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Physical Reprimands and horses?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by carp View Post
    It's a tool. You can use it, misuse it, or abuse it. Whether you succeed in using it to impart a useful lesson to your horse depends on your skill as a teacher. Same thing goes for treats, nose chains, lunge whips, and any other tool.
    This!

    I think a smack can be appropriate with some horses for some behaviors. My rule is I do not get bit, kicked or run over so if needed I will give a correction. I would rather give one firm correction then lots of nagging ones, and I really don't think I can smack a horse hard enough to hurt them, it's more of a tapping into what the dominant horse would do and mimicking it.
    for more Joy then you can handle
    http://dangerbunny.blogspot.com/

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    • #22
      Originally posted by 5 View Post
      I will have to try it.
      Goodness know the written warnings aren't making a dent.
      Made me laugh, that is a great post!!

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      • #23
        "What do I think about smacking a horse?"

        I don't think twice about it, esp.since it can keep a rude horse from running over me and leaving me face down in the dirt.

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        • #24
          Do I have a problem with using a solid smack as a reprimand? No, not at all. That being said, it works better for some horses and some situations than others. Just like all other training we do with our horses, you have to understand the horse you are working with and the situation you are dealing with in order to react appropriately. My mare is usually tuned in well enough to tone of voice that a physical reprimand would be too much and could easily scare her, but her pasture buddy needs to know you mean business or she will continue to try getting in your space- she's just naturally pushier/more dominant and it takes a smack to get her attention every now and then.

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          • #25
            Watch horses at liberty in turnout...*really* watch...and let us know how they react and understand one another when one does something unacceptable.

            Some folks are too quick to smack or smack in anger or frustration. As stated...it's a tool. It's a form of communication they understand. It's not going to emotionally scar them, that's a human's idea when they compare it to spanking or beating a child. Or they compare it to training a dog.

            Heck, watch how hard horses play with one another.

            You do have to be able to read horses a bit...the "always sweet" approach works for some horses. But not all. There's never been any type/style of training that works on all horses all the time. It's silly to generalize.
            You jump in the saddle,
            Hold onto the bridle!
            Jump in the line!
            ...Belefonte

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            • #26
              Originally posted by HPFarmette View Post
              I only would smack with my hand for an IMMEDIATE reaction to an attempt at biting me. Because it's useless if you take the time to go in the tack room and get a bat! But I would use a small bat (crop) if I were leading a horse that I knew was rude about personal space, to swing it or tap him if he crowds me.....
              This
              We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

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              • #27
                A conversation with an upper level eventer brought about the comment that on course the rider needs a stick and to be prepared to use it when he feels the horse sucking back or lacking 'lock on'. He wants to place well, and it is
                dangerous to have a half committed horse. If I rode Advanced, I'd probably agree.

                Mostly I hate hitting a horse, smacking is pointless, and 'come to Jesus' is as unhorsemanlike as I can imagine and hate the expression
                Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post

                  Mostly I hate hitting a horse, smacking is pointless, and 'come to Jesus' is as unhorsemanlike as I can imagine and hate the expression

                  If smacking is pointless, clearly you're doing it wrong.


                  Back to the OP - I do not think twice to use whatever tools necessary to defend myself or my personal space, or to get an idea (request/demand) in a crystal clear way.

                  Example A: Lease Horse can be a bugger about putting ointment on his hocks. I get it, they are tender. If he lifts and puts his leg down, I leave him alone. The one time he lifted his leg and kinda swung it around as warning, he got a couple swift, HARD smacks, and a growl/yell. He's so laid-back I *rarely* have to physically remind him that yes, I mean XYZ. He scurried to the corner of his corral, I retrieved him, and continued on my business of playing Dr. He didn't move an inch, and got lots of praise. He has since not raised his leg.


                  It's like when I lead a horse, I always have the rope looped so I can reach them with the end of it if necessary. I've been run over by too many bad-mannered horses with incompetent owners to not be prepared to smack the sh!t outta them with the leadrope if they try to step on me.
                  runnjump86 Instagram

                  Horse Junkies United guest blogger

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by runNjump86 View Post
                    If smacking is pointless, clearly you're doing it wrong.


                    Smack: "To strike sharply and with a loud noise"

                    Foxtrot, are you sure you're not confusing smack with a light tap?
                    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                    Originally posted by DottieHQ
                    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                      Watch horses at liberty in turnout...*really* watch...and let us know how they react and understand one another when one does something unacceptable.

                      Some folks are too quick to smack or smack in anger or frustration. As stated...it's a tool. It's a form of communication they understand. It's not going to emotionally scar them, that's a human's idea when they compare it to spanking or beating a child. Or they compare it to training a dog.

                      Heck, watch how hard horses play with one another.

                      You do have to be able to read horses a bit...the "always sweet" approach works for some horses. But not all. There's never been any type/style of training that works on all horses all the time. It's silly to generalize.

                      YES. You weigh 150 lbs. Your horse weighs 1000 lbs. HE CAN HURT YOU. Badly.

