          • #53
                            My opinion? Crawl back into your cave before dawn or you'll turn to stone.

                            Comment

                            • #54
                              Aww, I hate to think it's Bayou Bengal ... I always liked her posts in the past. Yes, she is involved with natural Tennesee Walking Horses.

                              And I agree, if you want a cause, please do something about the Amish horses, which are often thin, made to stand in the heat and terrible weather with no water, and treated pretty terribly in some cases. Why does no one care about them? I am all for the Amish riding bicycles!

                              Comment

                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Ambitious Kate View Post
                                Yes.

                                There was something wrong about the photo. Nicely muscled butt with some really oddly accentuated highlights that looked wrong. I thought so too. Glad I'm not the only one.
                                I thought the same thing. The ribby part doesn't match the neck, rump, barrel, or the shoulder area. My thought was intentional bad camera angle or the picture was shopped.
                                "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

                                Comment

                                • #56
                                  Well, I see that Eva has started her spin over here, too. Eva and company have gotten all upset because several of us who participate in mainly special occasion livery have been talking about creating a VOLUNTARY rating system sort of like the rating systems used for hotels, restaurants and bed & breakfast inns.

                                  We are in the process of drawing up a SET OF "STANDARDS" that those who WANT to participate in the program would agree to try to adhere to to improve the image of carriage livery.

                                  This system would be for VOLUNTARY PARTICIPANTS ONLY. It would not be used to judge or penalize those companies who do NOT wish to participate.

                                  The rating system covers such things as- safety, condition of horse, harness and carriage as well as dress and behavior of drivers and footmen with the idea of trying always to present our BEST efforts when in public doing carriage livery jobs.

                                  The idea for creating such a system did grow in part out of seeing real-- unphotoshopped-- photos of horses working in carriage livery mainly in urban areas.

                                  The two horses whose photos appeared here were part of our discussion on a PRIVATE group page just like the one Eva operates. But they had previously appeared on several of the pages run by rara groups in two differnet cities. We had confirmed by independent sources that these were infact photos of REAL horses than had been working in commercial carriage tours within the last 6 to 8 months.

                                  Also on the page under discussion were photos taken from various sites that showed harness held together with baling twine or zip ties with their ends all sticking out or even duct tape. Other photos showed such things as a white carriage with a vinyl top so mildewed it was grey. Another showed a carriage with frayed duct tape on the shafts-- badly frayed duct tape. Again, all of these photos had been taken within the past 6-12 months.

                                  Someone with access to our page "leaked" parts of our WORKING documents over to the people on TUH and some of them like Eva blew a gasket and began calling us all kinds of names. Eva has been bragging onher page about her "moles" and spies.

                                  The working documents posted on our page had photos of different things up for discussion as to what would be considered meeting a standard and not meeting a standard. These photos were included to serve as examples to educateand serve as examples easily visualized by us to help us decide about what standards we wanted to VOLUNTARILY adopt.

                                  After posting some very confrontational posts and making accusations that were untrue, Eva made the demand that people could "belong" to The Urban Horse page or to the BEST page, but not both. And she banned one person from her page because he didn't leave voluntarily but wanted to stay on both pages--an activity she constantly rags on the raras about.

                                  Anyway, these photos as well as discussions about them have appeared on both pro-and anti-carriage livery pages on facebook. As most people by carriage livery has become a controversial subject. Some people have adopted an attitude that for the sake of solidarity no one should ever criticize the practices of ANY carriage company or driver ever-- no matter whether it is "correct" or "incorrect" behavior.

                                  For example, some people do not want anyone to point out that it is not a safe practice for drivers to stand many feet away from their horse-drawn carriage without a lead in hand or the horse tied to a substantial object.

                                  And for the record: Any time anyone on The Urban Horse asks an inconvenient question or doesn't agree 100% with Eva and her little core group, they are ridiculed, harassed and even cursed a blue streek by one particular person, whom we have been told is no longer on TUH either. Anyway-- I left The Urban Horse because I was tired of being cursed out every time I didn't "toe the party line."

                                  I am only sorry that these photos were posted by someone else other than me. I would have gladly done it myself, if I had thought it might get some people to think twice before putting horses who look like those horses to work in public. But as it is, I believe the OP is a young woman who contacted me after reading both rara pages and some pro-carriage pages. She is working on some kind of project or academic paper where she is trying to collect and compare reactions to those photos from avowed radical animal rights activists, pro-carriage activists, horse people who are not necessarily involved in commercial carriage livery and reactions of members of the general public who are not horse owners at all.

                                  I think she would find a more "pure" sampling of opinions from non-carraige livery horse owners if she took those photos to actual equine events like rodeos, horse shows and the race track and tried to get reactions and opinions there because they would be less likely to have been tanted by posts from "interested parties" like me, Eva, thedrafthorse and a few others.

                                  As for those who were so quick to "excuse" the two ribby horses in the photos, I have questions for you: If you saw photos of horses in similar condition participating in YOUR chosen horse activity would you think they fooked "fine" or "okay?" Would you think they needed to gain weight? Or would you think "Oh, those MUST have been photo-shopped by raras?" Be honest with yourselves.
                                  Last edited by bayou_bengal; Jul. 15, 2012, 01:20 AM.

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                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by LoveAllThingsEquine View Post
                                    I would like honest opinions about the horses pictured at this link. These picures were found on different sites on the Internet, but I think these pictures are of only two different horses.

                                    After looking, if you feel like commenting, please do. No questions, just comments. Whatever comes to mind.

                                    http://s1171.photobucket.com/albums/...lThingsEquine/
                                    Honest opinion you're an alter who took these photos here to try to garner sympathy to your cause. Yep both horses are a bit ribby certainly a far cry from being "abused" or endanger but then again you knew that. Trolling for empathy is normally a tactic used for RaRa's.
                                    Last edited by Lynnwood; Jul. 15, 2012, 04:36 PM.
                                    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                    Comment

                                    • #58
                                      Whoa, back up the bus. Wasn't Bayou Bengal the one with the skinny black Percheron that she drove into town to give carriage rides to the public???

                                      Comment

                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Sithly View Post
                                        Whoa, back up the bus. Wasn't Bayou Bengal the one with the skinny black Percheron that she drove into town to give carriage rides to the public???

                                        Comment

                                        • #60
                                          Why, yes, she was. She changed her name after the trainwreck with the dog. What ever happened to the poor dog, anyway?

                                          Regardless, I think the following post clearly indicates she was driving a horse in less than ideal condition. Wonder how she'd feel if someone posted her picture on the internet for "educational purposes"? No questions about the backstory allowed.

                                          He and his wife visited for about a half hour, and he gave me lots of tips on feeding and harnessing. It turns out that my vet's recommendation that I use corn oil to help fatten her is not such a good idea in the summer since she is a cold blooded horse- James suggested that I wait until cooler weather to add the corn oil, and that for now I should add soaked beet pulp to her diet to help fatten her. He also told me it would be hard and expensive to get her back in really good flesh-- especially to fill out the hollow along her spine since she is 20, but it could be done. He said most draft farms wouldn't bother. But I told him that I don't own but three Percherons, so I will feed what it takes to get them looking really good.
                                          http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268362

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