• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
    Before the Gulf War, Iraq was an industrialized nation, witha burgeoning economy, a powerful military industial complex and a nuclear reactor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, almost a nuclear reactor. Thank you, Israel!

    ****
    Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
    *****
    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

    Comment


    • #82
      My two cents...

      I really do think it's a shame that we have to go to war. War is always a frightening prospect. But in this case, I don't see that we have any choice. We ARE at risk. No, Iraq isn't the only threat, but it is a big one. IMO, it's not so much the weapons of mass destruction that pose a risk, but the madman with his finger on the launch button. That's why Saddam Hussein MUST be removed. This isn't about a country's right to arm itself, it's about a leader who wouldn't think twice about using those weapons in an unprovoked manner against the US and other nations.

      Saddam Hussein has had 12 YEARS to disarm himself. He has had 12 YEARS to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors. He has had 12 YEARS to comply with UN resolutions. He has had 12 YEARS to think it all over and change his mind. IMO, that time period is beyond generous. Some say that George W. is just trying to finish what his father started, and they are absolutely right! This SHOULD have been finished 12 years ago. If it had been, perhaps 9/11 never would have happened, given Iraq's ties to terrorist organizations. No, Saddam is not Osama, but for all any of us know, they could be the best of buddies. And if they weren't before 9/11, they most certainly are now. That alone is a tremendous threat.

      I will be praying for our Armed Forces. I will be praying for our President (BTW, you don't have to agree with him to be able to pray for his wisdom). I will be praying that Saddam Hussein will have a change of heart. I will be praying for the safety of the entire world.

      But I agree that this is a moment of truth, for Iraq, America, and the whole world. It is a defining moment, one in which we must stand against the powers that threaten freedom. America is the defender of the world because we are the strongest. We have the most powerful military in existence, so we are obliged not just to protect our own nation, but also those who are incapable of protecting themselves...like the Iraqi and Afghani people.

      I think President Bush is justified in his actions. He has 12 years of justification. That the UN would choose to ignore that is its own shortcoming. When the dust settles and the horrors of the Iraqi regime are exposed for all the world to see, I'm sure the UN will realize how wrong they were...as will the rest of the naysayers. I think we will ALL be horrified and humbled when we realize just how close we were to more terrorism and destruction.

      9/11 was a wake up call for the world. We cannot allow terrorists and evil dictators to gain a foothold. Preventing them from doing so is NOT denying their basic freedoms of opinion, expression, religious beliefs, or way of life. It is denying them the ability to destroy the freedoms of others.

      Saddam Hussein has given us two options: Go to war now or live in fear indefinitely. I do believe we need to act now before it's too late. May God have mercy on their souls, and ours.

      ~Sara
      *Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron*
      *T-Minus 5 Weeks Until My Beval Devon Arrives!*

      Comment


      • #83
        Eomer,
        I am in no way suggesting that we go to war with France and Germany.

        I was giving some examples regarding how America lost the support of those nations as asked for in a prior post.

        We were outbid by Saddam.

        Comment


        • #84
          Your SUV's gas tank may be filling Saddam Hussein's coffers....

          US buys up Iraqi oil to stave off crisis

          Who's doing business with terrorist regimes? Oh, wait...that would be us!

          Trading With the Enemy

          A web search on "Iraq" and "illegal kickbacks to Saddam Hussein" also reveals some curious things about Dick Cheney's friends.

          Comment


          • #85
            I know you're not (suggesting war with France or Germany), dray. Rather than "World Affairs 101", we need to be educating ourselves in "Economics 101". This War, is just that a war of Econimics.

            I love my country, I cry when they raise the Flag and we sing the National Anthem. Today I'm crying because I don't feel we've done our job to do everything in our power to avoid this war and that Flag, I love, is leading a hasty charge against an poorly defined enemy.

            Never since this campaign began has Our President talked of anything but War as a solution, nothing more than lip service if at all. His singlemindedness in this quest is ... has been short sighted. Added to his families interest in the worlds oil business and I become very skeptical that all that could have been done has been done to find other means than war.

            I plan to live forever ...
            ... so far so good.
            \"The fool on the hill\"

            Comment


            • #86
              It's not about the oil

              With all due respect to my friends on the left who love the War for Oil conspiracy theory, in the short term we'd be in a better position as far as oil if we DIDN'T go to war.

