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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Wonder if William Shatner condones these "training methods".

    He drove a BL horse at the WEG opening ceremony in Lexinton.
    Shatner has Saddlebreds. He drove one of his fine-harness horses in the opening ceremony.

    Not even close.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
      Wonder if William Shatner condones these "training methods".

      He drove a BL horse at the WEG opening ceremony in Lexington.
      A TWH or a Saddlebred? I always thought he was into saddlebreds (which I also thought were very difficult to sore since they trot, and its much easier to pick up on lameness).

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post
        Shatner has Saddlebreds. He drove one of his fine-harness horses in the opening ceremony.

        Not even close.
        LOL. Sorry about that.

        But aren't they also using some of those "tools" to enhance the stride of the Saddlebreds?

        At one barn I was at, a saddlebred owner always had chains on his horse's feet, even in the stall.
        ************************
        \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

        Comment


        • Wasn't there an incident a few years ago where some high money saddlebreds died (were euthanized) because their pasterns were injected with something very caustic.

          The onwner claimed it had to have been someone trying to put her horses out of commission, but locally everyone thought she had used too much of a soring substance.
          ************************
          \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

          Comment


          • From what I understand one of the favored abuses of the American Saddlebreds is breaking the tails and forcing the horses to wear a tail set to reset the horse tail into the high carriage. They have to wear the tail set mechanism most of their life to maintain the set, which means they are confined to stalls almost all of their lives. This of course as in many abuses applies to horses that are being shown.

            Comment


            • Lightweight chains are used (though I've only seen them used when working the horse). I never saw anything cruel about them. They're loose, light, and literally like the horse wearing a bracelet.
              Caitlin
              *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
              http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

              Comment


              • Ugh...do some research. Tails are NOT broken.
                I'm not a CPA.

                Comment


                • "The Only Real Mistake is the One From Which We Learn Nothing"
                  ~~John Enoch Powell

                  Hello and Shalom Everybody!

                  My COTH history says the last time I posted here was in 2009~~ allot has happened since we last talked, we became empty nesters, grand kids, was invited by the 2010 WEGs to be the Offical Breed Represenatitve of The Tennessee Walking Horse, where we introduced to the world Dressage En Gait...alright..now..we don't need to go there people ~~~BIG BELLY LAUGH!!! (Old timers would know what I am referring to)

                  At the same time campagined against The Padded Horses, who had our Breed's Registry, The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhititors Association (TWHBEA) deposit check returned to them and barred any padded horse or printed material on the WEG show grounds.

                  Ahhh~~~ good times, after develping and introducing Dressage En Gait to The TWH, several other gaited horse breeds have started to introduce with great success this new division.

                  I think the founders of Classical Dressage would be so happy to see and know that their principals, training pyramid, howbeit a hollow gait, but maintans enough of the central principles, training techniques, understanding, relationships and goals as to improve every breed that is blessed enough to have an owner that would seek the best for their horse.

                  Before it starts, understand we NEVER EVER mean to compete against the classical dressage'er, rather competeing amongst themselves and each other.

                  Now what's wrong with that?

                  We sold some of our horses and traveled to Israel~~~ with all this going on we, My girlfriend Jennie and I never ceased our efforts to end the terrible abuse, soring and corruption with this very noble breed.

                  last Friday we were contacted by ABC Investigative Report for Brian Ross on Nightline by a producer. She flew out on Sunday, we interviewed for 5 hours,, it was raining on and off heavy to drizzle.

                  Like the Chattanooga Free Times newspaper a few weeks before. they wanted to know what we thought and how we felt about the abuse, soring and corruption within our breed...never shy for words on this subject, we spoke to them freely.

                  Nightline was going to be featuring the TWHs story, but had a Breaking News of the sad death of Mary Kennedy.

                  This is not advertising, this is simply pointing you to a place where you can watch the entire TV report, and The Humane Society of United State (YEA Wayne Pacelle & Keith Dane, my horses loves you!) under cover Video, but you can go to my website and see it all in one place

                  http://www.walkinonranch.com

                  I would be more than happy to answer any question my friends here have...
                  this is a EVERBODY Thing!

                  Good talkin to ya again

                  The Preacher
                  Champagne Watchout
                  Walkin On Ranch of Cookeville, TN

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                    LOL. Sorry about that.

                    But aren't they also using some of those "tools" to enhance the stride of the Saddlebreds?

                    At one barn I was at, a saddlebred owner always had chains on his horse's feet, even in the stall.
                    ASBs aren't sored. It just doesn't work on a trotting horse.

                    Some trainers will train with chains, yes. But they're for weight/feel and not to hit on the painful areas caused by chemicals being applied to the skin like with a sored TWH. And some trainers don't use chains since some horses just ignore them.

                    Chains on in the stall is just stupid unless they were actuially kicking chains.

