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Heads up---What will happen to the NY carriage horses?

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  • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    hackinaround is lynnwood now btw.
    Congratulations what was your point and what does that have to do with carriage horses ? ? Most people know that ; Lynnwood = farm name. Changed at the behest of my daughter whom the farm is named after

    PSS C&C next time you want to "out" someone pick somebody who was trying to hide. If you were half the sleuth you fancy yourself to be you'd have noticed I didn't change any of my profile including pics/sig. Now even B_B knew you had to do that in order to pull of the switcharoo
    Last edited by Lynnwood; Jul. 22, 2012, 06:23 AM.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
      When I was helping out the certain rescue, and found out from the mouths of the 2 people involved that they were not nice like they appeared to be on coth, I dropped out of specialhorses. Then about 10 months later, I tried to warn cothers. But I got flamed. A year later, voila! the rescue and her supporter were outted by others. In the meantime, they collected a lot of money from cothers. Not as much as they wanted me to get from a feed company for them, but a lot of money. (I refused to participate in extorting money from a feed company that was not responsible, just so someone could get the money.)

      hackinaround is lynnwood now btw.
      I don't know what your truck with a rescue has to do with anything, but rest assured -- not only have we not asked anyone for any money, but there is a considerable amount of COTHers who have already come and met us for themselves.

      Also don't know what Hack/Lynn's s/ns have to do with anything, either....

      Edit: ....and I will assume I am correct about who contacted you, since you didn't contradict me...
      VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

      Comment


      • I'll give it one more try. Here's an article on how to use social media to your benefit.

        http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111220194345.htma

        You need a good story, a positive story, a story other than "the RARA's are coming". You can and should use the RARA line, but you need positive, uplifting input as well.

        If I were you, I would start with one particular horse and tell his story. Maybe one who is heading for retirement. Tell that story and tell it well with lots and lots of pictures. Arrange for school tours of the stables and a carriage ride at a very reduced cost. Use it as a learning experience on horse care and health and promote the heck out of "giving back to the community." You need to be positive, not just solely negative. You need to make people want to like you, not just hate the opposition.

        Just for me alone, I've gone from supporting you, to on the fence, to where I stand now, which is hanging on to that fence by a finger and the reason for the change is solely the way you have presented yourself on COTH.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
          I'll give it one more try. Here's an article on how to use social media to your benefit.

          http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111220194345.htma

          You need a good story, a positive story, a story other than "the RARA's are coming". You can and should use the RARA line, but you need positive, uplifting input as well.

          If I were you, I would start with one particular horse and tell his story. Maybe one who is heading for retirement. Tell that story and tell it well with lots and lots of pictures. Arrange for school tours of the stables and a carriage ride at a very reduced cost. Use it as a learning experience on horse care and health and promote the heck out of "giving back to the community." You need to be positive, not just solely negative. You need to make people want to like you, not just hate the opposition.

          Just for me alone, I've gone from supporting you, to on the fence, to where I stand now, which is hanging on to that fence by a finger and the reason for the change is solely the way you have presented yourself on COTH.
          Alright! Now, it's getting somewhere! Maybe the drivers can get one of their own (I hope that's PC enough but don't know how else to say it) to do some stories, such as suggested. Start small and work your way up. Not like any of the drivers have anything else to do (!!) but maybe a collective effort. It will be hard, but, what's the alternative??

          As for supporting to barely hanging in there, on the fence, seems to me, just watching the RARA's would offput anyone and steer horse people to supporting just about anyone who makes a living with horses. The time is coming, folks. The RARA's probably are showing up in other places and are well-funded it seems. So, you may not like everything the drivers do, but, the alternative is much, much worse.
          GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post

            As for supporting to barely hanging in there, on the fence, seems to me, just watching the RARA's would offput anyone and steer horse people to supporting just about anyone who makes a living with horses.
            To a point. If it's someone who is determined to shoot themselves in the foot, I'd want no involvement.

            The constant refrain of "come look and see for yourself" is no help either. Many people are not in the position to "come and see". The carriage industry needs make it easy for us to "come and see" without having to travel to NY.

            Get someone with a little talent to video willing customers and carriage drivers. Make little vignettes of a child, an adult, a handicapped person, the terminally ill (use sympathy and empathy of your potential audience to benefit yourself...I'd be giving some freebies here) who always wanted a carriage ride, how much fun it was, how wonderful the horse is, how wonderful the driver is, what the horse eats, what he drinks and when, when does he go for R&R, what happens to him when he's ready to retire. Upload to you tube. Distribute the videos over social media. Do this over, and over, and over. Send the videos to the TV stations, especially the early morning local shows. They're always looking for filler. Eventually, you should get some of them calling you for short morning pieces. Work it. Make yourself interesting, accessible, funny, caring and humane for your audience. If you don't do it, the RARA will continue to drive the message. You need to change the message.

