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President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

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  • The Pentagon estimates Iraqi casualties between 250,000 - 500,000 in the first week alone.

    The Iraqi army has fewer then 375,000 total members, and only a moron would think they are all going to be sitting in Baghdad during the first week.

    Like most underdeveloped countries, 50% of the population of Iraq is under the age of 18.

    You do the math. We are on the brink of creating a generation of underage martyrs. This does not make me 'proud to be an American'.

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kryswyn:

      That being said, I have never hated anyone as much as I do George Dubya Bush. How dare he squander the power he has - the power that has taken this nation 227 years to reach, that his father help build, just for more oil? Frankly, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between Saddam's "It is the will of Allah" and Mr. Bush's "This is my God-given fate". (PLEASE note that I am NOT comparing the two individuals in total - just that they each feel a Deity is on their side and responsible for their choice of actions)

      For all those who think "we've gotta get'em before they get us" I will simply say that is a terribly slippery slope. Why then shouldn't North Korea use a WMD against us, as they've already threatened to? After all they view the USA as a threat, although we've done nothing directly to them. If you think this war is really about bringing 'democracy' to the people of Iraq, I suggest you look behind the rhetoric. Look closely at Kosovo and Afganistan. Yes we changed leaders, but the lives of the inhabitants are in many cases worse than before the UN & the US stepped in.

      Will the war be a quick one? Yes, because we can bomb the snot out of them as we did in 1991. However, the fact that America chose to flex its muscles without the global support of its peers will cause more and more hatred of America. Terrorism will become away of life here as it is in Israel. We can wipe out a regime, but only by spawning more hatred. This will be the Bush legacy, not the 'seed of peace' in the Middle East he speaks of. If you look at history, liberating a people has not necessarily endeared them to the liberators.

      To keep this horse related, IMO this war will be Phoney Tony Blairs downfall. He'll be out of office by 2004. Perhaps then the Foxhunting bill in England will finally be killed.

      ~Kryswyn~
      "Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Two points. 1. North Korea is a totally different situation. They already HAVE nuclear capabilities. I don't know the answer to the problem there but trust that there are people in the government with the knowledge and expertise to make the right decision there. Iraq is trying to develop nuclear weapons. Would you prefer we wait until they finish and then fight them? We already know they have chemical and biological weapons. There is substantial evidence (I know some will jump all over this one but these are the people who will not be convinced until one is dropped on their heads) that they are aiding terrorists. Terrorists do not develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. States do. Terrorists, on the other hand, have no problem using them. 2. Do you really believe if we don't follow through on this action that middle eastern countries will LIKE us? We're not doing this to make friends with the Iraqis. If (and I believe they will be) they are happy when this is over, great. I don't really care if they're endeared to us or not. Look at our history with the French. They'd all be speaking German now if it wasn't for the US and now they're more worried about protecting their contracts than freeing another nation.


      "The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." -Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
        Eomer, I don't understand your point. No one is washing their hands of the fate of the Iraqi people. The hope is to get Saddam gone and to let Iraq develop into a thriving and prosperous society with support. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
        Exactly what kind of support? The "do what we say or we'll stop paying for your bodyguards and you'll be dead in 30 minutes" kind we give the new Afghanistan government? Maybe we should have finished clearing up that mess first....

        Just wait till the Kurds seize the oil producing areas in the North, declare them Kurdish homeland and tell us to F off. Even if they all vote for it I don't think we'll reply "Oh, OK then! Hope it helps you towards a thriving and prosperous economy!" and go home.

        Comment


        • Here is an interesting assessment of the background of UN Resolution 1441 by Joshua Micah Marshall in his Talking Points Memo:

          Marshall on 1441
          "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

          Comment


          • You really are joking, nhwr?

            "No one who supports the idea of removing Saddam by war is happy that innocent people will be killed. I think this is Saddam's choice though, isn't it?"

            That is the best parapharse of Pontius Pilot I've ever read. We have choices, we don't need to bomb these people to dust. Yes the French have veto power, that's the way the UN is set up, the UN whose resloutions we are ... ?supporting?

