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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
    TN residents that feel strongly on this issue should be writing their State reps. and urging stronger action.
    The problem is no one wants to define "stronger action" in terms of real and doable legislative action. So far all anyone has encouraged is for contact. Telling a legislator "this is bad, change it" is helpful in terms of supporting existing legislation, but at the moment that legislation doesn't exist.

    Here's the deal with state legislators. (I am involved in politics in TN, but this is probably the case in any state.) Most of the people who are state legislators are so because they have been successful in their communities doing something OTHER than politics. They are part time legislators with a part time salary, under staffed and in most cases without fiscal means to do research. The majority are well intentioned individuals who do want to the right thing. Some are very bright and disappointing number not so bright.

    If you want them to change something the most proficient way to do so if provide them with access to research as well as (sound) bite facts that they can use for political cover and then spell out an actionable plan. Actionable being a very important element. Trust me, you don't want legislators to come up with a plan on their own.

    So COTHers, what's the doable legislative action?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by katarine View Post
      Um, no. He is a good soul, that horse: but he's not a great TWH. And he's not sired any great TWHs. Sorry, but he hasn't.
      I wonder just how many high dollar quality mares have been brought to his court, Not many I bet because his owners have not toed the party line and have had the nerve to challenge the BL hegemony.

      THAT is how it works, you know, or should know, katarine. Buck the system and they "freeze you out." And probably most of the horses he has sired have not been shown in the shows where all the BL people control everything anyway.

      Looking at his pedigree- there isn't any reason to expect him NOT be be a "great" sire-- he has Midnight Sun as a great-grandsire, which is pretty "close up" for a horse sired in 1993 He has MS showing again further back on another line, too.

      He also shows Society Man, owned by Steve Hill on his papers. Also shows The Super Stock, Ebony's Senator, Ebony Masterpiece, Mack K's Handshaker, Johnny Midnight, John A's Chance and other "known walkers" on the papers. He shows Wilson's Allen twice on the papers too and has some Merry Boy and Merry Go Boy in his background as well as a good dose of Dement-bred horses.

      If I were still breeding, I would take a chance on him as a sire any day.

      Perhaps The Preacher can name some of his get who have distinguished themselves in the show ring. I have not kept up with anything TWHBEA since about 1992-- a year before Watchout was foaled.

      Comment


      • The following press release was issued this afternoon: USDA Publishes Final Rule to Provide Greater Protection for HorsesAction Will Require Horse Industry Organizations to Assess Minimum Penalties for Violationshttp://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/2012/06/hpa_finalrule.shtml

        Comment


        • Originally posted by bayou_bengal View Post
          I wonder just how many high dollar quality mares have been brought to his court, Not many I bet because his owners have not toed the party line and have had the nerve to challenge the BL hegemony.

          THAT is how it works, you know, or should know, katarine. Buck the system and they "freeze you out." And probably most of the horses he has sired have not been shown in the shows where all the BL people control everything anyway.

          Looking at his pedigree- there isn't any reason to expect him NOT be be a "great" sire-- he has Midnight Sun as a great-grandsire, which is pretty "close up" for a horse sired in 1993 He has MS showing again further back on another line, too.

          He also shows Society Man, owned by Steve Hill on his papers. Also shows The Super Stock, Ebony's Senator, Ebony Masterpiece, Mack K's Handshaker, Johnny Midnight, John A's Chance and other "known walkers" on the papers. He shows Wilson's Allen twice on the papers too and has some Merry Boy and Merry Go Boy in his background as well as a good dose of Dement-bred horses.

          If I were still breeding, I would take a chance on him as a sire any day.

          Perhaps The Preacher can name some of his get who have distinguished themselves in the show ring. I have not kept up with anything TWHBEA since about 1992-- a year before Watchout was foaled.
          Well said, and right on!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bayou_bengal View Post
            GIVE IT A REST, FAIRFAX

            You have bee posting, and I assume reading this thread long enough to know what is being talked about. Quit trying to derail the conversation and turn all the attention on you and YOUR breed.

            This thread is about TWHS.

            P. S. No reply is needed.
            I find it so sad that you believe miopic thinking will solve your problems. THIS is why there will be more traffic to COTH and many will want to know what is happening without having to read so many posts.

            Lexington, Kentucky - The United Professional Horsemen’s Association (UPHA) hopes that everyone is enjoying a great start to the 2012 show season. Please note that there is a possibility that the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) will be attending and observing at several of the American Saddlebred, Morgan and Hackney Pony horse shows across the country.

            As you meet and greet these Federal employees please be kind and courteous and represent our breeds with the class they deserve.