            As an aside, if your drivers have a horse that's not in good condition...get that horse off the street.
            Last edited by LauraKY; Jul. 22, 2012, 01:47 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
              I'll give it one more try. Here's an article on how to use social media to your benefit.

              http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111220194345.htma

              You need a good story, a positive story, a story other than "the RARA's are coming". You can and should use the RARA line, but you need positive, uplifting input as well.

              If I were you, I would start with one particular horse and tell his story. Maybe one who is heading for retirement. Tell that story and tell it well with lots and lots of pictures. Arrange for school tours of the stables and a carriage ride at a very reduced cost. Use it as a learning experience on horse care and health and promote the heck out of "giving back to the community." You need to be positive, not just solely negative. You need to make people want to like you, not just hate the opposition.

              Just for me alone, I've gone from supporting you, to on the fence, to where I stand now, which is hanging on to that fence by a finger and the reason for the change is solely the way you have presented yourself on COTH.
              Thanks for the info Laura. Just so you know they did run such a story. The entire Clip Clop 2011 was based around Paddy's retirement to Blue Star Equiculture after 12 years as a carriage horse and BSE becoming the official retirement sanctuary for any NYC horse that found its self in need.

              There was even an official retirement ceremony much like you and I are used to with show horses and race horses. With his owner taking off his bridle and handing him over to BSE. The media was invited and the RaRa's showed up in MASS to protest?? the retirement ceremony taking what should have been something touching and wonderful and turning it into a circus.

              Even after Mr. Malone Paddy's devoted owner spoke about him and his service to the city and how Mr. Malone was a 2nd generation carriage driver. This was the respect it was shown in the press. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...84958202_n.jpg

              So while I do believe that feel good press is needed. Please don't think because of what you've seen here in a few heated discussions that it has not been/is being implemented.

              As per your own choices to let your feelings about on person wether it be their personality behavior or style turn you off to an entire group that is IMHO a pretty shallow pool in which to cast assumption and condemnation. I don't like Ted Nugent one bit think hes a total scum bag "but" I don't avoid listening to Rock, hunting or the NRA because of him. Either you support the horses or you don't.
              Last edited by Lynnwood; Jul. 22, 2012, 03:03 PM.
              "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                Congratulations what was your point and what does that have to do with carriage horses ? ? Most people know that ; Lynnwood = farm name. Changed at the behest of my daughter whom the farm is named after
                You named your daughter wood ? (just teasin ya)
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                  Thanks for the info Laura. Just so you know they did run such a story. The entire Clip Clop 2011 was based around Paddy's retirement to Blue Star Equiculture after 12 years as a carriage horse and BSE becoming the official retirement sanctuary for any NYC horse that found its self in need.

                  There was even an official retirement ceremony much like you and I are used to with show horses and race horses. With his owner taking off his bridle and handing him over to BSE. The media was invited and the RaRa's showed up in MASS to protest?? the retirement ceremony taking what should have been something touching and wonderful and turning it into a circus.

                  Even after Mr. Malone Paddy's devoted owner spoke about him and his service to the city and how Mr. Malone was a 2nd generation carriage driver. This was the respect it was shown in the press. https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...84958202_n.jpg

                  So while I do believe that feel good press is needed. Please don't think because of what you've seen here in a few heated discussions that it has not been/is being implemented.

                  As per your own choices to let your feelings about on person wether it be their personality behavior or style turn you off to an entire group that is IMHO a pretty shallow pool in which to cast assumption and condemnation. I don't like Ted Nugent one bit thing hes a total scum bag "but" I don't avoid listening to Rock, hunting or the NRA because of him. Either you support the horses or you don't.
                  Wow (about the article). Welp, thanks to the internet, anyone can have a channel or voice. What about a youtube channel? FB has been done to death, I'm guessing. Then the stealthy filming of the RARA's. Maybe an appointed person to take care of calling the editors (as above) and ragging on them about such disrespect of a ceremony.

                  I have Skype and somethingorother where my kids and I talk all the time, face to face. How taking 'tours' of the stables in real time...or better yet...show the RARA's protesting. Now, that would be something to watch!!

                  Just brainstorming.
                  GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                  Comment


                  • Everyone probably has an "if I win the lottery" list. Adding to mine is to put some money aside to pay airfare, hotel room and incidentals for about a hundred anti-carriage horse, or on-the-fence COTHers so they could attend Clip Clop NYC.

                    What an eye-opener that was when I went this year!
                    It's 2017. Do you know where your old horse is?

                    www.streamhorsetv.com -- website with horse show livestream listings and links.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post
                      Wow (about the article). Welp, thanks to the internet, anyone can have a channel or voice. What about a youtube channel? FB has been done to death, I'm guessing. Then the stealthy filming of the RARA's. Maybe an appointed person to take care of calling the editors (as above) and ragging on them about such disrespect of a ceremony.

