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President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

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  • ANWR

    Dray, we could also open up a frozen Arctic wasteland about 5,000 miles from anywhere in order to drill for some proven reserves, too. And hence put ourselves in a better place as far as dependency on foreign oil is concerned.

    Thank goodness for the domestic oil we do have, and for the fine folks in TX, OK, LA, and elsewhere in the U.S. who do the hard tough work of pulling it out of the ground.

    If it weren't for yall we'd be paying $4 a gallon and appeasing Saddam like our pals, the French.

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
      I don't see that we have any choice. We ARE at risk. No, Iraq isn't the only threat, but it is a big one. IMO, it's not so much the weapons of mass destruction that pose a risk, but the madman with his finger on the launch button. That's why Saddam Hussein MUST be removed. This isn't about a country's right to arm itself, it's about a leader who wouldn't think twice about using those weapons in an unprovoked manner against the US and other nations.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      Oh please... exactly what "waepons of mass destruction" are you referring to? And anyway isn't that the point of war weapons? Don't we design them to do just that? There are countless countries with leaders that wouldn't hesitate to use weapons- are we going to fight them all? Because if so you can count me out..

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Saddam Hussein has had 12 YEARS to disarm himself. He has had 12 YEARS to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors. He has had 12 YEARS to comply with UN resolutions. He has had 12 YEARS to think it all over and change his mind. IMO, that time period is beyond generous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      Yeh, well Israel has had 30+ years to comply with the UN resolution to withdraw from the occupied territories. Don't see us going in there guns blazing.... oh wait they're our ally

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> perhaps 9/11 never would have happened, given Iraq's ties to terrorist organizations. No, Saddam is not Osama, but for all any of us know, they could be the best of buddies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      I absolutely guarantee you that they are not. A minimum of reading up on the issue would explain their fundamental differences.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And if they weren't before 9/11, they most certainly are now. That alone is a tremendous threat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      Says who? That kind of BS propagandha is dangerous and irresponsible.

      Yes after we invade I beleive that there will be terrorist attacks on US soil but I bet the majority of them won't be committed by Iraqis.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>America is the defender of the world because we are the strongest. We have the most powerful military in existence, so we are obliged not just to protect our own nation, but also those who are incapable of protecting themselves...like the Iraqi and Afghani people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      Yeh, we've done a fabulous job of making life better and more democratic for the Afghanis. Again I suggest you spend a little time reading up on this before forming your opinions.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When the dust settles and the horrors of the Iraqi regime are exposed for all the world to see, I'm sure the UN will realize how wrong they were...as will the rest of the naysayers. I think we will ALL be horrified and humbled when we realize just how close we were to more terrorism and destruction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      I seriously doubt that there is much going on in Iraq that the UN doesn't know about.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>9/11 was a wake up call for the world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      No, it was a play to start a Western/Arab war. And it's worked spectacularly well.

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Saddam Hussein has given us two options: Go to war now or live in fear indefinitely. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      I'm not afraid of Hussein and I never have been.

      Comment


      • GotSpots...
        I am so sorry that you read my post as an edict against free speech. I didn't mean that at all! Please accept my apology. This conversation is moving so fast that I have to back up to see who I have inadvertantly offended.

        Donna
        Carson Farm

        Comment


        • I have no great love for GW, I don't think he is the sharpest knife in the drawer. But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to do the right thing, sheesh. In real sense this is about oil. But not in the way, most people think.

          The french economy (such as it is) is heavily dependant on the income it derives from brokering Iraqi oil. Elf holds the distibution rights to most of the oil that comes out of the Iraqi fields. If Saddam is ousted from power, those distribution rights will be up for grabs (ce n'est pas bien, mes amis). Iraqi oil contributes a significant amount to the french economy. Iraq is an important trade partner (their 6th largest) for France. They have delusions about themselves and their influence (read Foreign Minister de Villepin's "The Cry of the Gargoyle"). The French want to position themselves as a global super power and yet they are financially beholden to the very nation the UN is supposed to police. The staus quo suits them fine.

