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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
    Message From Champagne Watchout;

    My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.

    Whatdya think?
    I wouldn't bother, nor would I spend a dime with them UNLESS the stacks of pads, hoofbands and chains have been prohibited and they go back to showing a horse that does agood NATURAL lick, not the ARTIFICIAL "Big Yuck-- as another cother so aptly named the so-called "performance horse" lick.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
      Message From Champagne Watchout;

      My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.

      Whatdya think?
      If it's a super-good comeback, everyone shiny & ready and truly on their best game - absolutely!

      You know how some comebacks go ... eh. Hey, are there some Watchout descendants who could do dear CW proud in that class ??? There's an idea as well!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
        Message From Champagne Watchout;

        My human Nathanael, just asked me what I thought about putting the band back together of Natalie and I showing this year at the Celebration in the World Grand Championship Class.

        Whatdya think?
        Only if you get a major national news team to cover it, (60 Minutes, Nightline) otherwise it matters not to the people who play or those who spectate. Although antagonizing them to do something really stupid would be the awesome, as long as they don't put a hit on you...

        Comment


        • What is the point of showing Watchout again in the WGC class? Frankly, he's not sired any amazing flat shod/lite shod/barefoot show horses, he's just a pretty-colored, thoroughly average to below average, flat shod horse. He hasn't sired squat doodle. He is willing and kind and obviously good natured. But why show him again? To prove what? That you have a horse who isn't competitive in Country or Trail Pleasure?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post
            If it's a super-good comeback, everyone shiny & ready and truly on their best game - absolutely!

            You know how some comebacks go ... eh. Hey, are there some Watchout descendants who could do dear CW proud in that class ??? There's an idea as well!
            Um, no. He is a good soul, that horse: but he's not a great TWH. And he's not sired any great TWHs. Sorry, but he hasn't.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
              There is a legitimate fear of allowing the PETA/HSUS or any of their "fellow travelers" to gain unreasonable authority in the regulation of handling or training livestock. I share this fear. I am also extremely knowledgeable of the sorry history of the Walking Horse industry. A balance needs to be struck. This legislation is a first attempt at striking that balance.

              G.
              In this case, I think the lack of regulation is more empowering to the animal rights movement. Even without soring/stewarding, the Big Lick is an effective recruiting tool for AR activism. This 50-year old mess is a gold mine.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                What is the point of showing Watchout again in the WGC class? Frankly, he's not sired any amazing flat shod/lite shod/barefoot show horses, he's just a pretty-colored, thoroughly average to below average, flat shod horse. He hasn't sired squat doodle. He is willing and kind and obviously good natured. But why show him again? To prove what? That you have a horse who isn't competitive in Country or Trail Pleasure?
                Man, ain't we got the claws out, eh? And exactly what have YOU produced? Gonna talk like that, better be able to put it on the line . . .

                Just sayin'!

                Comment


                • meow!!

                  Comment


                  • This Stakeholder call is taking place this afternoon- I'm posting this info for anyone who has a stake in this- I won't be able to participate, but I'd love to hear about what transpires.

                    ________________________________________________
                    Animal Care Stakeholder Call Tuesday, June 5, at 4 p.m. EDT--Important Horse Protection Act Updateþ

                    Please join Dr. Chester Gipson, Deputy Administrator of APHIS’ Animal Care program, on a conference call Tuesday, June 5, at 4 p.m. EDT for an important Horse Protection Act update.

                    The call-in number is 877-322-9654 and the participant code is: 993037. An AT&T operator will request your name and affiliation prior to placing you in the call. This may take a couple of minutes, so please dial in a few minutes early to ensure we start on time.

                    Thanks,

                    Hallie

                    Hallie Zimmers

                    Adviser for State and Stakeholder Relations

                    U.S. Department of Agriculture

                    Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service

                    hallie.zimmers@aphis.usda.gov

                    202-799-7029

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                      Um, no. He is a good soul, that horse: but he's not a great TWH. And he's not sired any great TWHs. Sorry, but he hasn't.
                      Just curious how you define a "great TWH." Remember, Watchout is shown sound.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Rbow View Post
                        In this case, I think the lack of regulation is more empowering to the animal rights movement. Even without soring/stewarding, the Big Lick is an effective recruiting tool for AR activism. This 50-year old mess is a gold mine.
                        Not really. This will be pushed off the front page by some other outrage in some other equine discipline. That has been the history for the past 50 years and will likely be so in the future. If anything the "hot news life cycle" decreases with each new technology. The Industry knows this and is just "hunkered down" for the time being.

                        And HSUS will just pocket the extra funds raised and look for another issue to back. Not that this one will "go away," but will just drop back in priority.

