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Parelli University

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  • For folks who might believe that Parelli/PU is "just a franchise" - here's some links to how REAL franchises are required to act under federal and state law.

    (hint - Parelli/PU is NOT a franchise and cannot be compared to something like Yum Brands or other corporations who have legally franchised their brand. )

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/franchise/faq1.shtm
    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...1.4.55&idno=16

    http://www.franchise411.com/fpi/UFOC-items.html
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Niennor View Post
      I think it's wording used on that disclosure that sets most people off. It specifically mentions discussing the program online, on blogs, FB, etc. What about with your non-horsey friends? Your family? Seems to be they're more interested about their image online than actual confidentiality. I, for example, work at an NHS clinic an administrative. I handle confidential information that I could get fired for revealing, it goes without saying. Yet I didn't have to sign a contract saying I could not have any blogs or FB pages where I discuss my job.



      I think the problem that I and most people have with PNH is that it is offered as the ONLY solution to work with any horse, in any situation. Also the idea that he invented something new gets on my nerves. Natural horsemanship is not something new, it has been used in Portugal and Spain for the last 500 years so I can assure you Pat didn't invent it. And while the old school horseman in my country are faithful to the old traditions and tools, they will not disdain other horseman for using different methods, provided they are good horsemen, of course.
      I beg to strongly disagree.
      PNH has not been "used in Spain and Portugal for 500 years"

      Do find out what PNH is, how they train on the ground, how they ride and you will see how absurd that sounds.
      I think you don't know the level of odd horse training and riding that goes on PNH.

      Too bad that they pulled the very offensive videos of LP bopping Barney around, or clunking the gray arabian and such others.
      Any one caught doing that to a horse in a traditional instructor program would have been questioned and probably dismissed from the program.
      You still can see the ones of LP teaching her kind of odd riding, do a search on the Dressage forum for the threads there.
      No, there is nothing at all in PNH even close to similar with any traditional horsemanship techniques or goals.

      One very insistent and long winded proponent of PNH spent months telling us how good PNH is. Then finally posted one picture of her riding.
      Granted, all of us have bad pictures, bad riding moments happen regularly to all, those where our horses don't look like we know what we are doing.

      BUT, if we really know what proper riding is, if we are trying to show that we have an educated eye for how a horse should move and how we should look on a horse, we put up a good picture of what we are trying to show.
      That this one PNH proponent was clueless, as is the PNH way of riding, no matter how much it insisted PNH was such a proper way to ride, that was obvious then.

      Riding right, so a horse is well balanced with the extra weight of a rider, that is the same in all kinds of riding that has any technical aspects to what we do with horses.
      That is basic for a horse's well being.
      In traditional instruction, beginners learn to have an educated eye for that and the riding skills to achieve that.

      Some times, being different is innovative and good.
      Then, there is a reason why the basics have been the same for centuries, because is what is best for the task at hand.
      Sorry, PNH is missing some very important basics.
      See the latest LP videos of her riding and teaching in lessons/clinics that were posted lately.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by 7HL View Post
        Lets use your McDonald's as an example. Since some here might compare Parelli's methods to fast food.

        If anyone can sell hamburgers, then why do people pay millions for a McDonald's Franchise. It's the opportunity to make money. There are tons of restrictions and requirements to be a franchise owner. There is also no guarantees either on how much money you will make. But there is a track record.

        People may not like it but Parelli Certified trainers make money. So if you like the program and have been using it for some time, some decide to do it for a living.
        Let's stick with horses, shall we?

        You noted that there was a difference between "ribbon chasers" and PU aspirants. I pointed out that there was not, and used a 'burger chain as a an example of that non-difference. There's no reason at all to follow that "rabbit trail" as it moves the discussion badly off center.

        PU is a, however, a franchise. So we do have to look at the world of franchising to make a comparison. Since there are no competing equine franchises that I'm aware of we'll have to go outside the world of horses, at least a little bit. A real franchise operation is very structured and not only charges a fee for the use of its name but also provides a large measure of support for the business, particularly in its early days. Since many franchise buyers use bank financing to get started the franchise must have a "track record" of providing good prospects for business success.

        What is the PU track record? If you went to a bank and wanted to borrow $135,000 for the PU curriculum what would you show them to demonstrate economic viability? What does PU provide, in terms of support, that will help our PU aspirant both convince the the banker that the investment is sound and provide the practical help to the aspirant to "make it on the ground?"

        I asked about PU earnings level and got no response. If I were to ask this question of McDonald's they'd say something like:

        "According to the McDonalds FDD Item 19, the average sales volume of traditional restaurants in the U.S. open at least one year was $2.4 million in 2010. The highest sales volume for a U.S. McDonalds in 2010 was $9.8 million (the "star" performer). The lowest performing restaurant clocked in at $387,000."