          The Germans... well Schroeder (sp?) was elected on an anti-American platiform, this is nothing new for him.

          The Russians have nothing to loose and everything to gain by putting in with the French. Also since they are linked to the area geographically and have there own issues (Chetchnya), they would rather not upset the apple cart.

          Call me a cynic, the Europeans aren't pacifists. They have adopted their positions because of their own self interests. That is fine with me. But don't make simplistic arguements like this all about oil just because GW is from an oil back ground. This about oil for Saddam, the French and to a lesser extent, us. Oil prices are at an all time high world wide. That is much tougher on the Europeans than on us. My guess is that this influences their diplomacy heavily.
          See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

          Comment


          • Oh sweet holy mother of God.... Not ANOTHER leftist liberal tree hugging luv fest of the singing of koombayah and president bashing!!!!!! When you all are wearing towels on your heads and reciting the Koran maybe THEN you will appreciate what MORAL and decent leaders both Bush and Blair are .. They have the intestinnal fortitude to stand up to EVIL and and it to be REMOVED from this earth..And ANOTHER thing...the USA is only ENFORCING the UNs original ruling ...albiet TWELVE YEARS later! So NO we are NOT alone in the world we are STANDING up for the world and what is right.

            Betsy
            www.threewindsfarmny.com

            Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
            The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

            Comment


            • An additional problem that will face this administration, that they aren't talking about, is that we, as a country, just cannot understand the way that the Muslim world thinks and acts. It is just too foreign for us to grasp. And that is the reason that thinking we can simply march in, remove Saddam, and set up a democracy is so absurd. What will we do with all the women who have virtually no rights under their religious beliefs? Insist that these centuries old beliefs be dropped in the interests of democracy?

              Yes, we believe that democracy is the only way to go because that is all that most of us have ever known, and part of that democratization has been to instill the idea that it is the "only" right way. Just as Christianity insists it is the only true religion. Well, the FACT is, that it may NOT be suitable to these cultures, and we are going to end up in a morass that makes VietNam look like a cake walk.

              I sincerely hope not, but that is how I see it.

              Laurie
              Laurie

              Comment


              • Hrmmmmm, I think I'll go with the Pope on this one.

                I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                Comment


                • I apologize for the length of this, but I thought it was an interesting perspective from Tony Parsons, a columnist for the London Mirror.

                  ********
                  FRENCH DISSING IN THE U.S.A
                  Mar 17 2003

                  I HOPE that the continent of Europe never again needs help from the United States of America.

                  I hope that there's never some murderous little tyrant - another Hitler, another Milosevic - that Europe needs help in taming.

                  I hope that there's never some economic catastrophe that requires American dollars to make it right, as they did at the end of the Second World War.

                  I hope that the euro experiment works. I hope that all those peace-loving souls in Belgium, Germany and France can somehow muster an army to protect themselves.

                  I hope that the continent I live on never again needs to go cap in hand to the Americans.

                  Because if that black day ever comes, I have the feeling that America might just tell Europe where to go.

                  On the eve of war, there is a tangible anger in America. But surprisingly little of it is directed against the Iraqis. It is the French who are detested.

                  "This is all about oil," the Brits hear all the time. And Americans think it is "all about oil" too. The $50 billion worth of oil contracts that France has with Iraq. In American eyes, that is why the French are so keen to avoid war.

                  Anti-French feeling in the United Kingdom is never more than a passing fancy, a jokey bit of "hop-off-you-Frogs" banter.

                  Not in America.

                  THE cafeteria in the House of Representatives no longer serves French fries - chips to you and me, guvnor. Now they sell something called "freedom fries". That sounds nuts - and of course it is.

                  But when a furious Congresswoman presents a "bring home our dead" bill demanding that the 75,000 American men and boys who died in France during two world wars be dug up and brought home, you realise that this is more than "hop-off-you-Frogs" banter.