            I believe in a matix of life, ALL life is important, intrinsically tied toghther. We cannot kill innocent people without ramifications, we can't.

            We have no mandate for this action, no leagal basis. OUR MIGHT IS RIGHT, it shoud be Our might for right. We are only fueling the fires that burns in the heart of terroists in this misadventure. When it's over, in the least, we will be at greater risk of terroist attack than we are now. That's IF it doesn't escalate in some way we cannot forsee. It IS a war of oil intrests, Sadam is a pawn. It's Euro oil against American oil, the outcome of which will not be settled easily. HUGE money is at stake, this could become Armagedon ... very very fast.

            I plan to live forever ...
            ... so far so good.
            \"The fool on the hill\"

            Comment


            • And given that North Korea is a nuclear power and their leader is NUTZ, what do you think will happen if he sees what a bully like Saddam can do as he pleases? He will act as he pleases too because Saddam was allowed act with relative impunity.

              I think this is a big a part of why we are going to war in Iraq. It is precisely because North Korea is dangerous that we need to act in Iraq.

              And no Eomer, I am not joking. So you are saying that because we fear terrorism we should act? We have a mandate , 1441. Although we are members of the UN, we are not bound to let the UN dictate our foreign policy. We have acted militarily without their approval before (in Kosovo). This isn't about Islam, is it? That is about thug who continues to keep his own people in abject poverty rather than keep his word and threaten his neighrbors and us (if he can).

              [This message was edited by nhwr on Mar. 18, 2003 at 05:32 PM.]
              See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelladonnaLily:
                There is substantial evidence (I know some will jump all over this one but these are the people who will not be convinced until one is dropped on their heads) that they are aiding terrorists. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                Exactly WHICH terrorists? There are a lot of terrorists in the world. Are they aiding Al-Queda? The Mc Veigh brothers? The IRA? DO you know or care?

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
                  And given that North Korea is a nuclear power and their leader is NUTZ, what do you think will happen if he sees what a bully like Saddam can do as he pleases? He will act as he pleases too because Saddam was allowed act with relative impunity.

                  I think this is a big a part of why we are going to war in Iraq. It is precisely because North Korea is dangerous that we need to act in Iraq.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                  Yeap, we're going to kill all those civilians as a warning to a desperate dictator on the other side of the world who cares so much about his own subjects that he's been letting them starve to death for years.

                  So we'll be safer and can sleep better at night.

                  Well maybe you're comfortable with that but I am NOT.

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
                    They have too much at risk (in terms of their ego and economy)

                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    I'd say that applies to the US just as much as to France!

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
                      And given that North Korea is a nuclear power and their leader is NUTZ, what do you think will happen if he sees what a bully like Saddam can do as he pleases? He will act as he pleases too because Saddam was allowed act with relative impunity.

                      I think this is a big a part of why we are going to war in Iraq. It is precisely because North Korea is dangerous that we need to act in Iraq.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                      Or, maybe, because Kim is an alcoholic lunatic with complete devotion to the communist manifesto and a demonstrated lack of caring for his own people, maybe he will look at this and say to his crazed little mind, "hmmm, they're attacking Iraq because they think it may have WMD, even though Saddam hasn't made a threat outside his own borders in 12 years. I know I'm next on the invasion list (that whole "Axis of Evil" thing and all) and they know I have WMD. Maybe I should just put a stop to any thoughts of the US invading me by shooting a nice nuke in their direction. What have I got to lose since they're going to bomb the #%*# out of us next anyway?"

                      Just a thought.
                      "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                      Comment


                      • To the original intent of the thread

                        Yes, I hope for as few casualties as possible - none, if possible.

                        I understand that the military is performing their job - one that few of us can fathom. All best to them and their loved ones. May they all be safe and return home to the loving embrace of their friends and families.

                        Comment


                        • Hey maggymay, I think I have made it plain that I don't like it much. It is the best choice out of a bunch of really lousy ones.