            This is ONLY the start. Everyone will be tarnished with the Big Lick brush. I appreciate your passion towards the subject even after removing yourself from TWH breeding and shows decades ago. Things have changed since your departure from the show ring.

            Now ALL BREEDS and ALL EXHIBITORS come under scrutiny from the watchful public.

            If you are even hoping for a small kernel of success with your soring of BL TWH's then you are going to need the support of other breeds and breeders/exhibitors.

            When there is no money in the coffers for the HSUS, they will move on...so why not work with others without that huge chip on your shoulder?
            The Elephant in the room

            Comment


            • Many TWH's have classes provided for them at Saddlebred/Morgan shows. If the TWH brings negative publicity to the shows offering plantation and flat shod classes (the public don't know there is a difference between BL and Flat), then they may boycott the shows OR include the other breeds with the TW and BL..RESULT: No more TW classes will be offered.

              I think OTHER breeds do have an impact on the TWH
              The Elephant in the room

              Comment


              • I just don't see anything negative in having a plantation /flat shod class at a ASB/Morgan show,this only helps the public see/or at least question what the BL folks do to the TWH breed.

                As far as the USDA at ABS/Morgan shows not to worry if ya ani't doin nothin wrong smile and wave.if ya are load your horse and take'm home.and clean up your act.

                its THE HORSE PROTECTION ACT not the TWH PROTECTION ACT, its just the TWH that is so brutily abused,

                Comment


                • MY GOODNESS OF LIFE!!!! My mama would say

                  I have been trying to keep up with y'all and every other arena I am in..

                  Let me say something here...I am all over the world in different clubs, orgs, groups and living rooms...

                  Not slamming or degrading anyone else when I say this

                  THIS group CHRONICLES OF THE HORSE ~~~aka COTH is the most highly equine educated group of people....oh, please don't beat me up with that statement by copying, cutting and pasting somewhere else just to show me out..

                  This to point out ~~~~remind you of what this group, as I see it~~~ is all about

                  I don't think there is a horse, or breed of horse that get trashed here..~~~~

                  What all the back and forth aruging and discussions are about ... are the people who own those horses, the things they do, the things they don't do the things they should do...

                  From Blooding letting, Rollkur, Pads and Chains, Soring, Abuse or any of the plethora of deeds, practices, attitudes or shoe size that us as individuals like, dislike, defend or attack~~~~

                  We all have preferences. I use the preference link on my puter all the time make things just the way I want them. Would not that be awesome if we could hit a preference button on humans!!!!

                  I said all that to say this…YOU would not be here after more than three trips IF you did not have a love for this wonderful animal…

                  Your eyes, your eyes, will tell you almost all truths..When I went back in 1998-1999 I kept singing a song in my head as to what I wanted to accomplish

                  A group called “Undisputed Truth” had song called “Smiling Faces” and in it they sang..”The truth is in the eyes cause the eyes don’t lie..Amen!”

                  Your eyes told you as soon as they locked onto that video..This is not right!

                  Now, here’s where things get contentious…your brain now processes that truth the eyes just sent to it then that information depending on how YOU want to spin it..goes to the mouth and then you open it!

                  COTH has the strength to impact the whole of the equine world..let me say that again..COTH has the strength to impact the whole of the equine world!

                  This is about one single issue..THE ABUSE, SORING AND CORRUPTION in one of our sister breeds…

                  What my horse has done or not done is not the focus..pick up that axe handle leaning there against your leg at the ready and let’s go after that!

                  Once I took this body of mine that many in my own country had no use for..and put into service of my country for WHAT I BELIEVED….I knew what that meant..I already had gone to classmates funerals that had done this before me..so my eyes were wide open

                  When I showed back then…my eyes were again wide open and more than that..my family also understood and wanted to be a part of “Daddy’s Platoon”

                  Now they are all grown up…I now have 4 girls wanting to go into that class…I am trying to find horses, and money to give them that opportunity..clothes, horse stuff, shoeing, all the show stuff you all know in order to go into your breed’s World Grand Championship Class…entry fees, qualifying class and then the WGC… $2,130.00

                  YOUR job? Writing those letters, to everyone we can put out here that may have some impact on changing the status quo~~~~ getting each other’s back..not sticking things into them…

                  As a collective group…dang, what you could accomplish..

                  THAT’S why I come here dagnabbit!

                  If we The Jackson's are willing to once again go into that lion’s den to change the world perception of this breed…get behind me! if you can’t go with me..write them letters, tell your friends to write then, it even if you gotta compose one for them…

                  If you can, put your butt in one of them seats there..shoot,..box seats are being rented very cheaply..so you and 5 of your friends can go down there, sip champagne and watch history be made

                  Shoot help us with a slogan, theme for tee shirts all of the same color ..dang it let’s turn this mutha out!