                      I have Skype and somethingorother where my kids and I talk all the time, face to face. How taking 'tours' of the stables in real time...or better yet...show the RARA's protesting. Now, that would be something to watch!!

                      Just brainstorming.
                      http://www.youtube.com/user/stoplies...e=results_main

                      Nice collection of videos, tours of the stables (pointing out the windows, fans, sprinklers, auto waterers and sleeping horses) to a farrier appointment, one smallish guy moving the carriage....
                      Originally posted by BigMama1
                      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                      GNU Terry Prachett

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                        You named your daughter wood ? (just teasin ya)
                        Not any worse then half a dozen of the in flavor celebrity names but no its Kailynn
                        "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                        Comment


                        • Alagirl, that looks like an interesting video...but that's what I'm talking about. The title is Stop Lies See the Truth. That's not inviting. They need a plan to get the videos out...using social media, the press, whatever. They need a whole marketing plan to show the public that the horses are well taken care of and enjoy their jobs. It needs to be positive, not negative. And they need to smile and say yes sir, yes ma'am, no matter the provocation. It's a head game and the other side is winning.

                          And while they're doing that they need to dig up any piece of dirt on the RARAs they can and make sure it gets publicity...make it personal, I'm talking about dirt on individuals, you want to discredit them...without letting them know they are behind it. Take a look at politics, that's all this is. That's how it's done. Pure negative campaigning rarely wins in the end.

                          I'd start having Princess contests every week. The winner gets a carriage ride for her and x number of friends, complete with a photo shoot. Positive publicity, that's what you want. Then you have a ready mailing list (from the contest applicants) for mailings. Keep. It. Positive.

                          That's all the advice I'm giving for free...and I'm not interested in a contract. Just use your heads people.

                          Comment


                          • It is my understanding that the industry has a number of irons in the fire, as it were, and I assume that interwebby presence isn't at the top of the list. Not when the drivers are working, looking after their horses, defending themselves against real-life crazies, and trying to make ends meet.

                            As a message board whose emphasis is on working horses and sharing our lives with them, I expect that we here are willing to cut these folks a little slack. It is, after all, in our best interest. But I hope that we all treat each other this way, in general.

                            I am often disappointed. Nevertheless, I hope.

                            I wish I could quit my job and move to NYC to work with these drivers. I truly do. I want to be a part of this, for the better. But like the rest of you, I don't have that luxury. So my job is to be supportive of an industry that I know is not inherently wrong and is certainly not abusive as a matter of course. My job is to use my brain and not lend credence to the RARA rallying cries. My job is to defend the horses and those who work with them.

                            I have disagreements about how some things are done, organizationally. But I refuse to divide this party. I will take my issues, privately, and strive to make things better.

                            It's the least I can do.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Paragon View Post
                              It is my understanding that the industry has a number of irons in the fire, as it were, and I assume that interwebby presence isn't at the top of the list. Not when the drivers are working, looking after their horses, defending themselves against real-life crazies, and trying to make ends meet.

                              As a message board whose emphasis is on working horses and sharing our lives with them, I expect that we here are willing to cut these folks a little slack. It is, after all, in our best interest. But I hope that we all treat each other this way, in general.

                              I am often disappointed. Nevertheless, I hope.

                              I wish I could quit my job and move to NYC to work with these drivers. I truly do. I want to be a part of this, for the better. But like the rest of you, I don't have that luxury. So my job is to be supportive of an industry that I know is not inherently wrong and is certainly not abusive as a matter of course. My job is to use my brain and not lend credence to the RARA rallying cries. My job is to defend the horses and those who work with them.

                              I have disagreements about how some things are done, organizationally. But I refuse to divide this party. I will take my issues, privately, and strive to make things better.

                              It's the least I can do.

                              Wise words.
                              Originally posted by BigMama1
                              Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                              GNU Terry Prachett

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by goneriding24 View Post

                                I have Skype and somethingorother where my kids and I talk all the time, face to face. How taking 'tours' of the stables in real time...or better yet...show the RARA's protesting. Now, that would be something to watch!!

                                Just brainstorming.
                                That would be something to watch! Find a way to live stream the protests and put the links out there for everyone to see as it happens. Show the world what you have to deal with.

                                Maybe also live stream the inside of the stables to show the inner workings of the barn on a daily basis....show you have nothing to hide!
                                Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                                Bernard M. Baruch

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                  Just for me alone, I've gone from supporting you, to on the fence, to where I stand now, which is hanging on to that fence by a finger and the reason for the change is solely the way you have presented yourself on COTH.
                                  I find this astonishing. From many accounts Steve Jobs was a jerk - has that stopped you from buying Apple products? How is this any different? Oh. Wait. That's right. He put on a good public face. But he was still a jerk - but somehow his good public face makes it okay?

