President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

[Czar]

Anne...that was priceless!!!

[Glimmerglass]

IMHO Andy Roony, was and is an idiot. People seem to love his yuck-yuck folksy charm but his remarks are hollow and his glib observations are out of touch with this war. Just another CBS liberal whom people sadly look to for wisdom just because he was from the era of Ike.

Andy "This [war] is especially bad" Roony I only wish will be haunted by foolish comments like this. But alas like UPI's Helen Thomas and her decline they will be untouched.

[Anne FS]

Eomer, I'm so pleased that brought you out into the fray again. You've been missed. Thank you, and you, too, Czar. Again, I didn't write it, I just posted it.

[Flashy Gray]

Nice rant from that cranky old windbag Andy Rooney. I find his so-called "commentaries" against this country even more shameful because he was a WWII vet.

However, it is his right to say whatever he likes! What a great country!

Here's the perspective on America that I prefer to take my lead from:

To America's Soldiers
An open letter.

BY BARBARA J. MAKUCH
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

I want to thank you for my existence. I want to thank you for your sacrifices, and for your courage, because without your heroism, this world would indeed be a different place. Were it not for the brave soldiers who liberated my father from Dachau, and my mother and her family from the Nazi slaveholders, I would not be here today. Nor would millions of others, all of whom remain indebted to you.

My mother and her family lived under the boot of the Soviets, then became slave laborers for the Nazis. Beaten, starved and terrorized, they could only hope for freedom. My father died a young man. Four years of terror and torture in Dachau left its mark on him. My uncle died at the hands of the Soviets, a bullet in his chest because he refused to remove a cross from the wall. My grandfather died in the U.S.S.R., never having been allowed to leave. He never saw his wife, children or grandchildren again.

When American and Allied forces bombed Nazi Germany, the slaves, prisoners of war and concentration-camp inmates cheered. They were forced to work the fields and in the factories even as the bombers flew overhead. Yet they cheered. They knew that their liberation was at hand. Even as they knew they might not live to see their freedom, they cheered. The miserable existence that they endured under the boot of the Nazis and the Soviets would not break their spirit or resolve, or their love of the soldiers who were losing their lives to liberate them. They prayed for their liberators, never faltering in the belief that they would succeed.

I asked my mother what she thought of war. "It is a terrible thing, but if it means freedom to those who have none, if it means safety for the world, then there is no question what has to be done," She said. "Those who have not suffered under the terror of oppression, those whose lives have been privileged and free, will never understand the sacrifices of those who died for liberty and freedom. It is easy to criticize our leaders from the safety, warmth and comfort of their homes and mansions. While they eat the bread of America, and benefit from the democracy and freedom of speech afforded us by this great nation, they show the ultimate disrespect toward our President and our troops."

An elderly and wise woman, my mother is forever grateful for her life. She is ill, her body ravaged by the hell she went through as a young woman, yet she still has the fight in her that kept her a survivor. The values she instilled in me gave me the courage to serve my country, giving back a small part of what had been given to me.



I remember, as a child, the packages of aid that came to our refugee camp in Germany. Huge tins of processed cheese, warm blankets, dried milk and sometimes chocolate. When the soldiers came, they would give us a stick of gum, a huge smile and a wink. I remember their uniforms; they were handsome and oh so dashing! We were a poor bunch of little kids, but we giggled shyly and tried to communicate. They patted our heads or picked us up to hug us. It wasn't occupation, it wasn't arrogance, it wasn't domination; it was kindness, it was dedication to their cause of freedom, and it was their love of humanity. And it left a lasting impression on me.
As I look upon the faces of our military today, these courageous men and women, brave, compassionate yet fierce in their cause to liberate the Iraqi people, I pray for them all. American, British, Australian, Polish and the scores of others who are facing yet another tyrant. My heart swells with pride and love for those who have given up so much to make this world a better place.

There is no country in the world that can say Americans, when they came to liberate a land, forced our language, culture or religions on anyone. Those of us who chose to embrace this wonderful land do so wholeheartedly, without coercion or force. We do it because we are true patriots. We know what sacrifices were made for our freedom.

May God protect and keep you in his care so that you return to your loved ones. May your families have the support and love of this country we call land of the brave and the home of the free, and may the people of the world never forget the ultimate sacrifice of our troops.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by special delivery:
nothing would have been accomplished. with use of force off the table, it was even weaker than the UN resolutions SH flouted for 12 yrs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That might be a valid point if the use of force would have been off the table. As it happens, it was not.

Now I can certainly agree that there were multiple interpretations about what 1441 truly meant to us versus the majority of the European community, but we probably fed into the European interpretation with on the record comments such as this one by America's UN Representative John Negroponte:

"There's no 'automaticity' and this is a two-stage process, and in that regard we have met the principal concerns that have been expressed for the resolution. Whatever violation there is, or is judged to exist, will be dealt with in the council, and the council will have an opportunity to consider the matter before any other action is taken."