                  Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite says, "The remains of our brave servicemen should be buried in patriotic soil, not in a country that has turned its back on the US and on the memory of Americans who fought and died there."

                  That's the difference between the British and the Americans.

                  We do not feel that the British casualties in two world wars died to liberate the French. We believe that we were fighting for our nation's survival. Just like the Russians.

                  It is different for Americans.

                  Throughout the 20th century, through two world wars and one Cold War, America gave all the blood and money Europe needed to keep it free.

                  They feel that the current crisis has proved that Europeans are, when all is said and done, an ungrateful bunch of Euro bastards who do not give a flying baguette about the 75,000 American graves in Europe.

                  Anti-European feeling goes right across the board of public opinion, even among the millions of Americans who are passionately against attacking Iraq. America is united in feeling betrayed by Europe. America is finally starting to understand that - to Europe's eternal shame - there is an opinion that 9/11 was America's comeuppance.

                  Secretaries and waiters leaping from the top of the burning twin towers? The fault of American arrogance.

                  A terrified four-year-old girl cowering at the back of a hijacked plane? Blame it on America's support for Israel. A stewardess with her throat slit by a carpet cutter? One in the eye for American imperialism.

                  Those 3,000 dead, murdered on live television? Europe blames America.

                  When 9/11 happened, you might have expected to see Palestinians dancing in the street. But who would have expected the grim look of satisfaction on the faces of old Europe?

                  But the British are absolved of Europe's sins. Those who are against the war admire Britain because we had a peace march where one million people filled the streets.

                  Those for the war admire Britain because Tony Blair has been a true friend to America. And although the man on the M25 might make jibes about Blair being a "poodle", among American hawks our Prime Minister is seen as dangerously strong-willed.

                  THERE is a school of opinion in America that believes the war could have been over by last Christmas if Tony Blair had not been so keen on proceeding through the correct diplomatic channels. Nobody calls Tony Blair a poodle in the USA.

                  It has been good to be British in America these past few weeks

                  For America has been reminded that Britain is the best friend it has in the world, joined by blood, language, history, instinct and culture.

                  When will the British wake up from their pathetic little dreams of being Europeans and realise that we have been looking for our future in all the wrong places?

                  Who wants to be European today? Who wants to be an ungrateful, unprincipled, two-faced, pacifist, Euro-grasping, oil-hungry Lilliputian?

                  No matter what happens over the coming days and weeks, it is true what they say. The English Channel is far wider than the Atlantic.

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  A dog has one master, a cat has an entire staff.
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?

                  Comment


                  • Jumphigh83...
                    pul--ez don't lump us all together. I'll be damn if I wear a towel on my head a read to Koran. I've read some of that piece of the trash. (Was that convincing? I've tried to take a more logical tone in prior posts, but you grouped everyone on this discussion on the same side...if you're going to spend money that clearly says, "In God we trust", then do it.)

                    The UN has turned itself inside out and is trying to recant disamrmament rulings from 12 years ago and a lot of lilly-livered pacivists are not going to have the freedom of speech...or their children and grandchildren won't if America doesn't take a stand. And America won't let is slide any longer. This should have been done a long time ago.

                    Our entire value system has eroded as a result of trying to pacify the rest of the world aznd sweep crap under rugs. "Blazing Saddles" was rated R originally...now the PG-13 movies make it look like it should have been G rated. It's time to reel it in, draw some lines between right and wrong and eliminate the infinite shades of grey that Clinton tried to program us into seeing.

                    Comment


                    • Could you people please be a LITTLE more sensitive to those of us who are Muslim-Americans or are friends of Muslim-Americans?
                      BTW they don't wear towels on their heads...

                      Canterlope: thanks for the article...very interesting!
                      http://www.halfpassfarmva.com

                      Comment


                      • Thank you, Brits!

                        Great column from Parsons, canterlope. Bless the Brits.