                  Take the lead where you should be!

                  Comment


                  • One more thing...I lay in bed at night with the french doors open

                    ..I can hear my grass and weeds out there laughing at me and partying it up..because I have not been able to get off this dang puter and go out there and deal with them!

                    Just wanted to share

                    Comment


                    • A very nice, very sound, 100% compliant horse. His trainer, Hannah Pulvers, does not appear on the HPA list. She has no skeletons. She just knows how to select and develop talented horses.

                      http://youtu.be/IONmsxgmfHk

                      another

                      http://youtu.be/4XMmrSmD_bg

                      http://youtu.be/rf9x_ZDPZnU

                      There are 82 videos of Hannah's horses on youtube. Enjoy. That's a sound, honest, delightful set of naturally gaited and well ridden sound TWHs.

                      If Nathaniel Jackson can point out CW's stellar career on the rail, or his amazing progeny, I'm all ears. In the meanwhile, I'm trying to find it myself.


                      Notice the lack of push from behind, hardly any headshake, and tension in the walking gaits. Not the goal or the desired look for a TWH.

                      http://youtu.be/geiLzmUGIYs


                      http://youtu.be/npJRFu7M1Ks


                      I don't have a TWH good enough to put out there at the Celebration in the padded class to 'prove a point'. I have three pretty nice trail geldings, and one of them doubles as a dressage horse. This is not about my horses. It's about making a mockery of what CW actually IS, by putting him out there to make a point: A pretty decent, nice minded horse with less than stellar or exemplary walking gaits.

                      I would add this: If you were going to 'show 'em how it's really done!' wouldn't you endeavor to take an amazing horse, a horse that best exemplifies the ideal ______ horse? Are you going to take a Derby contender, or a 3K claimer from Penn National?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
                        One more thing...I lay in bed at night with the french doors open

                        ..I can hear my grass and weeds out there laughing at me and partying it up..because I have not been able to get off this dang puter and go out there and deal with them!

                        Just wanted to share
                        God Bless you, sir! I'd march behind you into ANY battle!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
                          MY GOODNESS OF LIFE!!!! My mama would say

                          I have been trying to keep up with y'all and every other arena I am in..

                          Let me say something here...I am all over the world in different clubs, orgs, groups and living rooms...

                          Not slamming or degrading anyone else when I say this

                          THIS group CHRONICLES OF THE HORSE ~~~aka COTH is the most highly equine educated group of people....oh, please don't beat me up with that statement by copying, cutting and pasting somewhere else just to show me out..

                          This to point out ~~~~remind you of what this group, as I see it~~~ is all about

                          I don't think there is a horse, or breed of horse that get trashed here..~~~~

                          What all the back and forth aruging and discussions are about ... are the people who own those horses, the things they do, the things they don't do the things they should do...

                          From Blooding letting, Rollkur, Pads and Chains, Soring, Abuse or any of the plethora of deeds, practices, attitudes or shoe size that us as individuals like, dislike, defend or attack~~~~

                          We all have preferences. I use the preference link on my puter all the time make things just the way I want them. Would not that be awesome if we could hit a preference button on humans!!!!

                          I said all that to say this…YOU would not be here after more than three trips IF you did not have a love for this wonderful animal…

                          Your eyes, your eyes, will tell you almost all truths..When I went back in 1998-1999 I kept singing a song in my head as to what I wanted to accomplish

                          A group called “Undisputed Truth” had song called “Smiling Faces” and in it they sang..”The truth is in the eyes cause the eyes don’t lie..Amen!”

                          Your eyes told you as soon as they locked onto that video..This is not right!

                          Now, here’s where things get contentious…your brain now processes that truth the eyes just sent to it then that information depending on how YOU want to spin it..goes to the mouth and then you open it!

                          COTH has the strength to impact the whole of the equine world..let me say that again..COTH has the strength to impact the whole of the equine world!

                          This is about one single issue..THE ABUSE, SORING AND CORRUPTION in one of our sister breeds…

                          What my horse has done or not done is not the focus..pick up that axe handle leaning there against your leg at the ready and let’s go after that!

                          Once I took this body of mine that many in my own country had no use for..and put into service of my country for WHAT I BELIEVED….I knew what that meant..I already had gone to classmates funerals that had done this before me..so my eyes were wide open

                          When I showed back then…my eyes were again wide open and more than that..my family also understood and wanted to be a part of “Daddy’s Platoon”

                          Now they are all grown up…I now have 4 girls wanting to go into that class…I am trying to find horses, and money to give them that opportunity..clothes, horse stuff, shoeing, all the show stuff you all know in order to go into your breed’s World Grand Championship Class…entry fees, qualifying class and then the WGC… $2,130.00

                          YOUR job? Writing those letters, to everyone we can put out here that may have some impact on changing the status quo~~~~ getting each other’s back..not sticking things into them…

                          As a collective group…dang, what you could accomplish..