                    IDK that anything 100% conclusive ever came out of the Wild Eyed and Wicked case, but if anything skeevy was going on I'd think they were trying to cover up some lamness issues and make the horse go sound in a way that wouldn't show up on a drug test, not lame the horse. Not to mention that if injecting chemicals into the back of the pastern worked, the BL people would be all over it like white on rice.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                      At one barn I was at, a saddlebred owner always had chains on his horse's feet, even in the stall.
                      I'm guessing these were actually kick chains. There would be no other reason for them to be on in the stall.
                      I'm not a CPA.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by asb2517 View Post
                        Ugh...do some research. Tails are NOT broken.
                        But..but..but..research requires effort. And thinking!!!

                        Much easier to just keep repeating a myth.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rapaloosa View Post
                          From what I understand one of the favored abuses of the American Saddlebreds is breaking the tails and forcing the horses to wear a tail set to reset the horse tail into the high carriage. They have to wear the tail set mechanism most of their life to maintain the set, which means they are confined to stalls almost all of their lives. This of course as in many abuses applies to horses that are being shown.
                          I wondered how long this would take. Not that ASB peeps are perfect and nothing questionable is ever done to ASB show horses (much like any other discipline), but these soring BL techniques are NOT used on ASBs. As someone else said, soring would be obvious as they have to trot and it would be easily seen.

                          I grew up riding at and occasionally showing with a top ASB barn. While I no longer do SS (switched to dressage ), I assure you that nothing like what was shown in that video ever happened there or at any of the barns I was ever in.

                          Tails are not "broken". Ligaments are cut/nicked (once) to allow the tail to be set. The tail set harness is not what keeps them from being turned out. They are kept in weighted shoes and if one were to come off, it would probably take a good deal of the hoof off with it. Not saying this is a good thing, just that it's what it is. Some barns take shoes off in the winter and the horse is turned out normally. We kids also took the horses out and handgrazed them after every ride and the horses were perfectly content and not "crazy" or unmanageable in the least.

                          So the ASB world may have it's own issues, but not anywhere close to the blatant abuse of the BL. And, BTW, I saw lots of happy, sound ASBs in their teens and twenties, including many still showing and in lesson programs.
                          Caitlin
                          *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                          Comment


                          • Shatner is into ASBs and Standardbred Trotters as ridden/driven as Road Horses, he's not into TWHs.

                            Shatner's horses Calamar Man and All Glory are definitely Standardbreds.
                            ~ Shannon Hayden ~

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post
                              But..but..but..research requires effort. And thinking!!!

                              Much easier to just keep repeating a myth.
                              So so true. I usually try to stay away from any TWH thread as invariably Saddlebreds get dragged into the conversation.
                              I'm not a CPA.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post

                                Chains on in the stall is just stupid unless they were actuially kicking chains.

                                .
                                What's a kicking chain?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                                  What's a kicking chain?
                                  Ah, the power of Google. http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_be...ll_kicking.htm
                                  Caitlin
                                  *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
                                  http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01

                                  Comment


                                  • Sorry to have taken this off topic.

                                    Obviously I am not too familiar with either the TWH or Saddlebred world.

                                    What was shown in the video is beyond sick and I hope some heads will roll.
                                    ************************
                                    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Howdy Preacher ! Glad you found our little corner !

                                      ASB folks, please please please can we stay on topic? You dont have a dog in this fight. This is our chance to make a change for some very abused horses. If you need to explain that the 2 breeds are totally different in their movement, training and treatment....... im asking as a personal favor that you open a new thread. I know it grinds you to be lumped with BL TWHs and rightly so, but please dont make it so people have to read through more posts to get to on topic conversation.

                                      Thank you in advance.
                                      from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                        ASB folks, please please please can we stay on topic? You dont have a dog in this fight. This is our chance to make a change for some very abused horses. If you need to explain that the 2 breeds are totally different in their movement, training and treatment....... im asking as a personal favor that you open a new thread. I know it grinds you to be lumped with BL TWHs and rightly so, but please dont make it so people have to read through more posts to get to on topic conversation.

                                        Thank you in advance.
                                        There are multiple threads on this Forum about ASBs and expelling the myths. Yet every. single. time a thread about TWH horses comes up, the ASB peeps get lumped together with the BL TWHs with someone spouting misinformation.

                                        As the owner of an amazing, sound, never been sored, former show saddlebred, I do not want to be lumped into ANY category with the Big Lick TWH. Ever.

                                        Now back to the topic at hand...

                                        ETA: You'd think as "gung ho" as you are about the NYC Carriage Horse cause, you'd want the ASB peeps to continue fighting misinformation about the speculation of abuse like the BL TWH. I would think you'd understand that.
                                        Dreaming in Color

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by bayou_bengal View Post
                                          You do realize, don't you, that most of the judges are also professional trainers who belong to the Walking Horse Trainers Association, don't you?

                                          That is how it works- one hand washes the other. Trainer A may be judging Trainer B's horse at a show this weekend and NEXT weekend Tranier B will be the Judge and Trainer A will be showing in front of him.


                                          Do you really expect these trainers/ judges to police themselves? Some of the guys who work as farriers are also qualified to sit as DQPs. Or at least, it was that way when we had walkers. I believe the McConnells have been officers of that WHTA several times in several positions of leadership. I believe they both hold SHOW judge's cards as well.
                                          This makes my head spin.
                                          from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                          Comment

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