                          And Janeway, I think the risk to our ego are pretty small. And to our economy, well some risk, but we'd survive without Iraqi oil. The French economy wouldn't and that, not pacifism, is why they are digging their heals in..

                          So I ask you all what should we do instead? More inspections? Disarm by destroying 2 missiles a day?

                          And Portia, that might be a real threat if he had a missle that could get to us. He doesn't (yet).
                          See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                          Comment


                          • Oye - I kept telling myself to NOT read this.

                            First, cheers to canterlope, Flashy Grey and dcm, to name a few.

                            One of the reasons why Colin Powell was unable to educate the selfish idiots on the UN Counsel is because he CANNOT devulge all that our intelligence tells us. If he had done so, the perhaps well-meaning UN Inspectors would STILL have botched things and Saddam would have had more than enough time to move his WMD, etc. and THEN, where would we be. At least now, we still know where the f***kers are and can hopefully go in there and take care that they are never used on ANY person or animal, be it his own people or any other world inhabitant.

                            Saddam has been lying and laughing for over a decade and he continues to do so. It the threat imminent? I don't know the answer to that. Do I feel the thread exists? Most assuredly, yes. Do I feel it exists elsewhere as well? Yes. We, as citizens do NOT know everything, even with CNN telling us. The decisions made by those in the know are made with far more intel than we could ever dream about or even want to know, imo. I'm glad I don't have to make the decisions that our President has had to do, especially with what he's had to deal with from day one.

                            I only wish our military had been allowed to finish their job during Desert Storm.

                            God bless and keep our soldiers safe. I pray for the families and other loved ones behind. May the Iraqi army heed President Bush's advice so that no more of them need be killed than possible. May the civilians not be forced by Saddam and his minions to be in or near military targets. May Saddam be found and taken by whatever means. (Unfortunately, that would mean Saddam putting anyone between him and harm's way. ) May the American people continue to be able to voice their government-given right to dissent. May those same citizens count their blessings to be an American and stand by their country in it's time of need. May our intelligence continue to improve so that terrorists can be stopped before they commit atrocities. Hmmmm. I guess that's enough for now.

                            "I can justify anything!"
                            \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                            Comment


                            • What happened to the good ole days of espionage, taking out a despot either directly or through the exchange of cash?

                              I think we'd stand a greater chance of peace with North Korea by giving Kim a free pass to Graceland than by launching a quasi-pre-emptive strike thousands of miles away against a country with whom he shares nothing in common.

                              Comment


                              • Thank you Duffy. Well put.

                                I agree with the actions being taken. I pray for our troops, our country and our President. And yes... for those often called the "enemy" and all those who will lose their lives during this conflict.

                                God Bless America.
                                [i]\"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be wo

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumphigh83:
                                  Oh sweet holy mother of God.... Not ANOTHER leftist liberal tree hugging luv fest of the singing of koombayah and president bashing!!!!!! When you all are wearing towels on your heads and reciting the Koran maybe THEN you will appreciate what MORAL and decent leaders both Bush and Blair are .. They have the intestinnal fortitude to stand up to EVIL and and it to be REMOVED from this earth..And ANOTHER thing...the USA is only ENFORCING the UNs original ruling ...albiet TWELVE YEARS later! So NO we are NOT alone in the world we are STANDING up for the world and what is right.

                                  Betsy
                                  http://www.threewindsfarmny.com

                                  Lead, follow, or get out of the way...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  How mature of you to resort to name-calling on an online forum. Since when has it come down to the US attacking Iraq or ELSE? It's not like our freedom is at steak, as some make it out to seem. Also, the "towels on their heads" and the Quran are mostly by choice. Those are Muslim nations. In case you haven't noticed, Muslims in America do the same thing.

                                  Laura & Casey
                                  Laura & Casey

                                  http://photobucket.com/albums/v97/bluedinosaur/

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kryswyn:
                                    As someone who has two nephews in harm's way, I certainly support the troops and all the civilian support personnel. I pray that all their loved ones, and mine, will come home alive. Since realistically that is impossible, I pray that those who make the ultimate sacrifice do so with honor, not at the hands of friendly fire, or by mistake or by malfunctioning equipment.


