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President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

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  • OMG, poltroon! That is hysterical!

    Thanks!

    I kind of thought this thread was dieing this morning, but it has livened up a bit.

    ********
    Proud to be an American!

    Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:

      Calico - our public libraries want to let our children (my 14 year old son included) to have unrestricted access to pornography in the name of the first amendment. Do you have instances you can point out of librarians and booksellers burning receipts? Do they have to turn copies in to the government? And communism is dead. A proven failure. Who cares who reads the communist manifesto. I hope they learn how not to do things by reading it.


      ********
      Proud to be an American!

      Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      It's happening, I personally know. Plus, it turned up in a BBC article a couple months ago, but I'm busy and don't have the time now to dig it up. Perhaps communist manifesto wasn't relevant, how about 'the satanic verses', or the koran

      And, libraries are not foistering porn off on your son; they are providing free access to information, whatever information is out there. Internet filters suck, really bad, can't access sites like the Dykes Library at the University of Kansas Medical Center.

      If you think your son is going to the library to look at porn, maybe you, as his mother, can talk with him about it?

      Oh, and LOVE the John Cleese thing, he's one of my favorites!

      Comment


      • And John Cleese makes it horse related, since his daughter did the Big Eq.

        Comment


        • An, he galloped through the british countryside with coconuts for horses

          Comment


          • Ok, I had this thought... Dick Cheney, where the hell has he been since Sept 11? ORiginally, I thought he died and they were keeping him in the closet for later. You occasionally get a glimpse, or catch a news byte, but he's basically not around. What if he puts on a $2.50 groucho marx face and becomes Saddam Hussein? THink about it - you never see them together, do you?

            Or is Geraldo Rivera Saddam? hmmmm....

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
              OK, here is my war-related thought of the day. I'm not sure why it is that both the media and the administration are getting so worked up over the fact that this war will probably take months, not weeks or days. The media is treating it like a huge revelation that the Iraqis are actually fighting back, and that we didn't blow through Baghdad already. And the administration is all pissy at them for continuing to ask about it.

              Uh, is this the first time that war has not gone exactly as planned? I don't really see what the big deal is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Total agreement here. It seems all I've heard today is how the war is going to take soooo much longer than expected. It's been 1 1/2 weeks! Nobody in their right mind would think it would be over by now. I haven't heard any in the top-level administration or military say (i.e. Bush, Rumsfeld, Powell, Franks) it wouldn't take very long...I think that's probably why they're getting pissy. I know I'd be getting pissy if they kept asking me over and over again.

              "The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coreene:
                Well. Not to get into a Clinton / Bush discussion, but I will say that, had I been Monica, I'd have picked Bill too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



                My choice would have to be, politics aside, GWB.
                I dont' go for guys with a fatter a$$ than my own.

                "The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look at it without doing anything." Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • poltroon,

                  Sorry, but that article you say was written by John Cleese was actually written by Andrew Marlatt. Here is the orginal version as published on his wesite: Satirewire.com, Feb. 1, 2002: http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/axis.shtml

                  Here are the orginal author's comments:

                  Author's note: Strangely enow, this SatireWire story lately has been zipping around the 'Net attributed to John Cleese. That's flattering and funny and all, but now I'm getting so many emails asking who "really" wrote it that it will make my life easier to nip it here. I apologize for any disappoinment, but the story was written by Andrew Marlatt. It first appeared on SatireWire on Feb. 1, 2002, and was subsequently published in several major newspapers, including this version still available at The Washington Post. So that's the deal. All the best -- Andrew.

                  Comment


                  • Personally, I LOVE George Bush, I HATE the TV Media, and I support this war 100% without a doubt.

                    I may not agree with everything George Bush says, and he may not be as articulate as other presidents we've had, but I truly believe that someday we will not look back like we've done to the Holocaust and think "How could we have let this happen."

                    The more I learn about WWII, the more eery this war gets.

                    And Poltroon, that Axis of Evil thing is hilarious.

                    As I said before, I never repeat myself.
                    My Web Site

                    Comment


                    • Thanks for the correction, Reed. I should've known better and I should've checked it out first. But, it's still very funny. Thanks for giving us the correct author.

                      On the whole Hitler thing... I can't verify this but I think the Bush/Hitler comparisons came after the Hussein/Hitler comparisons, sort of a backlash.