              Don't know about yall, but last time I checked I was paying $1.78 a gallon for regular, and all of the truckers on the road who keep your stores filled with inventory are paying an average of $1.73 for diesel.

              The primary source for the U.S. is Saudi Arabia. We also get a lot from Venezuela (the recent political unrest there is one reason among many why we're paying out the nose now). We also produce some of our own.

              While Iraq has reserves second only to the Saudis, it's poor infrastructure hinders its production ability.

              The lead-up to a war has only led to jitters in the international markets, so in the short term oil prices are going up. Argument #1 why this isn't about oil.

              Argument #2: in the long term, the Russians, French and Chinese have been working with Saddam for a lot longer and are closer to negotiating oil contracts than the U.S. is.

              The Europeans have NO domestic oil reserves and are thus more dependent on imported oil, particularly from Iraq. Surprise, surprise, it's the French who particularly benefit from appeasing Saddam for his oil.

              The Bush family oil conspiracy theory of the left is so tired and has little merit other than personally attacking our Commander in Chief as we embark on a serious military campaign to rid an important region of the world of a dangerous and destabilizing regime.

              I am glad we are doing this now and not 10 years down the road. May God be with our troops.

              Comment


              • #87
                Eomer,

                I did not post SPAM. The testimony of former CIA director Woolsey is not SPAM. That would have been purgery. The other posts were UNEDITED...AKA NOT SOUND BYTE reports off the mainline of network TV or Ted Turner's mediocrity in reporting standards. If it isn't what you want to hear, does that make it SPAM?

                The news media never swore to "tell the truth, the whole truth, so help me God" and that's the very reason I offer up the other side of the coin. I was educated in tyeh dark ages as an RTVMP, Journalism, English and triple major (3 and one half year plan so no, I wasn't a lollygagger) from a very liberal university in the South; raised by a conservative Republican father and a Mother who prayed for peace and the supper table, so I have heard lots of sides of the coin. America's current decisions are not zipper jerk reactions to being caught in the office with an assistant (and what he did to her was deplorable and I hope her life goes well. she was abused by a man in power.) My point here is that I have been blessed by perspective and blessed with the freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is not a birthrigfht. We have to keep defending it.

                And who was it earlier ragging on Bush's lack of international expertise? Clinton did smoke pot in England, so I guess that makes him an expert. He didn't have the courage to inhale or the courage to tell the truth about the incident. I could never tell when he was telling the truth because truth was a lsiding scale in his eyes deefined as he played word games. International aplumb...
                I seem to remember a missle incident associated with Clinton and his zipper...and Clinton letting Osama Bin Laden be released when captured...gee...how could that have affected history?

                War cannot be impersonal and it cannot be painted a pretty color. I used to make sales calls in the WTC. I have a friend whose husband was supposed to be there for breakfast that morning. I'm glad neither of us was there that day and feel sad for those who lost lives and loved ones and for New Yorkers who's skyline is forever changed. America lives in fear of such close calls, for now.

                Even some of Saddam's armys are preparing to surrender as I type. It's a rainy day now and this is certianly interesting.

                Comment


                • #88
                  The problem with that FG is i'm not on the left, I am a warrior. AND, still, I don't trust Our Commander in Chiefs Motives, and I'll always believe there were alternatives.

                  And dray, if you believe everything ... ok anything ... that comes out publicly from the CIA ... what can I say ... I wouldn't believe the CIA if they told me (publicly) it was daylight without going out side to check.

                  God bless us all ... everyone ... on earth.

                  I plan to live forever ...
                  ... so far so good.
                  \"The fool on the hill\"

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    I send my best wishes and hopes for our soldiers (and their civillian support) in Iraq.

                    As for Bush's "military service": not only did he get a coveted spot in the National Guard, he was also AWOL for most of his "service" there.

                    I will continue to argue and disagree with my civillian government for making what I believe is a terrible decision. Our great military should not be asked to kill or to be killed for anything but the most noble of causes, and I believe a better President could have solved this problem with international UN-supported resolve that would not put so many troops, nor so many civillians, at risk. As an American citizen it is my job to oversee the government and ensure it makes the best possible decisions.