        Owner profit is about 10% on average. Of course just how much an individual owner makes is dependent upon how well they manage their asset. But, as you can see, somebody who want's a McDonald's franchise can take this to the bank and give the bank a reasonable assurance of financial success.

        So what does PU say about it's financial benefit to the aspirant?

        But, getting back to purely horses, there is no functional difference between a PU franchisee and an independent trainer/instructor who has a personal history of success both as a competitor and as a teacher. Indeed, Parelli himself has a very poor record as a competitor and his program is weak in developing teaching skill in his followers. I didn't see any units in the review I have read about how to teach people anything. Anyone with a lick of "horse sense" knows that ability to teach a horse is valuable; the ability to teach others how to teach a horse is critical. Indeed, the possession of a PU credential ensures nothing; the track record of an independent offers something.

        This is, really, an apples to apples comparison and the PU program comes up short.

        Again, if some body has a spare $135,000 they want to pass on to Pat and Linda then that's their business. But that doesn't mean the rest of the world can't make observations about its wisdom.

        G.
        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Neigh-Neigh View Post

          80K for a degree is pretty competitive to what else is out there.
          Yes, but most "degrees" will get you more than $20 an hour at a part time job. Their goal is to have 1,000 instructors, good luck with your market share as there are no territory guarantees. We have 3 instructors within 20 miles here, and I don't think any of them are making enough to live on.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post

            PU is a, however, a franchise.
            If it's a franchise it's certainly not conforming to the legal requirements of franchises.

            It looks like they want the best of both worlds - to skirt the legal and financial disclosure requirements of franchisors but impose bizarre onerous requirements on its franchisees - but comport itself more like one of those "work from home" business scams.

            In my mind, if a company wants to franchise they should do it legally. A company that ducks, dives, and dodges the law isn't a franchise - it's a scam.

            If the Parelli people want to franchise the brand - that's fine.

            Do it the same way other companies do - and that means conform to filing requirements, and make the same disclosures to prospective franchisees.

            The problem with legally franchising their brand is that I don't think they CAN conform to the disclosure requirements. It's a house of cards.
            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
            -Rudyard Kipling

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
              <SNIP>
              Too bad that they pulled the very offensive videos of LP bopping Barney around, or clunking the gray arabian and such others.<SNIP>
              One very insistent and long winded proponent of PNH spent months telling us how good PNH is. Then finally posted one picture of her riding.
              Granted, all of us have bad pictures, bad riding moments happen regularly to all, those where our horses don't look like we know what we are doing.
              <SNIP>.
              This video is still available
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueprRcH5B4

              and always good for a laugh

              7HL has never posted a picture or video of him riding or even with a horse AFAIK though he has been challenged to do so many times. Frankly I don't think he rides.
              I wasn't always a Smurf
              Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
              "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
              The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

              Comment


              • I just trademarked and copyrighted COTH Super University. Since it was my idea I get to be head kool aid stirrer but I will need underlings to spread my word to the masses. Any volunteers? We will meet at midnight on the next full moon by a cauldron in the woods to plan our takeover er I mean enlightenment of the world.
                McDowell Racing Stables

                Home Away From Home

                Comment


                • I'm in.

                  USDF's education programs are better value for money than PP's stuff, IMO.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 7HL View Post

                    Have better things to do. May run out and check on the horses

                    Have fun all you virtual horse people.
                    The PP are the VIRTUAL HORSE PEOPLE. See we real horse people don't go JUST to check on our horses. We RIDE them and love on them! PP'rs do not RIDE their horses. Look, don't touch, do the finger wave at them.


                    hahahahahahaha

                    You are the classical and typical PP person: *look* but do not touch the horse, and perceptual bossing around of the horse with finger waving. But don't touch the horsey.

                    Can't touch them! Isn't there a song of the same subject. Can't touch this!

                    Now go RIDE your horse. Oooops, you don't ride.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                      I beg to strongly disagree.
                      PNH has not been "used in Spain and Portugal for 500 years"

                      Do find out what PNH is, how they train on the ground, how they ride and you will see how absurd that sounds.
                      I think you don't know the level of odd horse training and riding that goes on PNH.
                      OH no, I didn't mean it that way. It's what I consider natural horsemanship that has been used in Spain and Portugal. From what I've seen, PNH just stole bits from what was actual natural horsemanship, twisted the concepts to their own purpose and incorporated it into their own brand.
                      Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                      Originally posted by DottieHQ
                      You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                      Comment