                          THAT’S why I come here dagnabbit!

                          If we The Jackson's are willing to once again go into that lion’s den to change the world perception of this breed…get behind me! if you can’t go with me..write them letters, tell your friends to write then, it even if you gotta compose one for them…

                          If you can, put your butt in one of them seats there..shoot,..box seats are being rented very cheaply..so you and 5 of your friends can go down there, sip champagne and watch history be made

                          Shoot help us with a slogan, theme for tee shirts all of the same color ..dang it let’s turn this mutha out!

                          Take the lead where you should be!
                          I understand that you are considering entering the Stake class at the Celebration in Shellbyville Tn this August. Any truth to that? Just curious.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
                            MY GOODNESS OF LIFE!!!! !
                            I have seen some posts by thetrainerlady. I am curious if this is you and if so why the gender and name change. These posts are "signed" as "The Preacher". Was that you posting as "thetrainerlady"?
                            Perhaps your wife is a preacher too? I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part but both use "The Preacher.

                            I have a few questions for you but I am unsure if you have already answered them as thetraininglady. One of the thetraininglady posts is signed "Nathanael Jackson".


                            thetrainerlady
                            http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/member.php?u=89922

                            http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...27#post2673927
                            http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...90#post2629090
                            http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=114462


                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                            thetrainerlady
                            Training Level

                            Join Date: Mar. 31, 2005
                            Location: Middle Tennessee
                            Posts: 29

                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by buckeyerev
                            IMHO, you just like stirring up trouble. Very unbecoming to a preacher. A man of God is usually a bit more "humble". BTW, where did you earn your divinity degree?


                            Originally posted by thetrainerlady View Post
                            Tell me...you must go to one of them "Feel Good churches" with the description of what you decribed as what preachers are suppose be like...letsee...John The Baptist, Moses, Paul, Peter, Samuel, Nathan and even Jesus all come to points when they had to raise their voices, speak harshly and REBUKE! the people...what does the word rebuke mean to you?...

                            Why does the shepheard carry the staff? The Bible says it's to ward of threats and ALSO for correction of the sheep....

                            Why does a parent, spank a child? For correction and guidance...MY daddy used to whoop us and while beatin my butt he used to say "I"m gonna beat you now so the man with the badge and gun don't have to beat you later!"

                            My license to preach?.....THE TRUTH!.....besides my daddy was a Preacher....and I am my father's son.....

                            The Preacher
                            +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                            thetrainerlady


                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by cordial
                            I would klike to ask the Preacher after showing his CW stud in the big stake, how many contracts for stud fees did you get??? That was the whole point of doing what you did----free advertising!!!!

                            Originally posted by thetrainerlady View Post
                            FREE ADVERTISING!!!! I wish to God it was free....have you ever paid $2006.00 for an entry fee that you KNEW you would not get back?...How bout just the qualifying fee of $106.00?
                            There has been nothing free in any of what I did,...you know what i could have done with that money having five kids?...I rely on God who tells me that he will provide for me my daily bread to take care of me and mine....but if you ever get to a place that something before you is bigger than what you want to do...you'll understand the sacrifice....

                            If any of you have ever seen us pull up to a show, you'll see we come in a 1996 Chevy truck with 245,000 miles on it and the wear and tear of shuffling kids around in it for years.....our trailer...an old home made trailer made in 1994...we aren't rich except in spirit.....we struggle every day to keep our heads above water, like everyone else

                            The thing is you can't punch holes in the light...you can punch holes in the dark with light...but the reverse is almost impossible to do....next you'll be tellin me that my shoes were improper...you'll wanna know if I wear boxers or briefs?...It's futile to try to find that "something" that will make all these good people say..."Hey! they were right! What they do is alright!"
                            The Preacher
                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                            thetrainerlady

                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by cordial
                            Mr. Jackson,
                            Could you please tell me how your Stallion CW placed at the International??? Just curious
                            Originally posted by thetrainerlady View Post
                            Any horse can be beat on any night, in any show, in any class..those that measure the horse's or rider's value based on ribbons are setting themselves up for a great fall, that's why so many people leave a sport...instead of having fun with it...they are caught up in winning....by me showing my horse in the Celebration I win all around...if my horse is well recieved and cheered for...I win...if my horse and rider gets booed and harassed...I win..because it furthers the idea that a certain side of the issues are mean-spirited
                            and nasty people
                            ...who wants to have sympathy for their cause? It very well could push the fence sitter over to my side of beleiving and/or change the minds of others that may have been on your side