"Speak yer mind. But ride a fast horse"

[Eomer]

All I can say to Mr. Rooneys detractors is he put up when the chips were down. I wish every Flag Waver had to go over and get in the $#!+ because then there would be a lot fewer Flags, that I love, being displayed tattered and torn from car antenas. Which is an affront to that GREAT BANNERS dignity, any Cub Scout knows Flags in that condition are to be taken down with respect and buried. Apparently by being a "Pro-War Patriot" you gain some un-precedented right to desecrate OUR Flag.


Anyway, If Mr. President deserves respect, OUR VETERNS sure as he!! do! ALL OF THEM!

And so does OUR Flag.


"The fool on the hill"

[This message was edited by Eomer on Apr. 09, 2003 at 01:02 PM.]

[El Grande Stimpendo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That might be a valid point if the use of force would have been off the table. As it happens, it was not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sure it was. France made it known they would veto (as well as otherwide obstruct) any attempt to use force.

[DMK]

That veto was not regarding 1441, that was relating to a second resolution. France's point was that 1441 was not fully carried out. Their response may have been disingenuous, but they were not incorrect about the status of 1441.

"Speak yer mind. But ride a fast horse"

[El Grande Stimpendo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>France's point was that 1441 was not fully carried out <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

then clearly their interpretation was that use of force wasnt on the table to begin with in 1441. either way use of force was off the table and the leverage was weaker than what SH had been flouting for 12 years.

[Pixie Dust]

How about those reporters / television crews who are also risking their lives to bring us these pictures of what's going on over there!! Good show!

[hobson]

Why is it we are urged to "support our troops," but won't listen to a troop who questions the war? A veteran who opposes the war is "shameful" and "an idiot."

I really don't want any american soldiers to have to die for a war I believe has nothing to do with some PR ideas of "freedom," "liberation," and the never-clearly-defined "American way of life." (What IS that, anyway?) If you are pro-war, I see that as being basically OK with the idea that people on both sides will die so that you can enjoy an illusion of safety. You are asking young people, many of whom have no other job options, to die. To say that you regret or feel bad about that strikes me, honestly, as hollow. If nobody wanted the death of soldiers, then there would not be a war right now.

No terrorism, real, potential, or imaginary-potential, can take away with what we consider to be "freedom," which is guaranteed by the constitution. Terrorism can take lives, yes, but any erosion of freedom is entirely OUR responsibility.

To believe, by the way, that every US soldier in Iraq right now is demoralized and shocked that there are Actual War Protestors is simplistic. The last BBC report I heard from an "embedded" reporter with a US battalion featured a number of soldiers saying that no, they weren't really too concerned about protests, didn't spend any time thinking about world politics and mainly just wanted a good hamburger and to see their girlfriends or boyfriends.

The brother of one of my best friends is in the special forces of some military branch, and was one of the first of the americans into Baghdad. His report to his family (conservative, very well-connected Virginians) includes the "shameful" opinion that the defense department is seriously under-reporting the number of US casualties and the "idiot" conclusion that war at this point was not necessary. He thinks it's shameful that he was sent to risk his life for what he believes are the frivolous personal whims of the president's staff, and he's pissed off. He is a republican voter. Does everyone support this troop, or does he not count?

[Jumphigh83]

....I am NOT worthy....I am NOT worthy....... Just floating along at the shallow end of the gene pool enjoying the veiw of the backsides of all those more enlightened and worthy than myself (hence they float ABOVE me).......mea culpa mea culpa mea MAXIMA culpa.....The only thing more entertaining than than watching the liberals eat crow about the liberation of Iraq is watching them take glee in what they think is catching someone with their "pants down" on the right....hahahahahahahahahaahsnortchokegasp....phe w

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com

Lead, follow, or get out of the way...

[Eomer]

Man, Jump, you sure told "THEM". I'm just glad I'm not a (n American) liberal (they should all have their tounges cut out, that'll teach em what this Countrys about and what we're fighting for, like free speach). I'm a CONSTITUTIONALIST

"The fool on the hill"

[hobson]

Jumphigh has spoken, and the pants are off. OK, let's just nuke everyone who is not part of the Willing Few. Darnit, we'll just do business with Bulgaria and to heck with the rest of those commie wackos!

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by special delivery:
then clearly their interpretation was that use of force wasnt on the table to begin with in 1441. either way use of force was off the table and the leverage was weaker than what SH had been flouting for 12 years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess we may never know what was truly in Chirac's mind, but the following interview with Guillame Parmentier indicates otherwise. Parmentier is the director of the French Center on the U.S. at the French Institute for International Relations in Paris. He formerly was head of external relations at NATO and prepared a French Ministry of Defense study on the future of the Atlantic alliance.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As the moment of truth looms in January and as the buildup in the Gulf intensifies, did you expect Chirac to cave ultimately? I think it's certainly true that was a general perception, is it not?