                      The scary thing is that both comparisons have a lot of similarity. I certainly don't think Bush is anything like Hitler (and I hope I still think so in 10 years! ) but the parallels between German history in the 30's and current events in the US are as alarming as the idea of letting a brutal dictator gain power in the Middle East. In Germany, the rise of facism began after the democratically elected government cracked down on civil liberties after a terrorist attack...
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment


                      • 12 years was not long enough trying to deal with this monster diplomatically?? Oy Vey you people are unbelievable.
                        POG MO THON other nations may swear,but the Irish really mean it.

                        Comment


                        • Actually, listening to NPR tonight, I got the impression that top military officials are not pleased with the adminstration's lack of approval of more ground troups. How did they say it? "Boots on the Ground" ??

                          http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...nion.cakewalk/

                          From CNN Robert Novak

                          Nevertheless, Adelman and Rumsfeld both overestimated the gap between U.S. and Iraqi military prowess. According to Defense Department sources, Rumsfeld at first insisted that vast air superiority and a degraded Iraqi military would enable 75,000 U.S. troops to win the war.

                          Gen. Tommy Franks, the theater commander-in-chief, convinced Rumsfeld to send 250,000 (augmented by 45,000 British). However, the Army would have preferred a much deeper force, leading to anxiety inside the Pentagon in the first week of war.

                          I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf

                          [This message was edited by bgoosewood on Mar. 28, 2003 at 10:45 PM.]
                          The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                          Comment


                          • poltroon,

                            I agree. From the Bush domestic policy this is like WWII Germany, otherwise, PJG, I beg to differ with your view. This war has little similarity with WWII, which was the result of direct attacks on other countries by an imperialistic Germany. This "war" is the direct result of the "neo-Reagan" ideal created by Wolfowitz during the first Bush administration he called a "pre-emptive" war. It has even been published in government documents from that time period. At the time of the first Gulf War this idea was SO abhorrent, George Senior publicly distanced himself from Wolfowitz. Now, Wolfowitz has a sympathetic ear in George Jr. In other words this conflict has been in the works since 1991.

                            There are other dictators more destructive than Hussein in today's world, e.g. North Korea. Speaking of NK, did anybody see that today they said they are pulling out of the 1953 armistice agreement that ended the Korean Conflict due to the US build-up in the region? We might soon get another front and this time nuclear weapons will be involved.

                            As a second generation Jew of a family that fled the Russian pogroms in Lithuania, I have gotten first hand understanding of the Holocaust, provided by other friends and family. Hitler was trying to create the supreme race. Hussein is simply trying to control the population. As a matter of fact, Hussein is closer to Stalin than Hitler. Admittedly, Stalin was even worse than Hitler (over 20 million killed during his "reign").

                            From the media, this war sounds more like Viet Nam. The national pride and single minded sense of purpose in the US is nowhere to be seen.

                            Reed

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
                              The scary thing is that both comparisons have a lot of similarity. In Germany, the rise of facism began after the democratically elected government cracked down on civil liberties after a terrorist attack...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              The terrorist attack you speak of was actually done by the nazis to claim that communist terrorists had done it. It was the Reichstag fire after Hitler was made Chancellor. I did a quick search and it's believed Goering, the nazi with the quote about bringing people to a leaders bidding, engineered it.

                              Another poster had a link to a story that took it out of context also making a bush/hitler comparrison. Sad.

                              The first time I saw such a comparison was not long after Sept. 11. Lots of French and Greek comments and posts that were rallying around a popular French book claiming the US, Bush and the CIA ordered the 911 attack to do something similar as the above. Sick stuff that was actually getting quite popular.

                              The Kyoto treaty and arrogant speech I can understand. The above, imo is just a tool of anti americanism.

                              [This message was edited by Moose on Mar. 29, 2003 at 02:12 AM.]

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAyers:
                                There are other dictators more destructive than Hussein in today's world, e.g. North Korea. Speaking of NK, did anybody see that today they said they are pulling out of the 1953 armistice agreement that ended the Korean Conflict due to the US build-up in the region? We might soon get another front and this time nuclear weapons will be involved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Finally found it! A post on a thread long ago had this, it always hung with me, esp because of NK today. Particularly the part where one of the general's said "but we've got to have it".