                    Meanwhile, I wonder where exactly my state, my county, and my city are going to find the money to protect us against the elevated risk of terrorism.
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      DMK! About time!

                      This conflict is all about bad choices, on all sides. "Can of worms" does not even come close to describing it...

                      Extreme views in either direction (those knee jerks I referred to in a prior post) are generally NOT GOOD if the object is to avoid "politics by other means." On the other hand, dragging out attempts at alternative methods of achieving policy goals is generally NOT good either.

                      It takes skill, luck, and finesse to excell at diplomacy. Sometimes 2 out of 3 is enough, sometimes even 1 out of 3. I'll just stop this line of thought here...

                      MCL
                      'r' H/J/HEq
                      Inner Bay Equestrian
                      Facebook
                      KERx

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> When you slam this administration and the deicsions that have been forced to make, you slam our military men and women. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Dray, that's where you and I disagree. When I exercise my right to speak my piece, I honor the causes and beliefs which our military fights for: free speech, free press, freedom to assemble peaceably, and the freedom to petition the government for redress of grievances. These rights are not, and should not be, eliminated because we are fast approaching war. Rather, we must cherish and exercise our freedoms, because our sons, daughters, fathers, and friends have died and will die to protect those ideals. To espouse a theory that we must only support this administration because to do otherwise is to "slam" our troops, is perilously close to the removal of those rights. I don't agree with many of the decisions that this administration has made, independent of what any other administration may have done. That does not mean I do not support our troops, even as I wish that they were not being ordered to do what I fear is to take place.

                        I am touched that so many of you (who I have quietly grown to respect and admire through reading your posts on other topics) are approaching this topic with thoughtfulness, consideration, and sensitivity.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          thank you gotspots---it is true that one can be patriotic and still oppose what our country is doing.

                          I grew up in a millitary family, and didn't have my father around while I was growing up because of it. Questioning the motives of the President and not following blindly is as much patriotic as the flag waving the war supporters are giving. I want to ask questions.."why him? Why now", "wht's the hurry"....this does not make me less of an American to ask these questions. I don't want to see our service men and women killed for some stupid path that Bush wants to take us on.

                          Dray, good for you for putting up your little "lessons"...I will still not buy that Saddam is Osama. The terorists are not Iraq, and this preemptive strike is now going to open up a Pandora's box. Why not take out China? Look at the genocide in Africa, and in the balkans. Where do we stop and whose regime to we decide to topple next just because we think they may be a threat?

                          Elippses Users Clique........
                          Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group
                          Ellipses users clique ...
                          TGFPT,HYOOTGP

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            I also have friends is Kuwait and pray for them and all the troops daily! Lets not forget to pray for President Bush also, that God may help him lead our great country through this battle as safely as possible for every one world wide!!

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Eomer,

                              I just saw your last post and I so agree with you. a lot of this is driven by economics. We are struggling. Our (my husband and I both are in this field) industry first suffered the dot.com fiasco and I blame that on Silicon Valley and the good ole' boys pulling the wool over the eyes of America. Shame on trusitng America for that one. But bigger than that is the falsely inflated economic growth in the 90s that now has experienced an insurrecton like a house of cards (thank you Billary). Now, after 911, nobody is spending money. Economics driven by fear.

                              I understand your fears and feel them. Our farm is on a flight line down I-35 where the choppers are flying at all hours. Our President has spoken of justice and has sought it. Saddam was supposed to have disarmed 12 years ago. He didn't. That post regarding Woolsey's testimony is chilling. I would not put is past Saddam to sit in a poker game and rahter than betting in chips, betting in what dastardly terroist acthe can pull on America. He hates us.

                              Even in the horse industry, we aren't as favored by the industry over there because of hte flip between the dollar value and the Euro.

                              The Eurodollar was a big mistake and that will harm America as well.

                              The good news is that we do live in America and you and I can have different opinions and common fears and not feel hate or animosity toward one another. We can both pray for wisdom to be granted to our leaders and a change of heart in our enemies.

                              Now I'll get blasted for the prayer thing.