No. That was the perception in the English-speaking press. But I don't think there was any chance of his giving in. The reality was that if the inspectors had come in with a report saying that the inspections were not working satisfactorily, France would have gone to war. There's no question about that. That is the correct interpretation of Resolution 1441, and France would have implemented Resolution 1441. I have no doubt about that.

But given the fact that the inspectors not only think that the inspections can work but have given themselves and have given the Security Council a program of inspections which they say will bring Iraqi disarmament, [we] believe that this is a better method than going to war early.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Additionally, before the 1441 "2 part" compromise, Powell did specifically warn his French counterpart (with which he had an excellent relationship at that time) not to sign on to 1441 unless the French were prepared to act.

Who knows how things would have ultimately panned out, but as I asked, what would be the downside of working through 1441?

"Speak yer mind. But ride a fast horse"

[Heidi]

No, no, no

Even extremists who'd like to silence the voices of others, who's view of the world is informed by self-interested jingoism and bitterness are worthy, dagnabit! Unless you happen to be on the American poo-list, as drafted by Wolfie. The ironies are waayyy too rich here.

[Snowbird]

Well as to the spaghetti in Italy we may have been there at different times and in different places, I can only quote what was told by a native Italian stallion. I did manage to find some relatives that worked for the Borgias. There was a Luigi and Giovanni Karcher that were imported by them to compete with Raphael was was employed by the Pope as artists. They were later inherited by the Hapsburgs which I guess is how we wound up hungarian.

As to Eistein even he knew he wasn't always right. He made lots of errors even in his theory of relativity and never solved some big ones, but then no one is perfect. Actually, if he was right then our universe is just views of ourselves at multiple times in our evolution cycle i.e. re: light years.

I said DMK that it was YOUR view that was simple minded and not that of the administration. I love people who double speak and say flattering things they don't believe to hide the simple facts, that is I guess what you call negotiation and what I call hypocracy.

I too think we are all most fortunate that Al Gore lost the election, I think we are fortunate that the founding fathers realized it was possible to have an election where the largest number of people being resident in cities might outnumber those in the more rural areas and gave us the Electorial college. I was amazed that the election was even close after seeing the map of the USA colored in with the blue for the democrats and the red for the republicans.

I think it was too bad we had to waste 8 years and let the Iragi people suffer so long and be so disappointed we didn't come back to help them. I'm happy we got to keep our promise to them, better late than never.

Most of Europe was part of the coalition and I don't feel that the French and the Germans are the most important countries in Europe. As to the Russians well those poor souls haven't got a clue and are just trying to survive with some dignity. I do not blame them for the Bolsheviks who became the Soviets. I am proud that most of the countries of eastern Europe who spent their lives under the Soviet heel joined us because their experience helped them understand why a SH had to go before anyone could have peace or prosperity.

I am sure the Arab street which also abandoned SH is nervous, but they will see that we are not occupying the land but fulfilling our promises. Yes! Arafat might be unhappy because he is a member of the clan of unrealistic despots who double speak. He had his moment to reorganize his state but he chose to go the route of terrorism.

I remind you of the quote from Colin Powell who said "we have never asked for any land from any foreign war, except enough to bury our men who died there."

Battle Scarred Veteran

[DMK]

Did anyone catch the brief NPR report on the young men trying to catch the Republican Guard cavalry horses?

Almost as humorous as the Frontline report about the Special Forces officer trying to ride the Afghani pony down the mountain!

"Speak yer mind. But ride a fast horse"

[El Grande Stimpendo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but as I asked, what would be the downside of working through 1441? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nothing would have been accomplished and the enenmy in an inevitable resumption of hostilities would be given critically valuable time to prepare

[Glimmerglass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
Why is it we are urged to "support our troops," but won't listen to a troop who questions the war? A veteran who opposes the war is "shameful" and "an idiot."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As cited my opinion is that Mr. Ronney (spelling corrected) is an idiot in his remarks - and not just those of Sunday but most of his whine fest on 60 minutes - regardless of him having served in WWII. The latter doesn't make you untouchable and NO I am not a flag waiver absolute like others.

To snipe about the president and US policy from the bully pulpit of television yet offer ZERO solutions is not constructive and undermines ourselves as a nation. So this War was only about PR ideas of "freedom" & "liberation"?

The torture jails, the gassing of the Kurds, the development of more advanced weapons against humanity, the disregard of UN sanctions, the oppression of an entire country, the laboring of terrorists, and funding of devious activities outside of their country is all slick PR? It was really just Disneyland but more dusty over there?

You must be joking, right?

So a complaint cited is that troop strength wasn't big enough? Well from my own strategic military knowledge the amount of friendly fire episodes would have only increased. Casualties are being under reported? Well even if it was off by an amazing 25% then US deaths would still be under 150 to date. Compare that to the hundreds upon hundred lost by the Brits in the trivial Falkland Islands conflict.