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Oh dear lord, just bear with me...

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    OP, Here I found a video that I think demonstrates a few things. It's almost 9 minutes long, but you should watch the whole thing if you can.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkK29D6NHQQ

    Yes, this is a great horse. BUT, and perhaps more importantly, this is kick a$$ fantastic riding and training. Any number of high level riders would NOT have achieved as harmonious a partnership as this rider has. McLain Ward would likely NOT have achieved as good a relationship. Reiner Klimke would likely NOT have. Karen O'Connor would likely NOT have. (That might be more on account of age than anything else. But also, those riders are/were after competition results. Which, I think this video demonstrates, is not always the same as maximizing the partnership.)

    You should focus not so much on the horses limits, but on your own skills.

    The video demonstrates the rarely praised maximizing of both horse and rider abilities.
    I agree with all of this too.



    And this may rub some wrong, but as a mother of a VERY enthusiastic, bright and talented daughter (not an equestrian but a musician) and this is how I see it:

    I think you need to focus on riding your horse. The one you have now. You master that one, study and transform your current riding, and then talk some more about "upper levels" (which is not 3rd and 4th level, but PSG and GP). As a mom, I'd say: prove it. Prove to me you're the exceptional rider you say you are.

    When I read both threads I see a very confident and enthusiastic young person - I LOVE that. But I read between the lines and truly believe you are searching for the reason why you can't succeed with the horse you have now and you really want a horse that will make you. I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm saying again, as a mother of a young woman who seems to be a lot like you from your posts, that's how I read it.

    My daughter begged for a new flute as soon as she started playing in the 5th grade (the one she wanted cost as much as a very nice horse) but we waited.....and waited. When she blew us away with her ability on her student flute, we bought her a new one. She has not let us down and has continued to commit to playing and improve in great strides (she's playing it this very minute). I don't believe that just because she knew she was passionate and was enthusiastic, and knew immediately that she is destined for the Chicago Symphony that she deserved the better flute right away. Sorry to rant like a mother, but I suspect you are looking for your next horse and that is freaking your mom out.

    Ride the horse you have. Prove you're talented and let things fall into place after you've shown her how far and how hard you're willing to work.

    Okay, off soap box now .

    Comment

    • #22
      Any horse can do a decent training level test, with time and correct training. That's probably a reasonable goal to shoot for, and an attainable one. So your horse might have issues with collection -- that's a long way away.

      Some people find they don't want to put in the time and dedication it takes to be a higher level dressage rider; it's a lot of work. But any work on suppleness, calm and forward is a good thing.

      The good news is, you can't have bad posture even riding training level. Shoulders back!

      Comment

      • #23
        To "do" and to "show" are not the same . . .

        Correct classical training was originally not a competitive discipline--far from it. It was a TOOL, designed to optimize the athletic capabilities and RIDEABILITY of whatever horse you could obtain. "Obtain" was the operative word, because this discipline evolved throughout the eighteenth, nineteenth, and twentieth centuries primarily as a way of "making" mounts for the military--and they had to take ANYTHING that could walk off the train!

        If you Google "U.S. Cavalry" or "Fort Riley" you will see some horses put together pretty sub-optimally who, with time and patient correct training, not only made it to the Grand Prix level but even to the Olympic Games--and they were TB's, grade/TB crosses, even Morgan/TB crosses bred for the old Remount Service. They could jump, too!

        I myself once trained a QH who I bought with a sway back and an upside down neck and sickle hocks up to piaffe, pirouettes, tempi changes and the most magnificent swinging back you'll ever see. And he lived to be 32! That's optimizing the conformation you have to work with. But his training took honestly 15 years, and while we did show and get some very good scores on occasion, he was never going to be competitive in warmblood-land.

        If you are interested in training for the joy of it, and to make your horse rideable, athletic, and sound, please investigate the following author/trainers:

        Jean-Claude Racinet
        Nuno Oliveira
        Paul Belasik
        Dominique Barbier
        General Decarpentry

        They will teach you the "Light," not heavy-seated, heavy-contact "pushing," way of training your horse. WB methods primarily work well with WB's and will make TB's and QH types sour and even lame.

        DO NOT be discouraged! And if you DO want to show, you will do well to investigate low-level Eventing where your mare CAN be as competitive as anyone.

        Take it from someone who made a swan, the envy of all, out of one very ugly $900 "duckling."