                              Carson Farm

                              I guess I can be guaranteed that the BB will calm down when I start foal watch and have all those nights of nothing to think about. That would be a good thing.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                MO'C - this stuff just gets trickier and trickier, doesn't it? I get a headache just trying to sort through the Neo-Reaganites versus the Bush 41 members of Bush 43's staff/cabinet...

                                Here is a link to an interesting chat between the producer of last night's Frontline, which was a consolidation of twelve years of investigative journalism on the subject of Saddam, Iraq and US Foreign Policy. If one didn't watch it, one would be well advised to watch it if/when it re-airs.

                                Washington Post discussion

                                "Speak yer mind. But ride a fast horse"
                                Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  "When you slam this administration and the deicsions that have been forced to make, you slam our military men and women. They need bolstering."

                                  Not. The freedoms that we have make it not only permissible, but sometimes necessary, for us to question our government. Just because they were elected doesn't make them right. And it has NOTHING to do with the support of our troops. And the sickos that keep trying to make that "un-American" association ought to be whipped.

                                  "'Why him? Why now?'"

                                  I've wondered the same thing since this whole thing began...

                                  "His links to Al Queda are well documented "

                                  So well documented that Powell couldn't convince the Security Council of this fact?

                                  For the record, I'm not sure if this is the right or wrong way to go. I have strong feelings on both sides.

                                  But my thinking always comes back to:

                                  What makes him (Bush) right and the rest of the world (nearly) wrong?

                                  Laurie
                                  Laurie

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    So, we come full circle dray, back to prayer (let them blast away - I beleive in God). "Please Pray For Our Soldiers", amen. AND, Please Pray that this world can find a way to live in Peace, finally, once and for ALL.

                                    I plan to live forever ...
                                    ... so far so good.
                                    \"The fool on the hill\"

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Flashy gray,

                                      About the oil thing...do you have any idea how many wells went out of production in West Texas because of Carter and Clinton? We oculd survuve. We could also reinact Tax credits for renewable energy sources. That's one issue that George Sr and I clashed on. I owned a business that installed solar energy systems for hot water that supplemented heating and they worked great. We could survuve oin our own. It's almost a crime that we import. (*eomer...breath, don't go into shock on me here! I know this seems out of character for me... )

                                      Europe pays a lot for gas already. We might have to go that road for a while. I don't like it, but everything comes at a price.

                                      I don't like my oats coming from Scandanavia with farmers going broke in America, but it happened when I bought oats in bags. I made a stand and bought barrells and buyfrom the feed mill now.

                                      If our insurance costs were not so inflated, a lot of us Texans would own a second run about car and not drive our trucks at all for non horse-related trips.

                                      Carson Farm

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #99
                                        I keep going back to the press conference the President held last week, during which one reporter asked this question: "Mr. President, thirty years ago we embarked on a mission to Viet Nam, in an effort to rid the world of a regime that we felt was a threat to us. Over 50,000 soldiers were killed, and today that regime is still in power and has never launched the massive attack on us that we so feared. How can you reassure the Americans who fought in Viet Nam and their children who will fight in this war that we are not sending them into the same situation?"

                                        While I don't think the war in Iraq is going to be the same as Viet Nam, the basic principle is still there: why are we instigating a war with a regime out of fear for what *might* happen? It's like the Red Scare and McCarthy Investigations- we take drastic measures against what we feel to be a drastic threat to ourselves. In this case, I agree that Saddam needs to disarm. I agree that the International Community must do something about the situation in the Middle East. But, I think a call to war is an overreaction out of fear....and isn't fear what they want us to feel in the first place?

                                        I completely believe in the strength of democracy and in indivudual freedom for all people. But, if this is about bring freedom to an oppressed Iraqui people, why aren't we paying those Nike workers in sweatshops more than pennies per hour? Why aren't we building up the economies of the banana republics our own economy so depends upon? I cannot help but see this war as being about something more than freeing the oppressed Iraui people or protecting the strongest nation in the world from a threat that we have believed to be in existence for over 12 years, yet never have seen manifested.

                                        Let's face it: we knew Saddam had chemical and biological weapons as early as 1983 when we fought with the Iraquis against Kuwait in an effort to preserve the oil pipline we were supporting. We have known this for 20 years...and in the past 20 years, there has not been a single chemical/biological attack on US soil by Saddam. So, I ask again- why now?