                      • I don't think 7hl is so much a PU proponent as he is a scammer, himself. And I don't buy that it isn't glaringly obvious to him why it is that people find him and his posts so full of cult like rhetoric. There is something perverse which makes him persevere in his sneering harrassment of non-belivers, which goes beyond a speshul taste for pepperoni-flavored kool-aid. He's making up his hard-on for these scammers who like to use horses to woo easy marks out of their money because its both fun to get people riled up and because he is so enamored of their talent for scamming that he wants to try it out for his own self. Either way, he's a liar and as much of a scammer as they are. 7hl isn't doing the Ps any favors - he's reinforcing the snake oiliness of what the Ps exactly are; exactly what the Ps are so afraid of - if PU followers discuss them online, its going to to more damage than good, in an arena the Ps have no control over - the general public. I have to think that's what it is all about that they bann instructors from talking about it all online.

                        Either that, or they think the instructors are going to reveal the training techniques and they will lose control over what they think are their own exclusive tricks and lose money. In other words, don't give away the secrets, make the gullible public come to them and pay for it.

                        Yes, 7hl makes the Ps look like misogynistic cult leaders who cultivate and encourage the kind of followers who are capable of buying into being told not to think critically. If that video mentioned above is any example of their methods and the type of blind loyalty required to follow them, it reinforces their usary policies. That video of a woman grinning like an idiot and clutching her hands together while her horse is mishandled in an epic fail of training is more than a good giggle. If that is what 7HL is sneering and shaming his way across the internet supporting, then he is either incapable of critical thinking himself or as big a scammer as the Ps are.
                        My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ambitious Kate View Post
                          I don't think 7hl is so much a PU proponent as he is a scammer, himself. And I don't buy that it isn't glaringly obvious to him why it is that people find him and his posts so full of cult like rhetoric. There is something perverse which makes him persevere in his sneering harrassment of non-belivers, which goes beyond a speshul taste for pepperoni-flavored kool-aid. He's making up his hard-on for these scammers who like to use horses to woo easy marks out of their money because its both fun to get people riled up and because he is so enamored of their talent for scamming that he wants to try it out for his own self. Either way, he's a liar and as much of a scammer as they are. 7hl isn't doing the Ps any favors - he's reinforcing the snake oiliness of what the Ps exactly are; exactly what the Ps are so afraid of - if PU followers discuss them online, its going to to more damage than good, in an arena the Ps have no control over - the general public. I have to think that's what it is all about that they bann instructors from talking about it all online.

                          Either that, or they think the instructors are going to reveal the training techniques and they will lose control over what they think are their own exclusive tricks and lose money. In other words, don't give away the secrets, make the gullible public come to them and pay for it.

                          Yes, 7hl makes the Ps look like misogynistic cult leaders who cultivate and encourage the kind of followers who are capable of buying into being told not to think critically. If that video mentioned above is any example of their methods and the type of blind loyalty required to follow them, it reinforces their usary policies. That video of a woman grinning like an idiot and clutching her hands together while her horse is mishandled in an epic fail of training is more than a good giggle. If that is what 7HL is sneering and shaming his way across the internet supporting, then he is either incapable of critical thinking himself or as big a scammer as the Ps are.
                          +1
                          Alis volat propriis.

                          Comment


                          • I don't see the Pepperoni sexual practices rule as an interest in members' intimacy. I see is as an anti-gay clause. When I read that, I figured that it gives them a reason to boot you out of the club if they find out you are gay. But that's just my take.
                            My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ambitious Kate View Post
                              I don't see the Pepperoni sexual practices rule as an interest in members' intimacy. I see is as an anti-gay clause. When I read that, I figured that it gives them a reason to boot you out of the club if they find out you are gay. But that's just my take.

                              That statement is the biggest crock of manure posted so far.

                              You obviously are clueless.
                              The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fillabeana View Post
                                Like.
                                At a big show, there is probably going to be printing on the ribbons making them hard to award in a different venue. I think the nice lady probably just didn't want more ribbons.
                                While it was a 3*** show, it was not a "big" show in the sense of a CDI or multiday show. The venue has multiple shows every year, and they DO re-use the ribbons if people don't take them. They have the stable name and the placing on them, but not the year or the show date.

                                Comment


                                • Nah. I doubt 7 is a scammer. Just retired and bored would be my guess.

                                  But his use of the term "ribbon chasers" is a dead giveaway that he's a Parelli devotee from way back when every Parelli event included Pat making fun of people who show and saying how awful it was. And Linda used to tell her horror stories about what happens in demon dressage ... before they figured there might be more money in that, too.

