They won't hold you indefinitely because they say they have "just cause," without explaining the reason (well, all the 9/11 stuff excepted). Unlike in Britain, which because of this has a terrible human rights record. Because people there have been held for over a decade, without being charged. Amnesty Intl has their knickers in a fine and well-deserved twist about this one (and, of course, I do have a lefty friend who works for Amnesty).
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I just wanna ad that should I ever feel compelled to sing the National Anthem at a baseball game, you may all exercise your 1st Ammendment right to tell me to shut the hell up, because I can't carry a tune to save my life.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
1. Allah and the Christian God are the same God since all are descended from Abraham and the village of Abraham is UR in what is now Iraq.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Edited because I'm an idiot who for some reason confused Mohammed with Allah and didn't realize it until this morning. Forgive me, Snowbird.
[This message was edited by Portia on Apr. 16, 2003 at 10:33 AM.]"I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave BarryComment
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Coreene, my niece used to give more than she had to Amnesty International. Now she's a proud member of the Army Corps of Engineers. (Not that that position disallows her from donating every cent she makes to said cause, but mehopes now that she and her hubby are very recently first house owners that some of what they earn shall go into, say, removing gas tank from beneath the property...
)
"I can justify anything!"\"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo EComment
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Sorry Portia, but Mohammed was the prophet of Islam. Snowbird is correct, Allah is God.See those flying monkeys? They work for me.
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I told myself and TOLD myself that I wouldn't even open this thread. But here I am anyway.
I support the coalition troops (even have family there) but not the policies that took them there. They are doing the job they were trained to do and are, at the most basic level, "following orders." I extend the same consideration to the Iraqi troops, many thousands of whom have died for a cause they had no other choice than to support.
I also firmly believe that we will be looking over our shoulders because of our policies for many, many years ... crikey, parts of the world still hold the Crusades against Christianity.
Which brings me to the one idea/concept that's come up in the last few pages that had me leaping for my keyboard (which I'm sure so pleases you all
): the idea that there's this moral imperative to enlighten the heathens to Christianity.
Much as there is that I admire about Christianity, and much as sometimes I've really wanted to live up to the teachings of my church-founding sainted grandmother, the major thing that keeps me from it (at least in the fundamentalist born again sense) and the one thing I've never been able to accept about it is the dogmatic belief that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and all other religions throughout history are wrong.
If you accept that fundamentalist teaching, then every person who follows any other religion, no matter how good, how kind, how generous, how devout, how prayerful he or she is, that person is going to Hell because they pray to God other than through the one named Jesus. That's everybody for the last 2,000-plus years, even though until the last 100 years there hasn't been any way on God's Green Earth that 75% of the people in the world could even have been exposed to the name Jesus because of distance and lack of technology.
I mean, really, would God be that short-sighted? Would he be that vicious and unfair? Would He have condemned to Hell every Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, whatever for the last 2,000 years who wasn't a born again Christian? "Sorry, Mr. Utterly Devout Buddhist who has lived your life according to the beliefs you were taught and has tried to be the very best person you can be and has devoted yourself to helping others, even though there was no way you could have ever heard about Jesus since it's only 1257 and no one even knows your country exists so you've never been exposed to Western culture in any way, Jesus is the only way in to Heaven, and you didn't pray to Me through Him, so you're screwed."
That's the part I just can't get past. My evangelical grandmother couldn't get me past it, my Sunday School classes couldn't get me past it, Billy Graham and this president ain't gonna get me past it. "My" God has better sense than to condemn people for the way they pray.
***Dear Easter Bunny: All I really want in my goody basket is FLYING LEAD CHANGES!!***
Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!
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Go Eomer! That was another good one. So much good has come of our space research, including the computers we are on right now!
Watch out! Coreene's on a roll! You go girl!
See, we can go back to our usual selves tomorrow. Just spend a little time contemplating on the positive. This thread was getting way too negative.
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I'm just the mom.
Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen CliqueComment
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Duffy, good for you re: education. That's the attitude my mother always took with me ... I had so-so grades in HS, but aced my APs and SATs. I think I was better prepared for college than many of the "better" students at my school who were excellent at regurgitating whatever the teacher said.
