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Fella is turning out to be a very reactive horse

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  • #61
    1. Never lead this horse without a stud shank.
    2. If your trainer has had more than one instance of this horse getting away with this behavior, you need a new trainer.
    3. If this horse is 11 and you cannot school him yourself, find him a new home.
    4. I would change trainers to someone who has a proven track record with spooks.
    5. Don't let your trainer put a working student on this horse.
    6. The horse needs LOTS of time under saddle. He needs arena work followed by a trail ride 6 days a week. On his day off he needs ground work.
    7. Ride through the spooks, put him to work and whatever you do don't get off if he misbehaves. If you chicken out after he spins, he will just learn that is the way to the pasture. If he gets crazy at the canter just trot him forever. Don't let him stop until you ask him to stop.
    8. Calm and Cool works wonders but if it is not used in conjunction with a huge amount of training, you are wasting your money.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
      I am looking for the reasons he behaves that way, not making excuses for the behavior.
      Because he can.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
        I think you misunderstand me. I am looking for the reasons he behaves that way, not making excuses for the behavior. His behavior is not acceptable nor is it safe.

        Paula
        WHY doesn't matter! The point that matters is IT IS HAPPENING. It is what it is. He is misbehaving and his actions are not appropriately managed.

        runNjump was spot-on.

        Watch horses in a wild herd. Their body language starts very small and gets bigger as needed. A tip of the ear, a wrinkle of the nose... all mean something to other horses. The other horses listen and heed, or challenge. There is no "WHY". No shades of gray. Black and white. Dominance or submissiveness. No in-between wishy-washy touchy-feely.

        Chances are huge he has tipped his ear or turned his head or rear end in a very suble manner that was ignored by you and/or your trainer and the barn help.

        So now, he's thinking "Well, ok if that worked and they didn't assert dominance over me, I'll ramp it up." So he does. And it continues to be overlooked. Now you have a beast that is getting away with murder.

        Your options are to work him yourself and work it out, talk to the trainer and work it out, send him elsewhere and work it out, or don't work it out and deal with the consequences. Or sell. Your choice.
        Alis volat propriis.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
          I think you misunderstand me. I am looking for the reasons he behaves that way, not making excuses for the behavior. His behavior is not acceptable nor is it safe.

          Paula
          But why doesn't really matter. What you do about it does. He's a horse. He'll learn. Correct the bad behavior and go on about your business.
          Caitlin
          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

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          • #65
            Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
            I think you misunderstand me. I am looking for the reasons he behaves that way, not making excuses for the behavior. His behavior is not acceptable nor is it safe.

            Paula
            Why even care why?

            I personally don't care if my horses' tails are on fire, they sure as mcshizzle better not run me over about it. They can run away from their on-fire tail by going AROUND.

            Meanwhile they eat 15+ lbs of grain a day, plus a small mountain of beet pulp, are kept sport horse fit, don't get any calming supplements, haven't seen the chiropracter in years, and sometimes have to perform like good citizens even if their very fit and high-octane selves have been stalled with a pulled shoe/poor weather for several days and suddenly they are being asked to hop on the truck and go someplace new and behave upon arrival for their owner who hates longing and would prefer to just hop on and go.

            They still have to flipping behave even though they have legions of excuses not to.
            Last edited by meupatdoes; Jun. 20, 2012, 02:58 PM.
            The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
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            • #66
              Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
              Because he can.
              This.

              It doesn't matter really WHY this horse is misbehaving. Being in at night is not a reason, it's an excuse. The wrong kind of feed (unless they are really giving a whole heck of a lot of it) isn't a reason either. Unsafe practices aren't even a reason, but they are giving him a perfect opportunity.
              I wasn't always a Smurf
              Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
              "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
              The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #67
                I think that sometimes knowing why a behavior occurs informs the solution.

                Paula
                He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).

                Comment


                • #68
                  Because he is a horse.

                  Because he can.

                  Because it works.

                  Because nobody handling him is doing a damn thing about it.

                  Because the sky is blue.

                  Because the grass is green.

                  Because he thinks unicorns are real and wants one for a pet.

                  Take your pick.
                  Alis volat propriis.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                    I think that sometimes knowing why a behavior occurs informs the solution.

                    Paula
                    See post 62
                    Last edited by carolprudm; Jun. 20, 2012, 03:10 PM. Reason: oops
                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                      I think that sometimes knowing why a behavior occurs informs the solution.

                      Paula
                      Only if it changes your proposed solution. Too rich grain? Work him more often and teach him to respect boundaries on the ground. Turn out? Work more often and teach him to respect boundaries on the ground. Training issue? Work more often and teach him to respect boundaries on the ground.

                      This doesn't sound (to me) to be a physical issue. So I suggest working him more often and teaching him respect on the ground.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I'm not going to belabor the "horse needs a strong leader/CTJ moment" posts, because they all have good things to say, and I can't add anything to them. Paula, it does sound as though you have been the leader that Fella needs, but the barn staff is falling short in that role. As Fella's owner, you can ask them to do better, maybe have them walk with you as you handle him to see what you do better/differently.

                        I can also understand that you want to see if there is some other factor coming into play here. It will take time to change one variable at a time, like food, ulcer evaluation/treatment and turnout, but you may find a partial answer there. How long has he been at this facility with this trainer before you noticed a change?

                        I did find that my generally calm pony became more spooky when she was turned out with a cranky alpha mare. Basically, during her turnout time she was always looking over her shoulder for the bite or kick coming her way, and that carried over into her everday life. A change of roomate helped. But she did not become pushy with me, just a little more spooky.

