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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Original Poster

    Here is the public realations firm that THWSO has hired to help them clean up their image.

    http://www.purplestrategies.com/

    Having board members with no HPA violations would have been a good idea, but oh well.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

    Comment


    • Here's a new twist on an old political joke:
      Q. How do you tell a BL big wig is lying?
      A. His lips are moving.

      The performance industry over the decades has repeatedly publicly defended itself with three major lines of thought:
      1) "Soring is only done by a 'few bad apples' because to achieve the gait you don't have to sore."
      2) "We have made changes that are cleaning up the sport."
      3) "This is a big money, huge economic impact sport to the state of Tennessee."

      The talking points crib sheet hasn't changed in over 30 years!

      When you hear someone spout an excuse under option 1 you think, "Lies, lies, and more lies." When you hear some spout an excuse from option 2 you think, "Lies, lies and more lies." And yet, when you hear an excuse from option 3 everyone of you believe it like it's gospel. You don't even think to question it!

      If I were running this as an advocacy issue campaign and actually had a budget the first thing I do is hire a public policy research group to investigate the economic impact of the WH industry. (I'm happy to recommend a very good one if anyone is interested.)

      As a start, I would make sure I didn't use Tn Dept of Ag summaries and conclusions, but instead go back to their original raw data. Not that I think the Ag Department is lying exactly, but I have certainly seen numbers manipulated and massaged by other state agencies to a point that they are no longer representative of reality. And consider this, in general it is to the advantage of the State Ag Dept to overstate the importance of any Ag industry, and specifically they would not want to see any damage to the TWH industry. Just don't assume they are your friend or that they have a neutral position. (This is not to say their aren't some good people employed there that want to see soring end, but ending it will be damn inconvenient even if they believe it's the right thing to do.)

      And then there are the numbers from the Celebration (the venue) that you believe and the numbers from the city of Shelbyville/Benton Co. you believe. Is there anybody out there that doesn't have a pro BL position who has economic numbers?

      From my earlier posts you know I think that the economic impact is that last hurdle for a significant legislative/government move. The point here is to show that the "economic defense" is the last leg the industry has to stand on as well. Understanding the truth of it could be a very effective step.

      Now to be clear I don't think research would show an insignificant impact, but I'm pretty certain it's not what they claim. The shifting demographics of the rural to exurban and rural to suburban mean that the geographic area of this impact is getting smaller and smaller. There are also some basic numbers that I've seen reported that and as someone involved in other horse sports don't seem impressively "big money." If I'm right and you can show with good numbers that the impact is smaller than what they've told us you've done two things, made the economic impact road block smaller and publicly shown them to be liars one more time. Both things are very damaging! Even if it's all as they claim when fighting a political/PR battle it is pretty basic to confirm the veracity of the numbers and facts that your adversary is using!

      Just remember the next time you hear someone from the industry talk about how important the WH is to the economy that their lips are moving!!



      I have some other thoughts (and some questions!) about the "big money" issue if anybody is interested, but those will have to wait...
      Last edited by subk; Jul. 7, 2012, 09:33 AM. Reason: Because my proof reading is bad a anytime, but really bad at 1 am.

      Comment


      • Then let the law making begin.

        Great post & work subk.

        I hope you get the job - takes great skills to negotiate and navigate this political stuff.
        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
          I hope you get the job.
          Don't want it. Even though there is a lot of cross over of ideas, this isn't within the niche I usually work or feel called to be involved in, but I'm happy to share my insights from a local political perspective. Maybe someone can find them valuable.

          Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
          Here is the public realations firm that THWSO has hired to help them clean up their image.

          http://www.purplestrategies.com/
          fyi, this is not your basic PR firm that pimps nice stories to the local media to help you fluff up your pulbic image. This is a PR firm that specializes in PR as it relates to political advocacy and purpose.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            i saw that on their webpage. TWSHO has hired the big dogs.