                                  Neigh-Neigh, comparing certification from PU to a college education is ludicrous. At the very least, a 4-year college education will likely open doors for you and get you intojob interviews you wouldn't get without the degree. A PU certification isn't going to do that and could actually work against you because of the number of people who have become annoyed with Parelli devotees.
                                  __________________________
                                  "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                  the best day in ten years,
                                  you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                                    Well then, one must ask - why do you continue to post on Parelli threads?

                                    Never mind - that was a rhetorical question.
                                    In the course of reading this forum, I've wondered the same. It's something to do and get everyone sided up, keep some drama goin' on. 7 enjoys this and watching others get het up. Then the next Pep one will come along and it will be the same ol', over and over again. All yer have t' do is interchange one Pep posting from the next.

                                    Just you wait, in 3...2...1..., there'll be some some sort of posting from 7 pushing it all back my or someone else's way, saying something vaguely inflammatory and then a spate of replies from everyone else and he'll do it again. It's a good game and time-consuming for him. I mean, good honk, this post has gone on how many pages?? I keep reading because, well, I don't know why, just to keep up, I guess. Heh...

                                    ETA: And all the while, Pep is getting more free advertising. I hope this is okay with the Peps, talking on forums and all... Heh...
                                    Last edited by goneriding24; Jul. 10, 2012, 10:41 AM. Reason: .
                                    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by airhorse View Post
                                      Yes, but most "degrees" will get you more than $20 an hour at a part time job. Their goal is to have 1,000 instructors, good luck with your market share as there are no territory guarantees. We have 3 instructors within 20 miles here, and I don't think any of them are making enough to live on.
                                      Around here, there used to be some Pep people but they have sure piped down. I don't know if they are still in business or have morphed into something else. Even John Lyons has taken a hit. There is a little CA going on. Basically, the pendulum has swung back to traditional horsemanship, as far as I can see. Yay!

                                      I did the announcing at a show a couple of weekends ago, and, shocker, everyone had regular show tack and clothes. In the ring, during warm-ups, everyone was riding normally. The instructors were out in force with their riders and things seemed pretty normal. (I just noticed something about that which I wrote, people were riding!! Not doing oodles of groundwork! They were actually forking a horse!!)

                                      ETA: By normal show tack, I mean a bosal, ring snaffle or curb bit of some sort. No weird cradle bridles or whatever they are called. I saw real bridled horse. Or strange saddles. I saw only saddles from the usual show saddle makers.
                                      Last edited by goneriding24; Jul. 10, 2012, 10:59 AM. Reason: .
                                      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                                        This video is still available
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueprRcH5B4

                                        and always good for a laugh
                                        PP is a boob. This video further shows me why beyond all the previos junk. Also all the horses that I fixed because of the PP bull that was done to them and now the owners wonder why the horse is uncontrolable. If i hear "you cant do that because he is a left brain introvert" again I swear I will go parelli (a spin on going postal).

                                        Last week I was at an event and a woman whose trailer was all lettered up with pp logos came walking in the barn with her horse and one of those fancy lunge sticks. My SO who is not horse asked me wtf she was doing as she made him afraid of the stall by flinging the whip in his face and then blamed the horse while she lunged him in a small circle around the door blocking the whole aisle and flipping out every horse around. Finally she quit after someone yelled at her for it and told her to shove the NH. It was met with clapping. Freaking boob and had no freaking clue.
                                        I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by FLeventer View Post
                                          PP is a boob. This video further shows me why beyond all the previos junk. Also all the horses that I fixed because of the PP bull that was done to them and now the owners wonder why the horse is uncontrolable. If i hear "you cant do that because he is a left brain introvert" again I swear I will go parelli (a spin on going postal).

                                          Last week I was at an event and a woman whose trailer was all lettered up with pp logos came walking in the barn with her horse and one of those fancy lunge sticks. My SO who is not horse asked me wtf she was doing as she made him afraid of the stall by flinging the whip in his face and then blamed the horse while she lunged him in a small circle around the door blocking the whole aisle and flipping out every horse around. Finally she quit after someone yelled at her for it and told her to shove the NH. It was met with clapping. Freaking boob and had no freaking clue.
                                          He is a boob. A boob with a moostash, Linda too. Both of them are "boob-stashes".

                                          I hear ya on the having to fix the pp horses after they have been messed up. Good for you doing so. THAT is a hard task. However, you can not fix their legs and bodies after they have been finger waved 10,000,000 times on the same "task". Sad. I will never buy a pp horse for fear of brain damage on the horse, and but mostly for unsoundness. I have found those horses defeated in their attitudes. So, sad. Also, they have no riding training because all they do is finger wave and never have a rider in the saddle. If they do, then it is as though they are in a western pleasure peanut rolling class.

                                          [edit]

                                          Comment

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