                        I hope that you find some answers. But you may also find that Fella will improve, but still not be the horse you can go camping with.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                          I think that sometimes knowing why a behavior occurs informs the solution.

                          Paula
                          This is so true in some situations.
                          For example, identifying a saddle fit problem can really help a horse that is suffering from poor saddle fit.

                          But getting into paralysis of analysis over "Just kick its @$$ when it tries to run over top of you" is the opposite.
                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
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                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                            I think that sometimes knowing why a behavior occurs informs the solution.

                            Paula
                            This is you making excuses for him again. The solution has been stated and stated and stated. How you handle it doesn't change, regardless of "why" he's doing it.

                            As has already been said, he's a horse. Not a person capable of higher reasoning. He's doing it because he can. Pure and simple. He doesn't need therapy. He needs training.
                            "Aye God, Woodrow..."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              What's his work program consist of? I'm curious about your trainer's relationship with him u/s. Is he working "for" her? In retrospect after you learned of this problem, and Im just guessing that it was brought to your attention just recently, does she seem tentative when she rides him, or is the hargy-bargy Fella only emerge on the ground? Does he work up a good sweat during your and trainer's rides? How does he look/feel under saddle?

                              I'd be curious about what is going on during the training sessions if my horse(or dog!) refused to respect my trainer on the ground.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                magnesium deficiency and he is in just about the right environment for that to be an issue -on grass, late spring, in work. And symptoms of magnesium deficiency include nervousness.

                                Paula
                                Sorry, I didn't read the whole post. I've found mag to be helpful in cooling a horse.

                                From the parts I've read, everyone else has said what I would have said.
                                GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by bluemooncowgirl View Post
                                  Because he is a horse.

                                  Because he can.

                                  Because it works.

                                  Because nobody handling him is doing a damn thing about it.

                                  Because the sky is blue.

                                  Because the grass is green.

                                  Because he thinks unicorns are real and wants one for a pet.

                                  Take your pick.
                                  You owe me a new T-shirt. I snorked my Pepsi down my front, thank you very much....
                                  GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Okay, can't stand it, gotta add my $.03 in. When you ride this beast, you are only starting to get somewhere when you see a smidge of sweat forming in the triangle of his neck. When you see that, that is the point he is starting to listen, settle and get to work.

                                    You might think he'll just get fitter and fitter with these type of rides. Not so. It will take less and less time to get him settled as he realizes he doesn't have an unlimited reserve of engery and it's waaayyyy less work to settle and do the 'right' thing.

                                    As I see it, either you do something drastic, for your sake, or you don't and keep having this problem. He's 11, not a young'un who doesn't get it. Cottonpatch the sucker and I guarantee you, you'll see and have a different horse, both in the irons and on the ground.
                                    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      The only wrinkle I see here is the breed combo -- perch/standardbred should not be all reactive and kooky, that's a couple of pretty calm breeds there, in my experience.

                                      Which makes me think he's worried about something, and he's probably big and pushy, as well. I am a big fan of the eye problem theory here.

                                      No excuses, but the only horses I ever worked with that had this kind of behavior were Arabs, and part Arabs, and TBs. And they look for things to spook at when they are bored.

                                      I would also like to hear about how he is under saddle for the trainer. Honestly, I have never heard of a good trainer that would allow a horse to a) knock her or someone else over and b) bolt and give a face plant to the handler. I think if you look closely he probably has her bamboozled under saddle, too. He's big and intimidating. And possibly scared, or having some metabolic problems.

                                      It's tough to post here because invariably the OP comes under critcism! It seems you genuinely care for your horse, which is really good.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                        I think you misunderstand me. I am looking for the reasons he behaves that way, not making excuses for the behavior. His behavior is not acceptable nor is it safe.

                                        Paula
                                        He behaves that way because he can. You are, i believe, over-thinking this.

                                        Unless something legitimately scared him -- a herd of cattle running at him, a coyote coming out of the woods, etc. -- the fact that he is a prey animal should not cause him to knock over someone who is leading him. The fact that they didn't have a CTJ meeting on the spot and that they are not now leading him with a stud chain or at least a chain over his nose every.single.time. they lead him, is a problem.

                                        He has been taught that there are no consequences for behaving badly.
                                        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          OK, I'm coming back to join the chorus of:
                                          Nevermind WHY, just fix it!

                                          Horses are just too.damn.big to mow down puny us.
                                          Who cares why Fella disregards the space humans occupy, he needs to recognize that is a Very Bad Thing yesterday, if not sooner.

                                          Forget the history of NH, forget everything except he needs to respect any human leading him, not just you.

                                          I can (sort of) understand your new trainer being caught by surprise once, but why was she not taking extra care with a horse she did not know, let alone leading him with another horse?
                                          Big hole in the logic there.

                                          Show her what a nice guy he is for you, let her copy what you're doing.
                                          If she can't get this accomplished in one or two sessions then you need someone else handling him. Period.

                                          Whoever said every time you handle a horse you are training is right on the money.
                                          If this trainer & her staff are doing more handling than you are, then they are just reinforcing the bad habits.

                                          And do not despair of Fella ending up your trail/camping buddy.
                                          With correct handling he could do a 180 and go back to being the horse you rode into the pond.
                                          My TWH - all 17h of him - came to me ready to snort fire everytime I got on.
                                          Within 6 mos he was so calmed down I was able to take him camping overnight and highline him even though I had no idea if he'd ever done anything like that before.
                                          *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                                          Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                                          Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                                          Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015

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