            As far as the lawsuit against the USDA, SHOW tried to get a temporary restraining order to keep the new mandates from going into effect but the judge denied it.

            IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
            NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
            FORT WORTH DIVISION
            SHOW, INC., et al. §
            §
            VS. § CIVIL ACTION NO. 4:12-CV-429-Y
            §
            UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT §
            OF AGRICULTURE §
            RESTRAINING ORDER AND ACCELERATING TRIAL ON THE MERITS
            Before the Court is Plaintiffs’ motion for a temporary restraining
            order (“TRO”) (doc. 1). After review, the Court concludes that the
            motion should be, and is hereby, DENIED. Plaintiffs have not
            demonstrated a substantial likelihood of success on the merits, and the
            balance of hardships and public-interest factors counsel against the
            granting of a TRO. Moreover, in the Court’s view, any risk of
            irreparable harm facing Plaintiffs is unlikely to befall them prior to
            the Court’s resolution of the merits of their claims.
            That said, in accordance with Federal Rule of Civil Procedure
            65(a)(2), the Court concludes that trial on the merits should be, and
            is hereby, ADVANCED and CONSOLIDATED with the hearing on Plaintiffs’
            request for a preliminary injunction, which shall take place on Monday,
            July 16, 2012, at 10:00 a.m. A memorandum opinion on the Court’s
            denial of Plaintiffs’ TRO motion, along with a full scheduling order
            concerning the July 16 trial, will be issued early next week.
            SIGNED July 6, 2012.
            ____________________________
            TERRY R. MEANS
            UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Business owners and residents encouraged to buy and display this $40 sign picturing a BL. Pic of sign at website.

              http://www.walkinghorsechat.com/wp/2...ty-support-day

              The Walking Horse Trainers Association would like to declare July 10, 2012 as “Bedford County Support Day.” The Tennessee Walking Horse industry has always been a positive influence on the economy of Shelbyville and Bedford County. At this time, the industry would like to ask for the merchants of Shelbyville to please help keep the industry viable.

              Due to recent negative national publicity, the industry has hired a very noted public relations firm to better communicate the progress that is being made in the welfare of our horses. Also, in an effort to stop abuse and prove our horses are sound, the “Trainers’ Enforcement Initiative” was put in place on June 15, 2012. This initiative utilizes gas chromatography-mass spectrometry technology to ensure our horses are sound. This initiative is very costly but a small price to pay to ensure the welfare of our horses and the livelihood of those that train those horses and the community of Shelbyville that relies so heavily on them.

              On July 10, 2012, members of the Trainers’ Association and supporters of the Tennessee Walking Horse will be making rounds to all of the merchants in Shelbyville to solicit their support by purchasing a sign to be displayed in windows, yards, porches, etc. We are asking all training facilities, residents and businesses to please display a sign of support.

              The sign reads “Proud Sponsor of the Tennessee Walking Horse Industry.” The price of the sign is $40. All of the money will go directly to the industry and its efforts to ensure the welfare of the horse. Call in advance and have your sign delivered early. You may contact the Walking Horse Trainers Association at (931) 684-5866 or whtrainers@gmail.com.

              The Walking Horse industry depends on Bedford County and the city of Shelbyville and thus Bedford County and Shelbyville depend on the Walking Horse industry. Without the Tennessee Walking Horse, the economy of Bedford County would be devastated resulting in declining real estate values, fewer tax revenues, failing businesses, higher rates of unemployment, and higher crime rates. Please do what you can to support us in this endeavor on July 10, 2012 by purchasing and displaying your support sign.

              We sincerely thank you for your support and for all you do as merchants and citizens to support our great horse and our proud tradition.
              from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Doyle Meadows talking about the Calsonic and the upcoming activities there.
                The Shelbyville Times-Gazette will be featuring a weekly column by Meadows.

                http://www.t-g.com/story/1867249.html
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                Comment


                • I believe the WHI depends on Bedford Cty,and Shelbyville,and i also believe that Bedford Cty and Shelbyville could put an END to the Soring of the tn walking horse.just by telling the WHTA No to the 40.00 sign. until you stop the abuse we will not support you. this would trully make the differance.