                                        I proudly support my boyfriend and friends who have chosen to give their lives to serve their country. I know that many of them, however, share my sentiments when they say that they are not comfortable going to Iraq to fight what they believe to be an unjust war. It's not being un-patriotic to say you don't agree with the actions being taken by the current administration. After all, if there truly was one infallable, perfect person for the job, we wouldn't elect a new President every 4 years, nor would we limit the number of terms each may serve. That's what democracy is all about- the right to dissent, to disagree, and to take action to have your voice heard. In doing so, I am being as patriotic as anyone else....I'm using the rights fought for by our forefathers.

                                        _______________________________
                                        *"The English country gentleman galloping after a fox - The unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable." - Oscar Wilde
                                        ______________________________

                                        *Formerly known as Seabiscuit*

                                        Comment


                                        • I am praying for the safe and quick return of all soldiers fighting to rid the world of the likes of Saddam and al-Queda. May God protect them all. I do not want war. No one really does. But I will support our troups, and I will do what I can to assist the families of our National Guard who will honorably serve our country leaving their families and their jobs behind.

                                          Thank you M O'Connor for reproducing the speech and the articles. Thank you Dray for supplying documentation of Saddam's attrocities. Many good arguments have been posted here, and we are blessed for the ability to give arguments both in favor of and not in favor of our government. Many nations do not have that freedom - they loose their lives, or simply loose their ears, or their wives and children are videotaped being raped and mutilated by government officials.

                                          That said, I will now say that I stand firmly behind our President right or wrong. I do believe all diplomatic sources have been exhausted. I do wish this could have been resolved by peaceful means, but when you deal with madmen.......

                                          There are a couple of things I just do not understand.

                                          First, is those who believe that this is about oil. What the heck is that? Do you say that because Bush is from an oil family in Texas? Rediculous. What this is about is an end to a war waged 12 years ago when instead of removing Saddam as we should have, we bowed to diplomatic pressure for UN resolutions and treaties. Saddam has no respect for the nations of the world, much less the UN. He has failed to disarm, he as waged war against his own people and his neighbors, he has built and used chemical weapons, and he has lied and lied again. Does not the fact that he has produced token illegal weapons for public distruction prove this? For every weapon he 'produces' publicly, there are hundreds more where it came from. And yes, Saddam provides support to terrorists like the al-Queda. Just because you do not see Saddam directing the actions of the terrorists does not mean he is not their supporter. There are many ways he and others support terrorism. If Saddam is so innocent, why do his neighboring countries (also oil producing nations) support our actions?

                                          The second thing I just cannot understand is those "Americans" who vilify the very things that make America what she is. Those who would make us ashamed to be what we are. And what we are is free. What America is, is the most powerful country in the history of mankind. There are responsibilities that go with that power. We are not like a modern "Hitler" trying to take over the middle east and make it a part of our empire. If that was so, why are we where we are? Why did we not take over Iraq 12 years ago? Nor Bush does not support or practice genocide. It is ludicrous to think like this. Who is it that financially supports the very existance of the UN? Who is it they call for help anywhere in the world? And who is it that steps up to the plate every single time?

                                          I suppose we should sit and wait for another terrorist attack here on our shores. Saddam has no respect for human lives. Have you heard what has happened to the 'human shields'? He kicked them out of his country because they refused to shield his military and potential military targets. And yes, Saddam is a threat to American civilians like my children here in Michigan, like my parents and sisters in Texas, like my father-in-law in Arizona, and like all Americans anywhere in the world. We Americans have been the target of the hatred of extremists and terrorists simply because we exist.

                                          What is France's main purpose in opposing the US here? I think we know the real reason has nothing to do with right or wrong, but more to do with the reasons many including France seem to accuse President Bush.

                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Why do you think the other countries aren't supporting Bush???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Miscounted again, I think. Are the Dade and Palm Beach county election officials at work in the UN? The count actually has more in favor than not. But simple majority will not pass a resolution.

                                          Okay, off my box and back to my prayers.....

                                          ********
                                          Don't ask me, I'm just the mom!

                                          ~Proud member of the Thoroughbred Clique~|~Is there a Danish Warmblood clique?~

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X