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Legality of ownership

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  • #41
    Originally posted by lconroe View Post
    All I did was work. Int he morning went at 6;30 am till 10 or 11. Fixed fence for 6 hours, Brought all the hay to the barn from the garage were it was stored on my vehicle. 8 bales every other day. Whenever farrier came I helped, holding and fetching horses, Then in the evening at 6 or so went back and watered and fed hay again and cleaned stall of mares who were close to foaling, took another yearling out for walks. I would be there at least an hour. As far as training on mine, he hadn't ever been out of the barn when I got him. He would rear and carry on bad. He wouldn't let you do anything with him. I had him mannered with leading and I could sit on the ground by him without any worry. My Grandson (5) would go by him and Blaze would put his head down for him to hug him. So as far as everyone saying its not a good choice for him with his age I don't agree. You didn't know my horse and I feel he was different than others.I offered to take him out of there and she said NO... I felt I was being taken advantage of as she would want more and more done all the time. And nobody hit a nail , all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..
    Did she pay you any wages? If not, sue her for that. She might decide to give the colt back instead.


    • #42
      I know you are upset. Take a deep breath and CALM DOWN! She has won if you don't. You did work for her. Figure up how many hours you worked and then figure out how much you would have been paid for that work. Be fair and reasonable. Don't try to claim $20 per hour.

      Do you have texts or e-mails regarding work? Something like that would help back up your claim.

      You have the registration papers and vet bills to show that you didn't ask for wages because you thought you were getting the horse but since the owner rescinded that offer, you are owed wages.

      Get a lawyer to send her a letter to that effect. She might decide it's easier to turn over the colt. If not, go to court.

      Does anyone know if she could turn the BO in to the department of labor for lack of wages or something like that?


      • #43
        She'd have to have some kind of proof that she did the work in exchange for wages or compensation and not just volunteer.

        I'd like to know what breed registration she used. If it's true.

        She says she's going to court in June. I don't know how that happened over Memorial Day unless she neglected to mention in in her first post.

        As I keep saying, things don't add up. I can't imagine there is a 4-H club in the country that will allow a 5-6 year old use a 7 month old colt as a training project. Training projects are reserved for ADVANCED older riders. The project manual specifically states that training projects for 2 year olds (and this baby is no 2 year old) are NOT for beginner or intermediate riders.

        I think the whole thing is a bunch of hooey.

        How long before she come's back to say she's not coming back to comment? Any bets out there?


        • #44
          Maybe the BO you worked for realised what kind of person you were and what plans you had for this colt and is only trying to protect it.

          How old are you? Was this your first attemps at horse ownership? What are your skills/knowledge regarding horse training/riding/owning?

          Acting like that on a BB...just can't imagine how it is in real life...threatening people on the internet....not a wise move at all.

          Get over yourself, stop crying and act like an adult.

          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

          Originally posted by LauraKY
          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
          HORSING mobile training app


          • #45
            Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
            How long before she come's back to say she's not coming back to comment? Any bets out there?


            Oh nevermind.
            It's about time for the BO to find this, and a couple of houseguests to defend both sides.

            I think I forgo the popcorn in favor of ribs and wings today!
            Pass the watermelon.


            • #46
              Who volunteers for that kind of work? Sure helping stack hay and helping feed now and then I (and a judge) could buy. Several hours of hard work every day?

              OP might have an e-mail or text that would at least give credence to what she says.

              If the BO decided not to let OP have the colt in exchange for work, then she owes OP wages.

              I"m going to go one step further and say she also owes the vet bills OP paid. OP would not have paid them if she didn't believe the colt was hers.


              • #47
                dacasodive, still a true believer?


                • #48
                  I don't understand that the now 5 yo grandson is going to use the now 7 month old colt in 4H now , this minute... maybe in a few years? when the kid is 10 and the horse is 5? Makes more sense to me.
                  Good luck OP.
                  I am so tired of BM/BOs pulling stuff out of their hats with no notice... must be something in the air/in the water?? sigh


                  • #49
                    I've worked in that kind of situation before. My old trainer was caught short handed so I fed and hayed (is that a word?) her horses in exchange for riding lessons at a rate of $10.00/hr. I racked up 11 classes at $45/hr in short order because I was there a few days a week and it took about 4 hours of work. The difference is that this verbal was over something like lessons. I would not have made a verbal agreement for purchasing a horse -that kind of thing requires paper.

                    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


                    • #50
                      I can also see some scenario where the owner had the barn worker handling the colt because the owner was old, and had gotten kicked, and the OP wanted to buy the colt through barn work but was not consistent or there enough to fullfill that kind of agreement. I can see the owner not wanting to give her the colt for many reasons, and then finding out the barn worker had had the vet come and draw blood and had registered the colt in her name. The owner is horrified, moves the colt to where the barn worker can't find it and the barn worker calls the cops.

                      We have all seen threads which begin "Former barn worker tried to take one of my colts, WWYD?"

                      I can't quite reconcile the idea that the barn worker has been working and not paid, although she never says that. She only says she had an agreement...Oh! She had an agreement to do barn work in exchange for a colt.

                      So she works with the colt, spends time with it, but never really does any barn work consistently. Probably some barn work, but not consistently . She says "Even after" she did specific regular barn work, but how do you go back to a barn after calling the cops and getting a court date and having the woman hide the horse? But she says then she was working hard.

                      I think she worked with the horse but didn't do alot of barn work, owner found out she had registered the horse and flipped out, because she had never done the barn work end of things. Moves the horse, OP starts doing her barn work chores, but its too late - owner thinks she's a stalker.