                      That said, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with hitting a horse/having a CTJ/yelling and making them think they are going to die if they 1) bite, 2) kick, 3) try to run me over. Each of those situations can render me VERY seriously injured, so EVERY horse I ever touch learns that those behaviors are ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCEPTABLE. "Playing Nice" is not worth the possibility of being maimed by a horse who has no respect for me and my personal space.

                      Now fidgeting on the crossties, expressing discomfort or displeasure, etc, those things are minor and just get ignored. But ANY aggressive act gets the horse a good smacking.
                      Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

                      PONY'TUDE

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                      • #31
                        3 second rule, and yes i do, bc a herd leader will also bite or kick to get their point across. IF a stern voice is not working.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by 5 View Post
                          I will have to try it.
                          Goodness know the written warnings aren't making a dent.

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                          • #33
                            If the written warnings don't work, try pinning an ear or snakeing your neck.
                            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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                            • #34
                              Smacking works well when used as a quick, fair punishment for very bad behavior.

                              I have a pushy gelding. He used to fight me when I groomed his flank. Once he kicked in my general direction. He got a nice smack on the ass and I went right back to his flank. He kicked again and got another quick smack. That horse turned his neck around, put his eyes in front of my face, and I figure his look told me, "OK, you win, I got it." I went back to the same area. Never once did he raise his leg to me again. He knows I don't allow kicking. He usually knows I'm in charge. Now. And if I'm in charge, we're all happy.

                              Now my mare... It takes a lot for me to hit her. She's respectful already and would be very upset.

                              I don't like it, but I will deliver a smack when they are intentionally testing my dominance in a way that is unsafe.

                              Punching, kicking, or whipping? NEVER and I will destroy anybody who touches my animals that way.
                              Born under a rock and owned by beasts!

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                              • #35
                                I have NO problem administering a smack.

                                And I wish more people knew how to set boundaries with their horses.

                                My rowdy 6 y/o is laying up at a boarding barn that is 3 hours from my office, so I can't always get there during the week. I've noticed that since he's been there, his ground manners are REALLY deteriorating. He's gone from "pushy if you LET him be pushy" to, quite frankly, a flat-out little snot. This is b/c all the daily handlers think he's soooo cuuuuute and sooooo adorable and feed him treats and let him walk all over them. Whoever does turnout/bring-in is letting him DRAG them to and from the barn.

                                I can't be having that. I've got a crippled hip that sometimes halfway dislocates itself when walking, so I need to stop and sort of ease it back in. I need a horse who knows the meaning of whoa/stand and does NOT push or get ahead.

                                So now I have to be the Big Meanie who shows up every weekend with a stud chain and a crop and MAKES him back off when I open the stall door, and MAKES him wait if I say "whoa" and MAKES him do the 4 steps/whoa, 4 steps/whoa all the way to and from the pasture.

                                But if only 1 person is enforcing those rules and 9 people are not, the 1 person is fighting a losing battle.

                                Learn to set boundaries with your horse. You will both be much happier.
                                "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by goodhors View Post
                                  So I don't think a physical punishment as light as a slap is harsh training. Especially on the big body parts. You can't allow a horse to run the relationship, it just gets worse behaviour going. The person will get hurt for sure.
                                  Absolutely!

                                  I think some people think that if we are willing to slap a horse then that's all we do, stand around slapping the horse. All it takes is one well meaning smack with perfect timing and the horse gets it. They get it, they aren't stupid! If it takes more then it's back to some training in manners and it's cured with fair and consistent reminders.

                                  The only head shy horses I've ever known are the kind who are hit and pinched for stupid stuff by the handlers who get angry and react like idiots. I have a mare who would be slapped for stomping or shaking her head at a fly. I think that is cruel.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by caradino View Post
                                    YES. You weigh 150 lbs. Your horse weighs 1000 lbs. HE CAN HURT YOU. Badly.

                                    That said, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with hitting a horse/having a CTJ/yelling and making them think they are going to die if they 1) bite, 2) kick, 3) try to run me over. Each of those situations can render me VERY seriously injured, so EVERY horse I ever touch learns that those behaviors are ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCEPTABLE. "Playing Nice" is not worth the possibility of being maimed by a horse who has no respect for me and my personal space.
                                    Absolutely. When I first got my mare (she was a giveaway and a chestnut one at that!) the previous owner said she was fine on the the lead but maybe a little pushy. The PO said she hadn't "clicked" with the horse so really didn't do much except put her back in the pasture when she gave her a 'tude.

                                    When I got her home and after I let her settle in, I went to take her out. Put the lead on her and she ran right over the top of me. I was badly bruised and DH had to put her back in the pasture (she won that round). The next day I hobbled out to go get her armed with a lead rope that had a stud chain. Over the nose it went, took her out and she still tried to run me over only this time I was ready. A hard yank on the lead, a "knock it the "f" off at the top of my lungs and hard open hand smack on the shoulder simultaneously that was done in under 5 seconds worked like a charmed. Every time after that, she has moved off my shoulder and out of my space.

