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President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

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  • Alright Reed!

    Dissent is what helps to hold our elected officials accountable.

    Now that the war has started, I personally would like it to continue until the job is done. But, that doesn't mean I think that freedom of speech should just suddenly take a back seat. THe protesters are doing their job by helping to balance the discussion. If that bothers people then I think they need to learn more about the country they are defending. Like someone said earlier, Democracy isn't always pretty, and particularly freedom of speech. There are no easy answers.

    Yeah, that 9/11 song makes me ill; what a piece of drivel, just as I'm sure MM's rant made people ill. Sometimes free speech is like that.

    I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
    The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
      Yeah, that 9/11 song makes me ill; what a piece of drivel<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      You think that's bad, check out this Charlie Daniels song

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This ain't no rag it's a flag And we don't wear it on our heads
      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      And to think that Charlie and Jack used to be my two favorite Daniels

      With all the heat the "Hollywood liberals" are getting for being "unpatriotic", there's a lot of thinly disguised racism and hate being passed off as patriotism by entertainers at the other end of the spectrum .. and Charlie doesn't even try to be subtle with the "raghead" reference. There's nothing wrong with being proud of all the good things about America (and we have a lot to be proud of). But in spite of all their rahrah flagwaving asskicking frenzy, I'd have to say that these appeals to bigotry and assaults on free speech are pretty unAmerican

      Comment


      • Here's a link to an excellent piece in the Washington Post about just how badly the Bush Administration bungled the Turkey situation and how it is affecting the war:

        Wash Post re: Turkey

        So what exactly are the strengths of the Bush Administration? They mislead the US into a war that does not go according to plan. They're inept at diplomacy. The economy is heading steadily south. They put severe limits on our most basic rights.

        How can anyone support this group?

        Comment


        • Is that CD song the one he wrote about Osama after 9/11?

          So let me get this straight. The Arabs are allowed to hate us and we need to understand, but CD is a racist?

          Is Osama a racist? Are the Arabs who hate Westerners racists?

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JER:

            How can anyone support this group?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            As I've said before, I hate Bush and don't support him. BUT he's the boss, he's made the decision and we have to live & die with it. Because our soldiers are over there fighting and dying, I support them; I want them to win and be done. Don't you get it? The decision's made, man, it's done. Me lying on the street in NYC is not going to stop the 4th ID from being deployed. I'm not the boss; I don't make those decisions. We begged him not to fight, he made the decision to fight. Am I going to wash my hands of the thousands of soldiers over there? No way. I'm going to support them whole-heartedly and HELP them because they're in the middle of it. And next time, because there will be a next time if Bush stays in office, I will fight harder beforehand to stop it. But abandon support of the guys who have been ordered into the fray? Never.

            I didn't vote for Bush and I won't vote for him again, not matter the outcome this time.

            Comment


            • Speaking of Charlie Daniels, this is the sort of stuff he was writing when Americans were still in Vietnam:

              Long-Haired Country Boy

              Slightly different sentiments, I think.

              Comment


              • Unfortunately, hate is not something that you can "allow" or "forbid". I would certainly be happier if Arabs didn't hate Americans, but I can't say they're allowed to or not allowed to.

                As far as Osama, I certainly think that his willingness to kill thousands of American civilians just because they're Americans could be a sign of racism. On the other hand, maybe there are other explanations. Racism might not be the appropriate term if he's equally willing to kill civilians of any color, and I suspect that he might be. Whatever you call him, he's certainly not a nice person. But I don't think we have to hate everybody that looks like him, alsthough I certainly can't "not allow" you to do that.

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JER:

                  So what exactly are the strengths of the Bush Administration? They mislead the US into a war that does not go according to plan. They're inept at diplomacy. The economy is heading steadily south. They put severe limits on our most basic rights.

                  How can anyone support this group?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Don't worry. A big fat tax cut will solve all our problems!!

                  I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                  The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SimpsoMatt:

                    You think that's bad, check out this http://www.cdbfan.com/flag.htm

                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Oh GAWD.....he really is in his own little world isn't he.

                    I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                    The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                    Comment


                    • nwhr,

                      You are correct. Our delay in entering into WWII may have enabled atrocities to occur that would not have otherwise happened. My point here is that many of the arguments used to justify the current conflict in Iraq seem to be based on our past experiences, however it seems the administration leaves out the pertinent details about the past.

                      Example: Does this sound familiar?
                      “After storming up the country from Basra to free its people from their dictators our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies, but as liberators. People of Baghdad, remember for 26 generations you have suffered under strange tyrants who have ever endeavoured to set one Arab house against another in order that they might profit by your dissensions. This policy is abhorrent to Great Britain and her Allies for there can be neither peace nor prosperity where there is enmity or misgovernment.” These words were uttered by Lt. General Stanley Maude on March 8, 1917.