                                    That being said, I have never hated anyone as much as I do George Dubya Bush. How dare he squander the power he has - the power that has taken this nation 227 years to reach, that his father help build, just for more oil? Frankly, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between Saddam's "It is the will of Allah" and Mr. Bush's "This is my God-given fate". (PLEASE note that I am NOT comparing the two individuals in total - just that they each feel a Deity is on their side and responsible for their choice of actions)

                                    For all those who think "we've gotta get'em before they get us" I will simply say that is a terribly slippery slope. Why then shouldn't North Korea use a WMD against us, as they've already threatened to? After all they view the USA as a threat, although we've done nothing directly to them. If you think this war is really about bringing 'democracy' to the people of Iraq, I suggest you look behind the rhetoric. Look closely at Kosovo and Afganistan. Yes we changed leaders, but the lives of the inhabitants are in many cases worse than before the UN & the US stepped in.

                                    Will the war be a quick one? Yes, because we can bomb the snot out of them as we did in 1991. However, the fact that America chose to flex its muscles without the global support of its peers will cause more and more hatred of America. Terrorism will become away of life here as it is in Israel. We can wipe out a regime, but only by spawning more hatred. This will be the Bush legacy, not the 'seed of peace' in the Middle East he speaks of. If you look at history, liberating a people has not necessarily endeared them to the liberators.

                                    To keep this horse related, IMO this war will be Phoney Tony Blairs downfall. He'll be out of office by 2004. Perhaps then the Foxhunting bill in England will finally be killed.

                                    ~Kryswyn~
                                    "Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It has nothing to do about oil. I don't know how that little piece of propaganda got started. It has nothing to do with oil. You are not thinking straight. Oil is not even a consideration. I'm completely at a loss to understand why you would think that!!!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • Im so sad.

                                      I didnt vote for Bush..knowing in my heart his election would only continue what his campaign promised--a total division of the American people.

                                      Must say he has succeeded far beyond my biggest nightmares.

                                      Small comfort that I can state honestly I had NO say in the policies now 'representing' some of the American people.

                                      This is a sad day.

                                      A sad day for the dream that was America.

                                      A sad day for the world.

                                      And I have a terrible dread that this day is going to stand as a watershed mark for the world.

                                      Historians will point to this time, these decisions, and say: 'here is where it all began.'


                                      great. just great.

                                      no one will be happier than I, if several months from now, some of you can say..

                                      --ha ha 'told you so' all those bombs, all those lives, all that chaos--it was for the best....See how great everything is now?--
                                      one oak, lots of canyons

                                      http://horsesportnews.wordpress.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • It's easy to be FOR war when the warheads are pointed in another direction. It's easy to tie flags to your antena when you don't have to look eye to eye with a man as you take his life.

                                        I wonder how many people would keep those flags up if they knew they were the first ones going to die? What if it was their children, mother, brother, son? How many of you could put a bayonet to someones throat and take their life. I hope not many, I really do. WAR is ugly in ways you cannot imagine. Death is permanent, the lives lost are lost forever. And we are ALL less for it.

                                        We are too quick to war, when we don't suffer the consequences.

                                        I plan to live forever ...
                                        ... so far so good.
                                        \"The fool on the hill\"

                                        Comment


                                        • Well, I don't at all agree with the Bush administration. Actually I think their thinking is majorly flawed and will bring pain and suffering to many, many people.
                                          However, the troops that he's sent to risk their lives have no choice in the matter. Whatever my personal views I support them and hope for the safe return of everyone sent to the middle east. I pray no innocent children will die or suffer because of these actions. Is that realistic, H*** NO! people will die and suffer. Families will greive the loss of their sons and daughters. That is what war does. Their are no winners.
                                          In the end good old George will have to face his God he claims to believe in so strongly.
                                          www.stallionstation.com/phoenixhill

                                          Comment

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