                            So I hope this answers your question in such a way that you understand...not everyone thinks that what is important to you,(placings) is important to them also, and not use a ribbon as a measuring stick of acceptance or value.....that too is subjective to the individual...I drive a Chevy...because Ford out sells Chevy...does that make Chevy a loser? No, it's my opinion of what's important to me

                            Have a blessed day and wonderful time at the upcoming show

                            The Preacher

                            Comment


                            • I second what Katarine said about Hannah Pulvers. I know her personally, she is nice to everyone, and she puts out really nice horses with a systematic approach that brings out their talents. We miss her a lot out here in Oregon, but I am glad she is getting lots of exposure in Tennessee, because I would love to see a well bred, great moving, flat shod horse be the new standard for the breed.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Excuse me as i interrupt your hatefest. Is it constructive ? Does it make you feel good ? Says more about you.

                                Here is the latest about the changes in the HPA. Details will be released tomorrow.


                                http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120605/NEWS/306050055/USDA-moves-toward-mandatory-penalties-horse-soring?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News
                                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                Comment


                                • Who is hating on anyone? Lifesabreeze is a total tool, agreed, and I thought he was banned already.... but he is just quoting Nathaniel. He used to post as the trainer lady...his wife's email 'handle'.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                    Who is hating on anyone? Lifesabreeze is a total tool, agreed, and I thought he was banned already.... but he is just quoting Nathaniel. He used to post as the trainer lady...his wife's email 'handle'.
                                    Why the personal attack? Are you still sore about being wrong that I was not the alter you said I was? If I remember correctly you already apologized to me for that. Or are you just doing some more henpecking and hoping the flock joins in.

                                    I am a she.

                                    Who is hating? The only "hate" I have seen is for the BL trainers that are cruel or for HSUS who only care about money.

                                    Comment


                                    • Does no one remember in, I believe 2007, CW was entered at the Celebration again in an attempt to repeat their previous stunt (yes said stunt)? Why does no one remember? Because it didn't make much of an impact. Oh and he was wearing small pads in order to enter the class next time around.

                                      I've met CW in person. He is a beautiful horse but he cannot win a championship in his own division. Pretty does not equal great. My TWH has great breeding with many of the old greats on paper....doesn't mean he can win a high level class. The one thing that bothers me about CW is he sounded like a freight train with his labored breathing. He is stout, but when I saw him he was also obese and every step was heaving, snorting, and coughing. I think I lost respect when they had him doing carrot stretches in the class lineup and the rider just continued to play with him. There is a difference between not liking a division and being flat out disrespectful.

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                                      • Thought you were a guy. Thought you were banned on 5.23.12.

                                        You were.

                                        Yet you are here.

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                                        • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                          A very nice, very sound, 100% compliant horse. His trainer, Hannah Pulvers, does not appear on the HPA list. She has no skeletons. She just knows how to select and develop talented horses.

                                          http://youtu.be/IONmsxgmfHk

                                          another

                                          http://youtu.be/4XMmrSmD_bg

                                          http://youtu.be/rf9x_ZDPZnU

                                          There are 82 videos of Hannah's horses on youtube. Enjoy. That's a sound, honest, delightful set of naturally gaited and well ridden sound TWHs.

                                          If Nathaniel Jackson can point out CW's stellar career on the rail, or his amazing progeny, I'm all ears. In the meanwhile, I'm trying to find it myself.


                                          Notice the lack of push from behind, hardly any headshake, and tension in the walking gaits. Not the goal or the desired look for a TWH.

                                          http://youtu.be/geiLzmUGIYs


                                          http://youtu.be/npJRFu7M1Ks


                                          I don't have a TWH good enough to put out there at the Celebration in the padded class to 'prove a point'. I have three pretty nice trail geldings, and one of them doubles as a dressage horse. This is not about my horses. It's about making a mockery of what CW actually IS, by putting him out there to make a point: A pretty decent, nice minded horse with less than stellar or exemplary walking gaits.

                                          I would add this: If you were going to 'show 'em how it's really done!' wouldn't you endeavor to take an amazing horse, a horse that best exemplifies the ideal ______ horse? Are you going to take a Derby contender, or a 3K claimer from Penn National?
                                          Watchout is a very versatile horse. The two videos you have in this post show him doing Dressage. If you watch other videos of him, you can see the back end, the shaking he is supposed to do.

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