                      Over the next few years it became a British occupation (as they sought control over the Iraqi oil fields) because they cold not unite the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds into an administration modeled under western ideals, over 10,000 Iraqis were killed in violent uprisings against their “liberators” who also at the time resorted to gas attacks to suppress the revolts. Is it any wonder why the British and American forces are NOT being met with open arms? What would we do if somebody had done the same to the US 86 years ago? We would be just as suspicious.

                      Another example of history, one better suited to the WWII example, why did Russians, under the dictator Stalin fight against the “liberating” armies of Germany? The everyday Soviets at that time had no idea of the equally brutal practices of the Nazi regime, so for all they knew Germany could be a saving grace from the dictator, Stalin. Yes, many were threatened with death if they did not fight, (the Fedayeem Saddam currently follow this tactic), but even more importantly was a nationalistic pride that here was another country INVADING our land, not liberating it. The same is happening in Iraq now.

                      The French invaded Syria in the early 1900s. Pope Urbans called for the first Crusades in 1095. Napoleon invaded Egypt in 1798. All done under the guise of “liberation.” Doesn’t anybody notice a trend here?

                      Our government is saying the same things to us now that many others said over 900 years ago! I think it is time for us to realize the “middle east” does not NEED nor WANT our “liberation.” If we are going in to Iraq because of Wolfowitz’s doctrine of “pre-emptive war" to remove WMDs and affect suspected terrorists (developed during the first Gulf War under Goerge the First), then why doesn’t our government just tell us so? This alternative moralistic, altruistic banter has worn thin and doesn’t wash with those that live in Iraq, as well as many people in the rest of the world.

                      The point I am making? While many people use the past as a rallying cry for this conflict, they have forgotten the lessons it has taught us.

                      Reed

                      Comment


                      • A piece in the newspaper is usually only deemed "excellent" if you agree with it.

                        Neither The Washington Post nor The New York Times is everyone's bible.......
                        [i]\"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be wo

                        Comment


                        • I would just like to know the answers to a few things. I am not trying to start anything, so please take this question for exactly what it is. I do understand that some of you oppose this war, and that you feel you are right. I may not understand, but I have tried to understand, and I respect your right to disagree with me. Some things still leave me very confused. Oh lordy, this is long, but bear with me, please.

                          First -
                          Why the almost violent hatred for George W Bush? And I mean before the Iraq invasion, not after.

                          Is it because he is conservative? If that is so, is that not hypocritical of you? The very thing you accuse conservatives of, you are guilty of – intolerance. You can disagree with one’s view without hatred. White Christians are not the enemy of America. Our 2nd amendment was founded not on the principle of freedom from religion, but freedom from a government mandated religion. If GWB says he prays to his God for guidance, that is his right as an individual. Has anyone taken notice that there are more ranking government individuals of color in the conservative sector than in the liberal? Or do most liberals take the view of that Florida DJ whose song claims that Condeleeza Rice is only a White House servant? Where was the media outcry when Ms Rice was a victim of racial hate? Or is it that only conservatives are guilty of racism?

                          Is it because of the “college frat” image of his past? If that is so, how different is that from Bill “I didn’t inhale” Clinton? At least GWB admitted his transgressions. He did not lie to the American public. And he has told the American public about his past problems and has worked towards improving himself. It is obvious he is not the same man he was in college.

                          Is it because he was elected in a controversial presidential election? The laws of our constitution elected GWB. He is not the first President to not have the popular vote. And he won’t be the last. If you have a problem with that, don’t blame GWB, blame the system. And change it with your voice and your vote.

                          Is it that his family is an “oil family”? Oil businessmen are no different from any other businessmen. I think Hollywood has skewed our view of the oil business. Did I say “Hollywood”? Now that is a hotbed of fiction and hypocrisy. Don’t even get me started on that bunch.

                          I just don’t understand such absolute, outspoken, and what seems to be pure hatred for this man. He is a man no different from any other American man. This is a man who nearly cried with his grief on international tv after the 9/11 attacks. Don’t even tell me it was contrived. We ALL cried out with our grief that day. Although tragic, grief was not limited to those who lost loved ones. Along with loved ones, we lost our innocence, our sense of security. This is a man who made a promise to the people of America to end international terrorism and terrorist supporters, wherever and whoever they are. He promised he would do everything in his power to ensure that 9/11 did not happen again, here or elsewhere in our global community. He has to start somewhere. It is not bigotry or racism that is served in attacking Iraq. Saddam openly supports terrorists, most blatantly by paying the families of Pakistani suicide bombers large sums of AMERICAN dollars. Saddam is a threat to world peace.