                                  My BA is in public relations and I spent 10+ years in marketing before going to law school. My father owned what was then one of the largest advertising agencies in the SE. I have yet to see ONE pr/marketing/advertising person that has NEVER lost their cool "in public". And you can tell us all day long how they should do it "better"; guess what? You can say that about any and every pr/marketing/advertising campaign.

                                  If you have something constructive say, say it. Or, better yet - volunteer to actually DO SOMETHING. If you have nothing but complaints, save it or put it in a private message.

                                  And for those of you that think the driver should have been thrown under the bus: no one is disputing that what he said was bad, but one bad blow up and he should be thrown under the bus? Really? I hope you NEVER have to endure what these drivers endure day in and day out. I spent one afternoon on the hack line and I was ready to blow and I have training in dealing with these kinds of situations.

                                  Get off your high horse. It's distorting your view.
                                  Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                                  "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                                  Comment


                                  • Newsflash. Those drivers are accused daily on one of the most public streetcorners in the world of:

                                    Murder
                                    Abuse
                                    Slavery
                                    Beating their horses
                                    Bloodguilt for Charlie
                                    Being "at fault" for drivers driving into their carriages

                                    They are threatenned with sabotage and poison. They are harassed continually by badged law enforcement officers (ASPCA) who wish to shut them down as per their public mission statement. Their homes are at risk, their families have been threatenned by raras, and yet they have some of the best cared-for, nicest horses in the world, doing a job with horses in a city built by horses, carrying forward a tradition and trade over 5000 years old.

                                    Frankly, if someone sat there berating me with lies, insults, and threats for as long they have, and using lies to smear my name and my career, I'd have lost my temper years ago and probably started swinging fists over it.

                                    You just don't -do- that. It's not right. It should be criminal, but apparently it's protected because it's "protest speech"; but it's really "hate speech" and public slander. Nutshell version: they are under deliberate and direct attack by some exteremly unscrupulous people for whom the truth is an irrelevant liability and disregarded in their campaign.

                                    Comment


                                    • Why isn't threatening murder and hurting families not hate speech? Is it because the drivers aren't a protected class? I can see if we had true freedom of speech, could say anything we wanted, but we don't. We have all sorts of rules (laws?) where we can't say anything against certain people/entities. So, to my mind, we don't have true freedom of speech. This is where streaming the RARA's would come in handy.
                                      GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by TheBarnRules View Post
                                        I find this astonishing. From many accounts Steve Jobs was a jerk - has that stopped you from buying Apple products? How is this any different? Oh. Wait. That's right. He put on a good public face. But he was still a jerk - but somehow his good public face makes it okay?

                                        My BA is in public relations and I spent 10+ years in marketing before going to law school. My father owned what was then one of the largest advertising agencies in the SE. I have yet to see ONE pr/marketing/advertising person that has NEVER lost their cool "in public". And you can tell us all day long how they should do it "better"; guess what? You can say that about any and every pr/marketing/advertising campaign.

                                        If you have something constructive say, say it. Or, better yet - volunteer to actually DO SOMETHING. If you have nothing but complaints, save it or put it in a private message.

                                        And for those of you that think the driver should have been thrown under the bus: no one is disputing that what he said was bad, but one bad blow up and he should be thrown under the bus? Really? I hope you NEVER have to endure what these drivers endure day in and day out. I spent one afternoon on the hack line and I was ready to blow and I have training in dealing with these kinds of situations.

                                        Get off your high horse. It's distorting your view.
                                        First of all, I don't buy Apple products, shop at Walmart, eat at Chik-fil-a. I never liked Apple from the get go...way overpriced, tried to corner the academic market and failed, now they're trying the same thing with e-textbooks.

                                        The only reason I started commenting is the thread where the carriage people completely lost it with infighting and insults to other posters.

                                        I'm not the enemy, I gave good advice, like it or not. It's all a head game on the part of the RARA and the carriage industry needs to learn to not to react in a way that will impact them negatively.

                                        Comment


                                        • Perhaps this would give some momentum to a proposal to require that protesters keep back a certain distance from the carriages? Speaker Quinn sent a letter to the Teamsters (rather than to the carriage association, hmmm) in response to this video, and now the drivers are going to have to all have sensitivity training.

                                          Perhaps Ms. Quinn would have better luck preventing future incidents by introducing an ordinance to keep the protesters back 100 feet from any carriage? The carriage association does employ contract lobbyists to represent them before the council, and an ordinance like this seems like a good idea for all parties: it'll protect the RARAs from those mean drivers, and protect the passengers from psycho Elizabeth Forel types.

                                          Because profanity is such a rarity on the streets of NYC. My goodness.
                                          \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                                          Comment

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