                                    So yea, if they are being dangerous, I have no problem a well placed whack. But it has to be done right there, right then and move on.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by caradino View Post
                                      YES. You weigh 150 lbs. Your horse weighs 1000 lbs. HE CAN HURT YOU. Badly.

                                      That said, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with hitting a horse/having a CTJ/yelling and making them think they are going to die if they 1) bite, 2) kick, 3) try to run me over. Each of those situations can render me VERY seriously injured, so EVERY horse I ever touch learns that those behaviors are ABSOLUTELY NOT ACCEPTABLE. "Playing Nice" is not worth the possibility of being maimed by a horse who has no respect for me and my personal space.

                                      Now fidgeting on the crossties, expressing discomfort or displeasure, etc, those things are minor and just get ignored. But ANY aggressive act gets the horse a good smacking.
                                      Yes. If they display behavior that could hurt me in a BAD way, then they meet the Huge Angry Bitch in me via CTJ. The one time my gelding cow-kicked at me back when he was a testing 2yr, he got a boot in the belly and a John Lyons-style ass whuppin'. He's never raised a leg since, to anyone. If a horse tries to kick me I hold nothing back and use whatever tools are within arms reach.

                                      I actually remember a JL article LOOONG ago about dealing with a kicker, and in it he expressed how dangerous it is and how it MUST be stopped, quickly and effectively, the first time. No nagging, no second tries, nothing. He used a big, plastic leaf rake on a horse because not only was it scary looking, but the sound it made bouncing off his hind end was scary X10. Horse kicked out, he went ape sh!t...yelling and smacking until the horse thought it was clearly going to die, then stopped and went back to doing whatever he had done. He also made a point of introducing the rake after the incident so horse wouldn't freak if he saw the Big Scary Rake later in life. I clearly remember the pictures in that article...that horse was scared, and his cowboy hat never moved. The next photo showed the horse standing with head up, eyes/nose huge as saucers, but he was just quietly grooming and when the horse relaxed, he rewarded with a pat.

                                      Now, will I do that to a horse that is just being an ass and moving around? Nope. The punishment suits the crime. My gelding is a total button pusher, and he paws when he's in the wash rack drying while I'm putting things away. I don't go John Lyons-style on him for that, but if I growl at him twice, the third time is a spank. That's usually when his attention span gets turned back on and he waits patiently.
                                      runnjump86 Instagram

                                      Horse Junkies United guest blogger

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                                        Absolutely!

                                        I think some people think that if we are willing to slap a horse then that's all we do, stand around slapping the horse. All it takes is one well meaning smack with perfect timing and the horse gets it. They get it, they aren't stupid! If it takes more then it's back to some training in manners and it's cured with fair and consistent reminders.

                                        The only head shy horses I've ever known are the kind who are hit and pinched for stupid stuff by the handlers who get angry and react like idiots. I have a mare who would be slapped for stomping or shaking her head at a fly. I think that is cruel.
                                        Sorry for the double post, but I gotta comment on this!

                                        The barn I boarded at back in high school was ran by a Nutso Woman. I didn't figure this out for awhile...oops. Lesson learned, but I digress.

                                        Her horses were Out. Of. Control. Her barn was setup so all she had to do was open stall gates (14' ones) and they would run out into the pasture, so they were handled MAYBE once a week, and were allowed to do whatever they felt like. Her stud was only haltered when he was taken to be bred (backyard breeder of the worst kind), and the two horses of her 8 that were rideable had AWFUL manners under saddle and on the ground. Her favorite was letting her gelding that I was riding/showing scratch his head on her back/shoulders with enough force to knock you down. NOPE.

                                        I was considered abusive at this barn because I didn't allow my horses to scratch their heads all over my body and I was prepared and willing to physically defend myself/correct my horses. The people who think "Oh poor horse!" when they get corrected need to be in the middle of a pasture full of rambunctious geldings and see what they do to one another!
                                        runnjump86 Instagram

                                        Horse Junkies United guest blogger

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                                        • #40
                                          Last week a horse in the arena kicked out at another horse passing by (kicking horse was being held, not ridden)

                                          The kicker is a veteran who has been at our barn for more than a decade, has been in training with barn's trainer & should know better. He has recently been purchased by someone who might be letting him get away with stuff he normally wouldn't.

                                          Trainer was giving a lesson when kick occurred. Trainer -flew- across the ring & got after kicker. It was so fast, I didn't even see her get over there. Backed him up, kicked him in the chest, yelled at him. Basically let him know behavior was unacceptable (she got there so fast there was no lag time at all)

                                          I realized that this is what another horse would do, the kick to the chest from a human really can't hurt that bad & it doesn't make them head shy, but it def. gets their attention. I was sure he thought Trainer was going to have roast horse for dinner. It was kind of funny watching b/c I never thought about how small Trainer was until I saw her take on giant horse.

                                          All of the horses in the barn are well mannered. There are no biters or kickers, all stand quietly & aren't spooky at all (and we have a lot Arabs )

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