                          Second -
                          As the most powerful country in the world (militarily and economically), don’t we have responsibilities to the world community? Just like corporations have social responsibilities. We PAY for the UN to exist. Not France. Not Germany. Not Russia. Not that it means the UN has to do as we say, by any means. History shows that the UN has many times gone against American wishes, but America has stood back and honored the vote in the UN. America and its coalition are only doing the job that the UN refuses to do – and that is to uphold its own resolutions. If the UN continues to make resolution after resolution and never enforce those resolutions, then they become worthless. Just like a parent who punishes their child for transgressions, but never enforces the punishment. You wind up with an out of control child who has no respect for authority and the laws governing society.

                          Try to remember who it is that the world calls on time and time again to solve military conflicts.

                          Why start now when we never did before? You have to ask past administrations. Why did THEY not begin the process to end international terrorism? Maybe if they did, the loved ones lost on 9/11 would still be with us.

                          As far as Cheney and Halliburton are concerned – corporations network just like average people do. Do you not make friends whom at some point in your life you can count on for assistance? Corporations are a living entity not unlike a person. Any business school professor will tell you that. Still, I think there needs to be justification as to why Halliburton is more qualified than other corporations.

                          Third -
                          To those who say we need to spend our money fighting our own problems rather than Iraq’s – some people, including myself believe we are fighting our own problems. See my comments above about responsibilities to the world community. We do need to hold our elected officials accountable, but I think those protesters need to see that they are taking funds from the communities that could be spent in assistance to the reservists’ families who are no longer receiving paychecks from the reservists’ normal jobs. $900,000 spent keeping protesters in line in SF could go along way to feed, clothe, and house the spouse and children of reservists who are unable to provide their normal monetary support while serving our country. We have the government-given right to stage protests, but my God let’s do this in a better way than disruptions day after day after day. Are any of these protesters assisting those families of our reserve servicemen who are in such great need at this time?




                          I just don’t understand some of the viewpoints on these three issues. Maybe I never will. The one that concerns me most is the hatred for GWB. I am at a loss as to understand hatred, especially from those whose fight so hard against hatred.


                          Eomer – I think it was the Germans who first referred to anyone as “Hitler” in this conflict, not the US. It was Helmut Schmidt, and he was referring to Bush.

                          JER – What “severe limits on our most basic rights” are you talking about?

                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> originally posted by Anne FS
                          So let me get this straight. The Arabs are allowed to hate us and we need to understand, but CD is a racist?
                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          Well, yes. Because America itself is evil and racist, especially white Christian America. Because America is a terrorist nation who needs to lay down its arms and allow other nations to murder its citizens and other citizens of the world.

                          ********
                          Proud to be an American!

                          Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
                            On my other side of the fmaily we come from a long family line in Turkey, a country that has always been considered a great ally of the U.S. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Liked the post.

                            Just want to make a small historical correction if I may... Turkey became Turkey as we know it (ie, the Republic of Turkey) in 1923. It was previously part of the Ottoman Empire, which was an enemy of the coalition the U.S. belonged to in WWI.

                            I think that's right at least!

                            Support F.O.B.B.

                            Comment


                            • Why I strongly dislike President Bush: (I wouldn't really use the word hate, dcm )

                              1. He ran on a platform of "compassionate conservatism" and yet has been one of the most conservative presidents--and appointed Ashcroft, who is so conservative it terrifies me. I think he portrayed himself as a moderate in order to win the election, and once he became president, he was able to show his true colors.

                              2. He came from the cushiest governorship in the country straight to president. He readily admitted that he hated being briefed and reading briefings while governor. Seems to me, that someone that hates to read briefings is a pretty lousy choice for President. On the same note, he demonstrated a very poor grasp of the world and its leaders, and little desire to improve that. He doesn't read.

                              3. He's chill with executing children and the mentally retarded.

                              4. He doesn't care about the environment. He gives tax breaks to SUV owners and refuses to raise the emissions standards on SUVs to that of cars for fear of pissing people off. He wants to drill for oil in ANWR. Yet, in his state of the union address he starts talking about hydrogen cars (which are at least a decade away in my understanding) and everyone praises him. What about cars we can drive NOW to help the environment? Small cars with good gas mileage, hybrid cars?

                              5. He portrays this incredibly complex situation in terms of "good" and "evil"--an extreme simplification used to rile people up and make them agree without having to think too hard.

                              6. He's an alcoholic. He's been arrested for cocaine. (And I'm not trying to suggest that he's doing these things currently, or that recovered alcoholics don't deserve to be president--but I don't think that Bush was completely honest about his past). Point is, Clinton smoked pot and it was a big deal. Bush drives drunk and gets arrested for coke, and that's not ok to talk about. I don't get it. I'd much rather have a pot-smoking president than one who drives drunk.

