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President Bush Issues 48 Hr. Ultimatum....Please Pray For Our Soldiers

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  • Off on a tangent, but did anyone else see that they are using trained dolphins to detect mines in the Umm Qasr harbor? The dolphins not only detect and mark the mines, but attach tow hooks to them so they can be towed out of the way.

    Laurie
    Laurie

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Geography, yes, lol. People can only go by their own experiences. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      One would think that most people in America would be able to point out where Iraq or Afghanistan is on a map, since that's in our collective cultural experience.

      But they can't. I don't think that's something to really laugh about. It's just plain PATHETIC.

      Re: the Greeks & Romans. Yes, the Greeks 'invented' the concept of democracy. They certainly didn't practice it, nor did the US in the early days. The Greeks CERTAINLY didn't believe that everyone (even every MAN) should be able to have a hand in decision making/voting/etc. It's an old concept, but it took much, much longer for it to be applied in the 'true' sense of the word - ie, every citizen has the right to vote/choose their officials/etc.

      -Albion

      'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

      Comment


      • Depending on your perspective this is either good news or bad news

        BUT I am thrilled the people of Basra have had enough of Saddam Hussein according to the BBC and are now shooting the Republican Guard or whatever gorillas he has sent to their town, and assisting the Brits.

        Battle Scarred Veteran
        http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by valentine1:
          I still think that the Bush, Rumsfeld, Powell, and other families should be contributing some children, along with my sons and nephews and nieces to this conflict.
          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          The thing is, in this country, you don't GIVE your children to the military. They CHOOSE that life for THEMSELVES.
          If those kids don't WANT to join the military, well, that's their choice. They are not their parents, and their parents are not them. Just like your nieces and nephews and sons had the choice to join, so do those neices, nephews, sons, and daughters of top ranking officials. If they don't choose to, which they obviously haven't, that's their perogative. I don't think that bringing them into the realm of things is really fair.

          So since all of those top ranking officials need to be contributing some children to the armed forces, I'm sure that you won't mind if people start automatically assuming that you and everyone else in the country should 'contribute' their children automatically. But then that goes against everything that those in the military are there for- the rights that they have.

          Sorry if this seems a bit obnoxious.. I'm just tired of hearing that the children of these people- who have absolutely nothing to do with anything other then being citizens- keep getting dragged in as though THEY are cattle to be 'contributed'.

          ________
          Sarah

          "Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one's horse as he is leaping."~ Julius Hare
          ________
          Sarah
          formerly known as Alohamora
          \"Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one\'s horse as he is leaping.\"~ Julius Hare

          Comment


          • bgoosewood;

            I am not an expert in history by any means, but I believe that Athens lost its independence to the Macedonians about 200 years before it fell to Rome (which was a democracy at the time). After the despotism of Rome and the decline of the Roman empire, the democratic ideal continued in pockets in Europe (in the free cities of Germany, Italy and Flanders) throughout the Middle Ages. With the rise of Judeo-Christian beliefs and the notion of equality of all in the eyes of God, democracy developed furhter, especially through the Renaissance. Which then lead to US's Declaration of Independence and the French Rights of Man Declaration. There is a fairly clear trail of democracy throughout Western history.

            Islam may have a larger basis of support through out history because some powerful Islamic cultures had a tradition of conquering, suppressing and converting other cultures. But it is not a half truth to say that democracy is older than Islam, even if it was practiced by a smaller population.
            See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

            Comment


            • Rome was a REPUBLIC, up until the time when the emporers took over.

              I don't think any classicist would tell you that Rome was a democracy. It wasn't. At least not in OUR sense of the word, which is what we're talking about.

              That's not to say upward mobility wasn't possible, but it wasn't the norm. Generally, if you weren't lucky enough to be (a) a man and (b) born into a patrician family, you wouldn't be doing jack as far as actual decision making processes. You were just rabble.

              -Albion

              'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

              Comment


              • Can any of you just consider that maybe, just maybe GWB's actions are honorable? Is that so hard to believe? Does there have to be ulterior motives associated with money? Has the lack of integrity in the oval office from 8 years of the previous president made you that cynical?

                Or maybe you are confusing GWB with that other oil man, JR Ewing? Not that I know anything, but I do remember the Houston Chronicle labeled Oscar Wyatt a true life JR Ewing, not any member of the Bush family - and they got sued for it, too.

                I agree that GWB is not the brightest light on the Ivy League chandelier, (and how many of you can claim to even be a light on that chandelier?) but he is a master at assembling a skilled team to do the necessary job. That is what I voted for when I voted for GWB in the last election. Our government may have bungled at diplomacy, but they were not the first ones to do that in the Iraq issue. And no matter what we did, the French and German contingent were determined to stand up to the US and support that idiot in Iraq - for their own monetary gain, and not for the greater good of the world.

                And do you honestly think that the US is the only ones to sell Iraq weapons in the last 30 years? Who is it that has been selling them their current weapons? Certainly not us. Maybe it is one or more of those countries who continue to ignore the real problem. Like Russia? Or maybe France? Or maybe even Germany? Hmmm. Go figure.

                ********
                Proud to be an American!

                Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!

                Comment


                • Tell the rabble to be quiet, we anticipate a riot...