                      Originally posted by lconroe View Post
                      The registrations papers with KMSHA with a dna sample don't mean anything??
                      My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods


                      • #51
                        I bought my mini from a 17 year old girl. She had purchased the horse when she was 11-12 by working off the purchase price. All of the paperwork came to me when I bought the horse. There is a written agreement (nothing fancy just on a piece of notebook paper) that "girl" will purchase the horse (then a yearling) from "adult" (who actually was a 4-H leader) by working at the rate of $/hour. Following that was a list of all the days she worked, how much she earned toward the purchase price, and how much she still had to pay. Took her a year to work off the money owed (horse stayed with the adult all that time). The girl never sent in the transfer papers so when I bought the mare I had to transfer them from the original owner to me.

                        So OP, hopefully you have something showing when you worked and how much you worked. Horses are sold without papers all the time (they get lost, people forget to transfer them, etc.). Without some sort of documentation I doubt there is anything a small claims judge can do. If you go in frothing at the mouth shouting "revenge" the judge probably won't even listen to you. And if "accidents" happen to the barn owner or her property you'll just find yourself in jail.
                        Crayola Posse - Pine Green
                        Whinnie Pine (June 4, 1977 - April 29, 2008)
                        Autumn Caper (April 27, 1989 - May 24, 2015)
                        Murphy (April 28, 1994 - May 5, 2017)


                        • #52
                          Still sceptical here...until I hear what the work was to be in exchange for what??? Value of horse...board of horse?? Time with horse??

                          Still she says she has been working with the colt for 7 months, so since it was 3 months old??

                          Not adding up.
                          Boss Mare Eventing Blog


                          • #53
                            The OP may be a troll, and she's certainly emotional... BUT she isn't the only person who has been in such a position.

                            When I first moved to Texas after graduating from college, I wanted to get back into horses and found a woman who needed some help with her horses. She was older and had health issues, and she had Arabs (my favorite). I came out and helped with the horses (no stall cleaning, just putting horses in and out, longing, grooming, whatever she needed. Often I had to sit around and listen to her talk as she was lonely and needed someone to talk to).

                            I was supposed to be working off the cost of a horse, and I had picked one out - a gorgeous gray gelding I was in love with.

                            After a few months, my fiance at the time (DH now) and I moved out there to help more because her barn help left. We cleaned stalls, fed horses, fixed fences, etc. etc. etc.

                            And when this woman was evicted from the property for being a squatter (eek - we didn't know that she had stopped paying on the property eons ago AND been evicted but come back onto the property), we had to part ways. I was ready to take Flight with me, but she wouldn't let him leave. She wouldn't let any horse on the property leave.

                            I believed in the honesty of people - I had never had reason to doubt it before. I had nothing in writing, and we left without my horse.

                            About a year after we parted ways, this woman overdosed that particular horse with phenylbarbitol (which she had stolen from a vet!) and the remainder of her horses were seized by law enforcement. That's how I got involved in rescue... because I was trying to help those horses that I knew and loved and couldn't help when we knew them. (It sounds like a soap opera, the long version is even worse, but it is true).

                            We're all stupid sometimes. And sometimes that means that others are effected (in my case, it was Flight... and in the OP's case it may be her grandson).

                            The problem comes when you start screaming about revenge, injustice, and how your situation is special and no one has suffered like you have. Some of us have been there before and still have emotional scars. But it doesn't mean that we scream and pound our firsts and expect others to make it right. We realize our mistakes (not getting things in writing) and we mourn our loss and we move on.

                            And we don't scream at those who were trying to answer our question/give us advice. I do realize some people here sound harsh and some people are harsh. But when you started screaming at them, you opened the door to all of that. Respect generally works better.
                            Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                            Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Alagirl View Post

                              Sounds like Phil Collins.
                              I laughed at this harder than I should have.
                              "Aye God, Woodrow..."


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                dacasodive, still a true believer?
                                I have known people like the OP's barn owner so it's not really that far fetched to me.

                                But yeah, I can be pretty gullible sometimes.


                                • #56
                                  Who signed the breeding certificate (which you need to register with KMSHA) and who is the owner on the breeding certificate?



                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by lconroe View Post
                                    ... all I asked was what proves Horse Ownership and nobody has answered me yet..
                                    Actually, yes, several people have.

                                    Bill of sale = proof of horse ownership. The other items (papers, vet/farrier receipts, etc.) are nice to have as supporting documents. But in the U.S., a bill of sale, signed and dated by both seller and buyer, is generally required to prove ownership.

                                    I'm sorry for your situation, iconroe. Honestly, the suggestions that you write up all the hours you worked, tasks you performed, etc., and "back-door" your way to getting the colt by demanding cash payment for the work (and be ready to hit your state or local labor authority if necessary).
                                    Equinox Equine Massage

                                    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
                                    -Albert Camus


                                    • #58
                                      Oh this has gotten too funny.
                                      OP- Don't waste your money going to court. You will lose. You have nothing in writing!


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by guest12345 View Post
                                        Oh this has gotten too funny.
                                        OP- Don't waste your money going to court. You will lose. You have nothing in writing!

                                        Pass the wine please, Box only!


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by lconroe
                                          There was no agreement REMEMBER???? No signed contract. forget about it I will never see him again.. I live only one quarter mile from her so I WILL GET EVEN!!!! And when she goes to court in June with us she will wish she never did this to ME! END OF DISCUSSION!
                                          <singing> I see your true colors shin-ing through......
                                          In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                          A life lived by example, done too soon.