                              7. His grasp on the workings of the economy is ridiculous. Tax cut tax cut tax cut! wheeeeeeee! Seriously, he proposes tax cuts that only apply to his wealthy buddies and frames them as though they're helping you. Most Americans wouldn't have had to pay an estate tax anyway, but Bush didn't tell them that.

                              8. And yeah, I think that if everything had gone correctly in Florida (if the Palm Beach retirees had been able to read their ballots, if thousands of Blacks weren't disenfranchised) that Bush would not have won. But that's not really dislike of him, that's just dislike of Florida .


                              Also, I was watching Extra, or some other silly entertainment show last night, when I saw a piece of a Toby Keith concert in which he lambasts the singer from the Dixie chicks. He says something mean about her, then up on the screen there's a huge photoshopped picture of Saddam with his arm around her. Crowd went nuts. I thought that was really uncalled for on his part.
                              Courtney
                              Courtney

                              my livejournal

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
                                First -
                                Why the almost violent hatred for George W Bush? And I mean before the Iraq invasion, not after.

                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Why do people hate Hillary Clinton?

                                I don't hate dubya. I don't like some of his ideas and I don't like his cockyness, but I don't hate him.

                                I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                                The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                                Comment


                                • History is so undervalued; its only purpose is seen to be as a reinforcer of blind patriotism, not for the sobering lessons it can teach us.

                                  Comment


                                  • Not quite

                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We PAY for the UN to exist <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    The U.S. has huge outstanding 'dues' which are still owing to the U.N. Don't recall the exact figure but it's significant.

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:

                                      JER – What “severe limits on our most basic rights” are you talking about?

                                      ********
                                      Proud to be an American!

                                      Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Libraries and booksellers are burning receipts so they won't have them when Ashcroft comes knocking, "We see that this person checked out 'communist manifesto', what other dangerous materials are they reading"

                                      The Patriot Act gives government unrestricted access, i.e. without warrant, to information about what people are reading. They also 'randomly' censor public library internet access; some libraries have posted signs that web surfing is monitered due to this law, in hopes their patrons will protest to the government.

                                      Comment


                                      • Don't hate him, but didn't and wouldn't vote for him for a variety of reasons. The biggest one of which is his SINGLEMINDED FOCUS ON GOING TO WAR WITH IRAQ WHILE GIVING DIPLOMACY ONLY THE BRIEFEST OF CHANCES AND ENDANGERING OUR STANDING WITH MOST OF THE REST OF THE WORLD WITH HIS WAR-MONGERING. MEANWHILE EITHER IGNORING OUR ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THIS COUNTRY OR THINKING "TAX CUT" WILL SOLVE IT.

                                        UGH!

                                        Laurie
                                        Laurie

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
                                          Why the almost violent hatred for George W Bush? And I mean before the Iraq invasion, not after.
                                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Because:

                                          - he has no experience besides governor of TX and I don't think he did a good job there
                                          - he is stupid (sorry, but he is not a smart man); I expect more from the PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. Do you think there's any chance in **** he would've been admitted to an Ivy League school w/o being who he is?
                                          - pulling out of the Tokyo agt. INCENSED me. That alone is enough reason to vote against him. He made the USA GO BACK ON IT'S WORD, ON A SIGNED TREATY. Reprehensible.
                                          - Unilaterally withdrawing from the ICBM treaty with Russia. Again, he does what HE pleases and to hell with signed treaties our country has agreed to. What on earth kind of credibility does the US have with treaties now? NONE, thanks to George Bush, Jr. That again, ALONE, is enough to make me dislike him.
                                          - I do NOT want my President to have had drunk driving problems. Today both my Pres. and Vice Pres. have this problem.
                                          - Bush was handed several businesses by Poppa. He sucked at running all of them. I expect MORE from my President.
                                          - I truly believe the war is a great distraction from the economic woes at home, however, 'noble' Bush feels his actions in Iraq are.
                                          - I believe the record shows Bush has no plan at all on how to ease/solve domestic problems. Frankly, I believe he doesn't care.
                                          - I am appalled at this Admin. willingness to snoop & spy on any citizen WITH NO REASON, all under the name of the so-called "Patriot Act." IOW, even if you've never given any one anywhere any reason to think you're a troublemaker, this Admin. wants to read your emails, tap your phone, look at your mail, and even ask stores what books you've bought and what movies you've rented. Again, reprehensible.
                                          - Halliburton.
                                          - Easing pollution restrictions.
                                          - Removing limits on how much arsenic can be in our water.

                                          I could go on for at least another page if you want more. But it is Garbage to say we don't like him because he's a conservative, or rich, or lost a close election and we got him anyway because of the electoral college. There are serious concerns with this man's abilities.

                                          Comment

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