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Oct. 03, 2001 09:30 PM
                                Interesting article...
                                Top Military Commanders Warn of Larger, Global War
                                John Edwards
                                Wednesday, Oct. 3, 2001
                                Two of America's top former military commanders warn that America could quickly find itself in a global war. In an exclusive interview as part of NewsMax's Presidential Briefing series, Adm. Thomas Moorer and Gen. Jack Singlaub reveal several disturbing concerns about a major escalation in the months ahead.

                                Both have unassailable credentials. Adm. Moorer served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation's highest-ranking military official, and helped bring the Vietnam War to an end.

                                Gen. Singlaub is former chief of staff for U.S. forces in South Korea. In addition to serving as a field commander, he was also assigned to the CIA and is an expert on unconventional warfare.

                                Moorer and Singlaub have held combat command positions in World War II, Korea and Vietnam.
                                Both share the view that the likelihood of a greater war is strong, and fear that if several fronts opened up against the U.S. in hot spots like Taiwan and Korea, the results could be catastrophic for the United States.
                                "It's not like any war we have been in before, but we have got to have it," Adm. Moorer explains.
                                Moorer and Singlaub say the nature of this war will require several steps, with the first military moves aimed at eliminating terrorist cells.
                                But Moorer believes that the war will do the job only if we go after the nations that support terrorism, including Iraq, Iran and Syria.
                                "I think the war is going to broaden. I think that the president made it quite clear that this is a pure case of good vs. evil and those who want to live in peace must unite and eliminate those who want to kill one another," Gen. Singlaub says.
                                He adds ominously, "We just have to recognize that it's going to develop into a larger war and there are lots of people and nations involved."
                                In "America on the Brink of Global War," Moorer and Singlaub make several key points, the same ones they would tell the president if they were in the Pentagon today:
                                * Focus on the Likelihood of a Bigger War. Both military commanders insist that while they would have Pentagon strategists working to deal with Osama bin Laden, the Pentagon's main focus should be to prevent and prepare for a major war.
                                Singlaub explains: "We have to be thinking along those lines and not get ourselves committed in one area."

                                * Possible Flashpoints: Korea and Taiwan. Moorer and Singlaub see these as strong possibilities for the outbreak of a larger war.
                                Noting the diminished size of the U.S. military, now 40 percent smaller than it was just 10 years ago, a country like China may make a play for Taiwan while American military resources are so focused in the Mideast.
                                Worse, North Korea may launch its long-awaited invasion of South Korea. More than 30,000 American troops still sit near the Korean Demilitarized Zone, and Gen. Singlaub, an expert on Korea, doubts U.S. forces could repel an armored invasion. The U.S. may have to use tactical nuclear weapons to stop an advance, he believes.
                                Moorer adds: "This is the whole point ? if the U.S. focuses so much strength in one area," one or more of America's enemies may seize the opportunity to attack.

                                * Oil Kingdoms, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, at Risk. Despite the large U.S. buildup in the Middle East, both commanders believe there is little the U.S. could do to stop Saddam Hussein from invading and capturing Kuwait as he did in 1990. A similar threat exists to Saudi Arabia. Singlaub observed that during the Gulf War the U.S. had five divisions in Germany that were quickly moved to the region, with the air and naval support to move them there.
                                That isn't true today, he said. By the time we mobilize to prevent an Iraqi offensive, it will be "too late."
                                Moorer agrees. He thinks U.S. forces could eventually dislodge Hussein, but it would take much longer and the U.S. could expect heavy casualties this time.

                                * Secure the Panama Canal Now. Both veteran military experts advise the U.S. to immediately secure the Panama Canal. Moorer says the U.S. has no troops in Panama now, and we need to make arrangements with the Panamanian government to ensure there is no interruption of Navy movement between the Atlantic and Pacific.
                                Singlaub notes that any interruption by terrorists, or by the Chinese company that controls the canal, could have catastrophic consequences for U.S. forces in Asia if, say, South Korea was invaded. Both commanders say in such a scenario even a matter of days could prove critical in preserving thousands of American lives.
                                "We cannot afford to lose the most strategic waterway in the world to our enemies," Gen. Singlaub says.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Comment


                                • Moose, that article is one of the scariest things I have read in a long time. I sincerely hope that the US does not get itself into a global war, though it sure feels like it. Very frightening

                                  Elippses Users Clique........
                                  Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group
                                  Ellipses users clique ...
                                  TGFPT,HYOOTGP

                                  Comment


                                  • ugh. this is maddening.