                        Groundskeeper Willie of "The Simpsons" had it right about the French: they are cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

                        Comment


                        • Whoa whoa whoa! Time to get out the pelham here, or maybe a nice strong gag in some cases!

                          This is one of the off topics we allow because it is of great importance to our country, our world, and all of us. But please, try to make your points without personally attacking the beliefs of those who disagee, whether it be about politics, history, or religion.

                          Remember the point of this thread was and is to honor and pray (or otherwise send wishes for a safe return as your personal beliefs provide) for the men and women who are soon going into harms way. Americans, Europeans, and most of the rest of the world, whatever their political, social, or religious beliefs, can all be united in that.

                          Please, try to remember that many of us have Muslim friends, and there are Muslims in the US and British forces going into Iraq. Being Muslim does not make one a terrorist or a terrorist threat any more than being a devout Christian makes one a supporter of the Posse Comitatus, Aryan Nation, or Tim McVeigh.
                          "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                          Comment


                          • Good post, canterlope.

                            Reminds me of the piece written by a Candian journalist re: America that was widely circulated after 9/11.

                            Wonder what he is thinking about Canada's non-support?

                            Laurie
                            Laurie

                            Comment


                            • Just let me inerject that when people say "Europeans" don't always assume that France and Germany make up the whole pie. The US Department of State has over 30 countries backing our position with the Disarmament of Iraq.

                              They partially include on the Continent: Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Italy, Macedonia, Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Solovakia, and Spain.

                              Comment


                              • Canterlope,
                                Great post from Tony Parsons. Thanks.

                                Comment


                                • Thanks Canterlope. I copied that one to my email!

                                  "Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you. Give me a pig. He just looks you in the eye and treats you as an equal" Winston Churchill
                                  "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

                                  Comment


                                  • Thanks Portia

                                    Tense times we're in.

                                    Thanks to you, ALL the mods, and the COTH for providing this BB - I don't know why, but I feel better doing a bit of geopolitical discussing/venting with my fellow horse people here. Even with my fellow horsepeople who I am in disagreement with over this impending war.

                                    And again, prayers of wisdom to our nation's leadership and prayers of comfort and safety to the troops.

                                    But I still think "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" is excellent

                                    Comment


                                    • Now, if you really want to be scared out of your wits, read this article by Jake Tapper from today's Salon.com (which, in my opinion, has offered some of the best coverage of these issues available.)

                                      Salon Article on Chemical Plant Vulnerabilities
                                      "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                                      Comment


                                      • Sorry Jlther,

                                        But I have read the Koran and don't buy it. I also believe in evolution and as such believe the Bible has great allagory. I do believe in God!

                                        the towel remark was over the top, but I was responding to Jump who grouped us all together so it was over the top for purpose of example. I was doing International sales and closed a huge deal with TelMex and the guy I worked for was Muslum and let me go when I told him I was pregnant because "women in his country"...so I lost medical benefits. And if it makes you feel any better, I still begrudge the fact that a really large, nice piece of property in Moore County, NC was all but ripped from my family during the wasr of northern aggression...or at least the poverty of the aftermath. so, who else did I offend???

                                        Comment


                                        • Dray, I appreciate your apology. Just try to remember that just because some of us don't agree with you on the righteousnous of this war, we still care about our troops and our personnel who are doing their best to do their jobs. I may not agree with what you're saying, but I will jump up and down for the right for you to proclaim it from the rooftops.

                                          And heck, I'll still admire your horses and cheer you on in the show ring too. Let's all try to take a deep breath around here and remember that this is a very tense time for everyone. Please try to be respectful and kind right now, because we have friends in our community who have loved ones at risk, are perhaps themselves at risk due to misperceptions about their ethnicity or background, or religion.

                                          These are rough times, friends. I can't go pat my pony today, so someone give theirs an extra carrot for me. I found Nanci Griffith's new song (Free download here) to be comforting. Pray for peace and sanity.

                                          Comment

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