        And if you get frustrated (and you will!) come here to vent and just smile for Mummy!
        Last edited by SwampYankee; Jun. 26, 2012, 08:06 PM. Reason: error

        Comment

        • #24
          Hundredacres has spoken wise words. I've never met a parent in the entire world who doesn't want their child to learn. So I'm willing to bet that is not your mother's motivation in any way whatsoever. I'm willing to bet that your mother is hearing something different than you intend to say. There's some famous quote along the lines of "The single greatest problem with communication is the illusion that is occurred."
          So it sounds like what you are trying to say to your mother is that you are 100% committed to working with your current horse and working on your riding and training skills to take your current horse to the highest levels she is capable of (is that right?).
          When a horse doesn't get what we're asking/saying, we have to try a different way until they get it. With humans, the same problem can occur but you have the added advantage of ASKING HER. Find a good time, and ask in a non-confrontational way. "Mom, I'm not sure why you seem upset that I'm trying to learn about conformation. I want to reassure you, but it would help if I really understood what your real concern is."

          Comment

          • #25
            I didn't read all of the responses, but let me see if I have got this right:

            Yo momma doesn't want you to learn because she fears that you might discover some kind of uphill battle and then get discouraged.... while you say "The whole hard, lifelong process of learning dressage.... Bring It!"?

            Really?

            You sound more brave and determined than she is. Perhaps she misunderstand or underestimates you. I'm sure she loves you and means well. So can you let her know that she raised a great kid who wants to bite off big chunks? If these "heated" discussions bother you, I'd suggest two things:

            1) Maybe you and your mom are cut from different cloth. My mom and I are probably like you and yours. I just like risk and challenges and my mom doesn't. I get that and (now) don't judge her for it. But I also make sure that I have other "Big" people in my life to support me. If you can't/don't want to change the way your mom talks to you about riding, don't ask her opinion and do seek out that of people you trust and want to be like.

            2) If her worry or naysaying makes you feel undermined, can you think of what you *would* like to hear instead? For me, it worked well when I could tell my mom "This X that you say doesn't help. I need Y from you. Can you do that?" Again, a mommy who bottom loves you will try, especially if you reassure her that her kid won't be crushed if she finds out that horses aren't about perfection and getting everything you want with a cherry on top.

            Best of luck to you. This can be a really great opportunity for you to change your relationship with one of your parents for the better.
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat

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            • #26
              I still think mom is just worried you'll decide you need a more expensive horse. That she gets to pay for.

              I'm not even a Mom and I think I'm onto something.




              You could just ask her what she's worried about. See what she says.

              Comment

              • Original Poster
                #27
                Thanks again everyone!
                I'd just like to clear up a few things:
                Looking back, I'm thinking my OP was not as clear as I would've liked it to be...the gist of why I want to learn more about conformation is not so I can try and predetermine if Dottie is going to be the horse that moves up the levels with me...I want to go as far as I can with her, and whenever she tops out (if she does), that's when I'll start looking at other options (switching disciplines, rehoming, whatever works out to everyone's benefit). I want to learn about conformation because a) I know, well, not very much about it. At all. I know, that's bad b) As Isabeau Z mentioned, the rider's own conformation and the way it can affect their riding can have an influence on their horse's performance. If I'm aware of certain traits of hers that could make one thing or another a little bit harder, hopefully that'll make it easier for me to adjust the way I ride and the way I use my seat, legs, arms, etc. to accomodate that.
                I'm not trying to ask for a new and more expensive horse...to be honest, if I were to get a new expensive show horse now that would be nice and all, but I'd kick myself because it would probably make me feel like I just gave up. No bueno.
                As far as showing goes, yes, it is a goal of mine but I wonder if that's just the part of me that always wanted to show and never got the chance to that's talking

                As of this afternoon, the goal is not to get her show ready in the shortest amount of time possible (never has been), nor is it to get her "looking like a dressage horse" (she either is or isn't one). It's not even any of the other goals I've mentioned in this thread or others. Right now, it's to get Dottie sound again. She's lame . It showed up at the walk, my trainer thinks it's her right hind.
                If i smell like peppermint, I gave my horse treats.
                If I smell like shampoo, I gave my horse a bath.
                If I smell like manure, I tripped.

                Comment

                • Original Poster
                  #28
                  Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
                  So it sounds like what you are trying to say to your mother is that you are 100% committed to working with your current horse and working on your riding and training skills to take your current horse to the highest levels she is capable of (is that right?).
                  You got it
                  If i smell like peppermint, I gave my horse treats.
                  If I smell like shampoo, I gave my horse a bath.
                  If I smell like manure, I tripped.

                  Comment

                  • #29
                    Trust me, you can have a horse with the most fabulously appropriate conformation for your chosen discipline, and they still go lame...

                    And as far as the draping leg goes, look at Debbie McDonald's conformation, or Hilda Gurney's for that matter They seem to rub along pretty well.

                    Here's hoping Dottie is sound as a pound soon. I tend to be less freaked by something that shows up obviously at a walk than by more subtle lamenesses that are impossible to pin down...

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      Is there something like 4-H you could join? Where I lived, we had horse-judging teams (conformation), with instruction and competitions.

                      Comment

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