                  Now this will impact the county and the city for those 10 days,but than Tom Boyle will have MOTOR CROSS or something maybe a mini horse show. look at the CALSONICARENA.COM
                  Meadows and others( Godfather Mullins) want you and i to believe that its only the TWH that keeps this county and City on its feet.

                  If you believe that i have a bridge i would like to sell in the Majave Desert.just joking

                  Comment


                  • Will someone please tell me the numbers? i.e. How MANY BL horses are entered in Celebration? How many BL owners also own and show lite shod?

                    2011 stated 4000 TWH's entered for the ten days. Very respectable

                    Why then, haven't the lite shod plantation and pleasure riders stopped going until the industry cleaned up the BL fiasco?

                    It would appear that those in plantation, lite shod have supported the BL agenda as they have never organized and refused to go for one year.

                    Guess ribbons mean a lot to everyone...not just the big and wealthy
                    The Elephant in the room

                    Comment


                    • Fairfax - have you heard of the National Walking Horse Association?

                      IOW they are already split off from BL.
                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                      Comment


                      • I have only heard of them..don't know anything (that is obvious by many of my posts). Just wondering why the plantation, lite shod and others have not refused to enter Celebration as long as BL is there. IF there was a sudden drop from 4000 horses to 750-1000 that would say a lot more than any thing else
                        The Elephant in the room

                        Comment


                        • The place to go get this sort of deeper info might be the Walking Horse CHat that is linked up above with the "We support BL poster"

                          I joined that forum once just to try and see what the heck were they thinking. WHile there I was shocked to read several folks posting how to get rid of scars and such on pasterns.

                          But if you go there and just read - you might find out what you are wanting to know. If you ask questions, well ... they will start coming for your IP address.

                          I do not know if the National Walking Horse Association folks have a forum. So I could not direct you to them.

                          But Walking Horse CHat is all about the stacks and chains.
                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                          Comment


                          • i will say it again: NWHA moved north because the DQP process of inspecting horses does not reliably catch the sored horses. So they ran off to OH rather than stay in the cesspool that is TN. Scott McGregor called TN a cesspool, not me. I'm just paraphrasing.

                            NWHA, if your inspection process is perfect,and catches sored horses reliably...then stay in WH county and have your National show. If you are afraid sored horses are going to get past your inspectors and make fools out of you....and your show secretary doesn't have time to check horses in AND run off to the DQP to tell him who to check harder than anyone else on the grounds... by all means...head north.

                            Comment


                            • Again..my question is: Why did the plantation, flat shod group just refuse to go to Celebration. If there were 4000 horses and the BL is only 5% by some and 10 by others...losing 3300 would have brought the show to its knees years ago.

                              I have never met a plantation owner/breeder/exhibitor who did not have a poor opinion of BL....I would have thought there would be a boycott..

                              There must be some reason the show continues and those who hate BL just look the other way and complain to each other.

                              No one would be able to threaten the plantation / lite shod group if they refused to enter...so why has that NEVER happened?
                              The Elephant in the room

                              Comment


                              • Because those who work with BL horses aren't the only supporters of the BL. I've met a few natural TWH show people and follow several gaited forums and there's a lot more support for the BL than you think. Everyone's against soring, but a lot of people see nothing wrong with the chains and stacks, even if that's not how they ride.

                                BTW, I'm against all of it, even if a horse isn't sored, severely altering the horse's movement is harmful to the horse.


                                Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                Again..my question is: Why did the plantation, flat shod group just refuse to go to Celebration. If there were 4000 horses and the BL is only 5% by some and 10 by others...losing 3300 would have brought the show to its knees years ago.