That attitude will serve them well throughout their academic careers, I'm sure.
-Albion
'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - OvidComment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coreene:
I just wanna ad that should I ever feel compelled to sing the National Anthem at a baseball game, you may all exercise your 1st Ammendment right to tell me to shut the hell up, because I can't carry a tune to save my life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<snort>
Ditto here, but smack me upside the head for good measure.
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I'm just the mom.
Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen CliqueComment
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Well peeps, as much as I'd love to hang some more, a rerun of Law & Order beckons in mere minutes and I have not had my fix in a few days. Which, for me, is a few days too long.
PS to dcm: laugh about the singing, but alas it is true. I learned to sing from my mother, who cannot carry a tune either. She was a kindergarten teacher in Holland - the headmaster said "What's wrong with your kids? They are all tone-deaf!" And she said "I TOLD you not to have me teach them to sing!"Comment
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Albion, I'll be happy if they just survive their academic careers!! 
"I can justify anything!"\"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo EComment
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A positive thing about America: Our higher educational system is second to none and countries all over the world know that. In the year I got my Ph.D. just under 9,000 others obtained theirs. Of those 9,000, only 1,000 degrees went to American citizens. That says something when countries all over the world send their best and brightest to be educated here.
The technology developed in American universities and commercialized by industry are prevalent all over the world. Evidence Moose's post that allowed an Iraqi to "participate" here. The internet was develped to allow universities and government to collaborate/communicate but now allows us to talk to each other and others around the world. This would never have been possible without heavy investment in fundamental research by the federal government for the past 80 years.
The citizens of the US have invested millions of hours in charitable efforts all around the world in innumerable causes.
ReedComment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Duffy:
Go, Eomer!
Totally agree. (Bet you didn't think you'd see that out of my computer anytime soon, did you... )
"I can justify _anything_!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Duffy, I've made it clear I love my country. I'm 100% against anything about this war, front to back, side to side, top to bottom. It's need and "stated" purpose is highly questionable in my mind. But, I am 110% behind the young women and men that are over there. God Bless THEM all.
You can talk to Eomer any damn way you please but not my "era". For some of your remarks today I'm inclined to tell you to go straight to hell. But as one American to another, as another living being, as member of the military ... I'll toast our troops safe return and bury any animosity between us.
"The fool on the hill"\"The fool on the hill\"Comment
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Eomer, you just can't leave well enough alone, can you. I was not speaking to "your" generation. You chose to twist my words. I was speaking to a period of time during which our military was based on a draft versus its current volunteer basis. It HAS changed. Some have witnessed and been a part of this change. Some believe those who HAVE seen this change. There were obviously exceptional soldiers back then as well. But, the overall morale, professionalism, etc. was not in the same ballpark as our military today. Too many of the soldiers during the Vietnam era did not want to be a part of the military, let alone in Vietnam, not that I could blame them, (part of which I believe was the condemnation they felt from their fellow Americans). I'm sure not all 100% of today's soldiers in Iraq wish to be there. But, they understood that when they signed up, VOLUNTARILY, they might be called upon to fight a war. They are trained professionals and that is their job. No one forced that job upon them. They didn't have to flee to Canada to avoid being drafted. Thank goodness FOR them and may God bless them.
Ok - you edited your post while I was typing mine - no fair! Some of your comments today, not only to me, were enough for me to wish you elsewhere too. But, I am NOT one for conflict, so I'm more than agreeable to burying the hatchet, so to speak, as well.
"I can justify anything!"\"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo EComment
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[/QUOTE]
Just a small correction, Snowbird but my Muslim friend with whom I discuss Islam would never forgive me if I didn't make it. Allah is the name of the prophet, not the name of the God that Muslims worship. Allah emphasized that he was not a god in any sense of the word, but was a mortal man, and that he should not be worshipped.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I have to correct you in turn. MUHAMMED is the prophet, Allah is indeed the Arabic name of God. The basic declaration of Islamic faith is "There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is the prophet of Allah". I know this because some guy in the Arab neighborhood about a mile away warbles it from the top of the mosque 5 times a day, including a rendition at 4:00 am. At first I found this a severe test of my basic religious tolerance, but now I sleep through it.