                  ****
                  Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
                  *****
                  You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                  Comment


                  • The thing is "we" (The United States of America) are a Republic too. A lot is made about "land owning white men" being the only voters. A large part of the reason for that is they were the ONLY tax payers ... originally. Their reasoning for that was to avoid the situation we have today were a large, non-taxed, part of the population has an influence in how our "REPRESENTITIVES" consider financial matters. We have moved more toward a "Socilist-Democracy", but that's not the way the Constitution was written.

                    "The fool on the hill"
                    \"The fool on the hill\"

                    Comment


                    • Go dcm!!!!

                      Eomer, will to cease referring to our President as "jr" already???

                      Thank you, Anne FS.

                      "I can justify anything!"
                      \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                      Comment


                      • Go Ana Palacio, Spanish Foreign Minister!

                        "I can justify anything!"
                        \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Can any of you just consider that maybe, just maybe GWB's actions are honorable? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          There is nothing honorable about this war. There is nothing honorable about invading Iraq. There is nothing honorable about the mounting casualties and violence on all sides.

                          I guess the answer is 'no'.

                          Comment


                          • What was not honourable was waiting 12 years to go in to liberate the suffering Iraqi people when they hoped and prayed that we would do it so long ago. They have been the ones who have suffered for an additional 12 years.

                            "I can justify anything!"
                            \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                            Comment


                            • I am a few pages out of step with this discussion, but wanted to circle back to some of the arguments. I had been searching for this reference and finally found it. What frightens me is that in the claims that the protesters are anti-American, I hear the echo of the following:

                              "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

                              Who said that? Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials in 1946. The tactics aren't new to this conflict or even to the Vietnam era. This is what frightens me, that the majority becomes malleable and gullible. Bread and circuses and so forth are soon to follow.

                              Comment


                              • Duffy, I changed that to Mr. President. That is the official honorarium for addressing a President, and all he would get from me if we were to meet and shake hands. But you're right the office, if not the man, deserves that respect. I stand corrected and appologize. You don't really believe I'm the first American to be unsatisfied with a sitting President, do you. Frankly, I wish him the very best. There is a coming up hour of meditation for him to find his "greater good" (to keep it secular, I guess). I plan on taking part in that. I'm for everything the Constitution provides for, including the orderly exchange of power from one administration to another. That day cannot come to soon for me.

                                dcm, I could disagree with every point you made about our current Mr. President. (Except the first sentence of the third paragraph.) And back it up, but it serves no purpose here. Not that I intend to be talked down because I am strictly against war in general and this war very much in particular.

                                ALSO

                                Proud to be an American!

                                Proud supporter of our Armed Forces all over the world!

                                Non-violently

                                "The fool on the hill"

                                [This message was edited by Eomer on Mar. 25, 2003 at 06:04 PM.]
                                \"The fool on the hill\"

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What was not honourable was waiting 12 years to go in to liberate the suffering Iraqi people when they hoped and prayed that we would do it so long ago. They have been the ones who have suffered for an additional 12 years.
                                  <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  The US was not exactly 'waiting' for 12 years. The US continued to bomb Iraq during this time. And that decade of bombing surely contributed to the suffering of the Iraqi people. I'm sure plenty of Iraqis 'hoped and prayed' for the bombing to stop, too.

                                  Comment


                                  • Will these pacifists, who are pro-U.S. Troops, organize tickertape parades and wave American flags for our returning soldiers when this war is over? Or, will they not, thinking that they might be perceived as "pro-war" if they cheer for our soldiers.

                                    On the other side, people who believe in the necessity and need for this war should not be viewed as "pro-war".

                                    But, there is no need for protesters/pacifists to bad-mouth our leaders for the world to see.

                                    "I can justify anything!"
                                    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                                    Comment


                                    • If you're addressing me Duffy, you missed your target. I'm a warrior, nobody that knows me would ever tell you differently. I have CHOSEN to fight no more forever.

                                      And yes by God, I will be there to welcome our troops home. You see, I don't give a small $#!+ what people think of me. When I'm dead I want to be remembered as loveing to my family good to my horse's and true to my friends ... that's all.

                                      AND btw, better men and women, that you and I, have died just so

                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> protesters/pacifists (can-by-god-to) bad-mouth our leaders for the world to see.
                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                      If that's how they call it in their heart.

                                      "The fool on the hill"
                                      \"The fool on the hill\"

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I still think that the Bush, Rumsfeld, Powell, and other families should be contributing some children, along with my sons and nephews and nieces to this conflict. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        I'm sorry, but I think that the fact that Bush, Rumsfeld, and Powell put their lives on the line every day, regardless of whether we are at war or not, is enough contribution on their part. Not only do they have to worry about Iraqi and other foreign terrorists who would love to have a shot at assasinating them, they also have to worry about disatisfied crazies here in the U.S taking a swipe at them as well. Why would they need to send their children when they are already doing the job themselves?

                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        A dog has one master, a cat has an entire staff.
                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?

                                        Comment


                                        • Whatever, Eomer. I know we will never agree, except for our love and respect for the military, and for that I will have to be content.

                                          I have not gone through what you have in your lifetime. But, neither have you gone through what I have. We will both have to accept that we are coming from totally different directions. I do not discount your views and opinions and wish you to afford me the same courtesy. I may not understand them, but I know that you believe in them fervently, as I do mine.

                                          I know that you join me in praying for our troops, and for all involved.

                                          "I can justify anything!"
                                          \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

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