                                I have never met a plantation owner/breeder/exhibitor who did not have a poor opinion of BL....I would have thought there would be a boycott..

                                There must be some reason the show continues and those who hate BL just look the other way and complain to each other.

                                No one would be able to threaten the plantation / lite shod group if they refused to enter...so why has that NEVER happened?
                                In memory of Apache, who loved to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZAqeg7HyE

                                Comment


                                • The spin is alive and well. Hard for me to talk in these circles. Not sure why it is brought into this discussion. ANd I am sure the circle talk makes some find solace in their support of not shutting down the stacked and chained horse.

                                  But not so for me.

                                  Simple matter is the stacked and chained walking and racking horse is grotesque. Only two ways to get this gait - you sore them or stack them. And Mr McConnell has proven that yes you can sore a horse and win a WGC right under the nose of the DQP, HPA, APHIS etc etc. And regardless of the "technology" used to detect it - they need not sore the horse at the show cause the "training" and "conditioning" was done at home. ANd as long as they do not scar the - they will continue to get away with this.

                                  Remember McConnell was winning even when suspended.

                                  Now IMO you can to a degree weight a shoe or pad a foot and enhance a gait, a trot etc etc. The mechanics can be dicked with and not necessarily make the gait labored and grotesque. The entire saddlebred and most of the saddle seat industry is based on perfecting this mechanic. This very discussion is in the **FEI rules for the saddlebred. Not sure about the other saddleseat breeds. But for the ASB, when the mechanics of the gait become labored and with effort - they are not tied.

                                  TWH lost sight of this in their effort for higher and higher and deeper and deeper. They do not see thay have crossed a very real and broad line.
                                  Last edited by hurleycane; Jul. 8, 2012, 09:51 PM. Reason: * * * Should be USEF - not FEI
                                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Malda View Post
                                    Because those who work with BL horses aren't the only supporters of the BL. I've met a few natural TWH show people and follow several gaited forums and there's a lot more support for the BL than you think. Everyone's against soring, but a lot of people see nothing wrong with the chains and stacks, even if that's not how they ride.

                                    BTW, I'm against all of it, even if a horse isn't sored, severely altering the horse's movement is harmful to the horse.
                                    The broader support for the BL horse has been the fact since Sports Illustrated ran their first expose' in the '50s. It's why the Sore Lick remains viable to this day. It's also why it's unlikely to "go away" just because Pepsi and Ford pull out of the Celebration.

                                    The BL is the "tip of an iceberg." If you go to the Plantation and Lightshod divisions you'll find just as many sored-up animals as in the Performance Division. Right now the "spotlight" in the BL process, but it's a symptom, not the disease. The disease is the quest for the Big Lick gait. As long as that gait puts bums in seats (and the other Divisions do not) it won't go away.

                                    G.
                                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                    Comment


                                    • A good read on soring and "those chains" (re: Playboy) -

                                      http://www.ellislawgrp.com/article11...rotection.html
                                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                        A good read on soring and "those chains" (re: Playboy) -

                                        http://www.ellislawgrp.com/article11...rotection.html
                                        Thanks for posting. More good exposure.

                                        Comment


                                        • I an finally getting an understanding. Only a few of the TWH owners/exhibitor/riders make noise about soring. Out of 4000 at a show, maybe 350 don't like the soring and BL and the others support it by their attendance and entry fees.

                                          So the 25 on this forum who are adamently against BL are actually in the minority by a long shot.

                                          I have dealt with breeders of ASB's in Tennessee and I can assure you they are not like the trash with homes on wheels MENTALITY that seem to be attracted to the TWH.

                                          I would suggest those trying to get this stopped call the NEW YORK TIMES with documentation of threats against those who try and stop it...foxes in control of the hen house i.e. inspectors not doing their job and maybe even bribery...get them to read the book about the murder...let them really know a seedy side. Who knows...you might get the north to rally on your behalf
                                          The Elephant in the room

                                          Comment

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