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calico:
                                      And, libraries are not foistering porn off on your son; they are providing free access to information, whatever information is out there. Internet filters suck, really bad, can't access sites like the Dykes Library at the University of Kansas Medical Center.

                                      If you think your son is going to the library to look at porn, maybe you, as his mother, can talk with him about it?
                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      "...Whatever information is out there." You mean including pornography? Sadly, we do not go to the public libraries often. Plus I would never allow my kids to use public computers to access the internet. They can do that right here under my watchful eyes.

                                      On another note, did anyone hear about the terrorist-like car bombing that killed four of our soldiers? Or that the Iraqi Defense Minister (or some such titled official) has been fired because his SAM missles have failed to take out US planes over Bagdad and have in fact, fallen into the city of Bagdad? Hmmmm, any guesses as to where they may have fallen in that city? And did anyone see the interview with the 'human sheilds' who recently left Bagdad who say you have to drive around a bit to find the bombed out areas and they were very much well targeted government buildings?

                                      Ah, but none of this would have happened if we had not gone there in the first place, so it must be the US's fault. Hey, lets try Bush for war crimes! Never mind what the Iraqi's have done. They are an independent country, and if any of their citizens could survive being a dissident, they would just remove Saddam from power if they did not like him. &lt;insert sarcasm smilie here&gt;

                                      Sometimes I am shamed of those who call themselves Americans.

                                      ********
                                      I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

                                      I'm just the mom.

                                      Proud to be an American!

                                      Comment


                                      • Did anyone see "Now with Bill Moyers" on PBS last night? If not, everyone who is interested in this thread should try to see that episode.

                                        A few highlights
                                        -Donald Rumsfeld is advised by a citizens "defense" panel, which is in large part composed of people with monetary interests in defense contractors and at least some of whom are lobbyists for defense contractors. One member was/is a lobbyist for a foreign arms dealer. These people do not have to disclose their ties to the industry to the public.
                                        -Cheney has been granted the power to single handedly classify any and all documents he sees fit.
                                        -the administration has been pressuring large corporations to rally their stockholders to vote for Bush's tax cut. PACs have threatened congressmen to get in line.
                                        -That same tax cut would give (as an example) the CEO of Citibank a $7+ million increase in earnings. It would give the average Stockholder under a hundred bucks and wouldn't apply at all to Americans with their savings in a 401k or who don't own dividend returning stocks (ie most stocks). Meanwhile Detroit had to close sixteen public schools for lack of funds and other districts are slashing teachers salaries around the country.
                                        -they showed elderly people in Oregon being kicked out of nursing homes and others nation wide who had lost their drug benefits.
                                        -they showed counties that are letting hundreds of prisoners out of jail b/c they don't have the money to keep them in!!! Some of them were sex-offenders.

                                        There was a lot more, but basically our children and our elderly are going to be the ones paying or this war. Education is being compromised badly. Personally I don't think the expenditures associated with this war are going to be "over" for years. And remember we still owe Afghanistan most of the aid we pledged them. That money has to come from somewhere!

                                        The US is also ramping up for war in Korea. We cannot afford this war! and we really can't afford tax cuts on top of war. Not to mention the enormous amounts of foreign investment that have been withdrawn from this country over the past two years and re-invested elsewhere (mostly Europe) due in part to the current administrations unwillingness to address corporate ill-deeds and in part to our faltering economy (also unaddressed).

                                        I don't hate GWB I just think he's totally in over his head and too arrogant to see it. I think that many people currently in power are using this administration to line their own pockets. I pay taxes to prevent that kind of thing- not to fund it!!

                                        Comment


                                        • In addition I just got back from a trip abroad and the damage that Bush has done to the "image" of the American state as a rock-solid entity financially and as the "good guys" is tremendous. A lot of people are not sure that America will even "win" this war, in so far as they are not convinced that we have "won" in Afghanistan yet.

                                          Most anti-war sentiment is fear of an endless un-winnable engagement and the ripple effect taking out stable governments in other countries, or causing people to contribute to paramilitary groups. Something that to us looks simple, like US special Ops working with the Kurdish militia to fight Islamic radicals, has the capacity to make other people very very nervous (what are they going to do with those weapons after this is over, what deals have been struck to ensure their help etc. etc.)

                                          We need to understand that and not trivialize very real concerns to "Oh they hate Americans" or "Where would they be without us". The truth is that without the rest of the world buying our products and investing in our companies we would be in a world of hurt too.

                                          Comment

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