---s.Under carefully controlled conditions of breeding, training, and care, a horse will do whatever it damn well pleases.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Duffy:
Eomer, you just can't leave well enough alone, can you. I was not speaking to "your" generation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It sure sounded that way to me.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You chose to twist my words.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, I just took you at your word.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I was speaking to a period of time during which our military was based on a draft versus its current volunteer basis. ... There were obviously exceptional soldiers back then as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You better believe it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It HAS changed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it hasn't, when the $#!+'s on, you've got a bunch of scared kids fighting for their life. That never changes.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, the overall morale, professionalism, etc. was not in the same ballpark as our military today.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, well, we had Jane Fonda to cheer us up.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Too many of the soldiers during the Vietnam era did not want to be a part of the military, let alone in Vietnam, ... I'm sure not all 100% of today's soldiers in Iraq wish to be there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, they understood that when they signed up, VOLUNTARILY, they might be called upon to fight a war. They are trained professionals and that is their job. No one forced that job upon them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When you're in a fire fight it doesn't occur to you how you got there.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Some of your comments today, not only to me, were enough for me to wish you elsewhere too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't start feeling unique.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But, I am NOT one for conflict,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you say so.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>so I'm more than agreeable to burying the hatchet, so to speak, as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Where, is what worries me ... JUST KIDDING!
Honey there is nothing glorious about war, anyone that says there is. is a damn liar. The truth of that is never more poignent than when we cover box's with our flag and start playing taps. There was a picture of an officer crying for his son at Arlington in the news the other day. I'm sure he'll whole heartedly agree ... now ... if he ever had any doubt.
Debating what era had the best soldiers is a fools errand. How to eliminate the need for them and live as a Brotherhood of man instead of a Brotherhood in Arms is the answer we need.
"The fool on the hill"\"The fool on the hill\"Comment
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All hail Beezer!
I must print that post and show it to my raging Christianityistheonlyway mother. Perhaps she can ready what she refuses to hear.
SusieRoyal Oak Sporthorses
Dutch Warmbloods & British Sporthorses.Comment
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Well, now it is morning and I usually have a tendency to let bygones be bygones. However, three individuals said things I was not prepared to answer because they were so derogatory towards my person.
First:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eomer:
More than "just a Mom", and Don't _ever_ red face me again if you expect a reply. BTW, I didn't say Mr. President commited treason. I said. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>IF we went to war for oil then a good case for treason could be brought against Mr. President<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
"The fool on the hill"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eyore, first, your dismissal of my being a mom was so insulting to me yesterday. That is the most important thing in my life. I sure hope you give your mother better respect. Second, your continued claim that the war is about oil + your comment that if it is oil then GWB could be tried for treason = you believe GWB should be tried for treason. Simple math on my part and it made me angry, therefore the which means 'mad'. Nothing to do with your great age, whatever it is.
Second:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
I think you forgot your "nanny nanny boo boo" on that one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
bgoosewood, my comment was pointing out the freedom of speech you guys keep throwing around. Please don't belittle me for exercising the same rights.
Third:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
dcm, were you even around for the Vietnam war?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
lauriep, I lost 3 cousins to Vietnam, 2 KIA and 1 to drug addiction who overdosed in 1982. Of the 2 KIA, one I was close to. He carried me on his shoulders many times in the summers at my Granny's house. He was 20 when he died. I also wore a POW/MIA bracelet for a young man who eventually (and thankfully) returned home alive.
Some of you think nothing of insulting and denigrating those who do not share your opinions. How is it that when one does not agree with you that this happens? What about freedom of speech? Your continued hypocracy and denigration towards others when they disagree is getting tiresome.
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I'm just the mom.
Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen CliqueComment
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Celtic Witch...in the same way you've probably refused to hear her? Just commenting that it seems to go both ways.
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Whoops....double post.Comment
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