                        Further, the real action is in Nashville, not New York or DC. If you want to push our oft-times redneck legislature into non-action (or worse, into re-action) just push hard from the Left or Right Coast. If you wish to suceed at the State level then you'll have to deal with the people that are in place.

                        This statute does give some new tools to the prosecution to address serious issues. Note that the legislation also forbids dragging an animal behind a vehicle. That was the genesis of this proposal. It stemmed from a case in McMinn Co. last year.

                        I live in a county where an overzealous ACO made an inappropriate siezure of dairy cattle. I was personally involved in the matter. The county got sued for a Federal Civil Rights violation and ended up paying $300,000 to the owners in compensation. This also resulted in a change in State law requiring a pre-investigation by a person with specific knowledge of livestock care before a herd can be siezed. The risk of "animal rights activism" is quite real.

                        You don't note where you live. If you're a TN resident then your concerns should be addressed to your state sen. or rep. If you don't live in TN then you can make your feelings known to any state authority you wish. How seriously you will be taken is unknown.

                        G.
                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                        Comment


                        • i'm calling my State Vet,asking if he will be in on this Animal Care stakeholder call.also my State Agricultrul Commissioner,horses put thousands of DOLLARS in this Sates economy,what about your state?

                          Guilherme,are you suggesting we band together and sue the State of Tn. force them so to speak into doing the right thing. interesting concept

                          Watchout:Showing at the Celebration,wont help this cause it will just make the BL folks think its about your owner and the personal things humans get caught up in.

                          jmo

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                            Further, the real action is in Nashville, not New York or DC. If you want to push our oft-times redneck legislature into non-action (or worse, into re-action) just push hard from the Left or Right Coast. If you wish to suceed at the State level then you'll have to deal with the people that are in place.
                            So much I like about your posts. G. if you have any specific ideas in terms of possible state action I'd love to hear them...feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by subk View Post
                              So much I like about your posts. G. if you have any specific ideas in terms of possible state action I'd love to hear them...feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post.
                              Good Luck (seriously).

                              I do think there are some different forces at work this time and I'm more optimistic.

                              I agree, TN residents will have the biggest influence in Nashville and appreciate your efforts.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Champagne Watchout - Still around and still sound. Natalie is a lovely rider. Watching those BL horses reverse in the ring is so ridiculous. Come to a stop so the horse can change gears. Carefully turn. If they tried to have them move in a small circle at their "gait" i think many would end up entangling their crazy legs and end up tripping. I dont know how that manufactured gait made it off the drawing board, certainly no engineers were involved.

                                Thanks for the headsup Plain and Tall. Waiting for a call back to see what their criteria for a stakeholder is.

                                Added - My take is that entering Champagne Watchout would be more symbolic than anything else. How old is he now - he must be in this twenties.
                                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by aarpaso View Post
                                  Guilherme,are you suggesting we band together and sue the State of Tn. force them so to speak into doing the right thing. interesting concept
                                  No, I'm not suggesting suing the State. The State is soverign and is immune from most suits, particularly those that demand a political action.

                                  The legislature is the place where laws are written. That is the place to push for action. But in a functioning republic you must be prepared to meet resistance and if you can't overcome that resistence then you lose. That's how our system works.

                                  In reality the core areas of the Big Lick horse in TN are a relatively few counties. The number of people who own BL horses is relatively small. But they also tend to be relatively well off and relatively politically active. So my suggested approach is not at all a "slam dunk."

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                    The only way to get the TWH off this merry go round is to make stacks and action devices illegal.
                                    Please define action devices and would that include at home training?

                                    Please define stacks, would that be all stacks, corrective shoeing stacks or theraputic stacks, if so, and it renders the animal unusable what are your solutions?
                                    The Elephant in the room

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by subk View Post
                                      So much I like about your posts. G. if you have any specific ideas in terms of possible state action I'd love to hear them...feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post.
                                      TN residents that feel strongly on this issue should be writing their State reps. and urging stronger action.

                                      The Legislature is currently in recess and will not reconvien until after the general election. This means that we are in the "silly season." Go to a few "meet and greet" events with candidates and "feel them out" on this subject. Then vote (with your ballot, your dollars and your time volunteering for one who shares your views).

                                      There is no "silver bullet" that can be fired into the heart of this issue. It will take a combination of not providing economic support to the Sore Lick crowd (not breeding to Sore Lick horses, not hiring Sore Lick trainers, etc.). It means not patronizing businesses who support the Sore Lick crowd (and letting those businesses know where your dollars are going). It means starving the TWHBEA of funds (meaning registering horses elsewhere). There are lots of other steps that I'm sure others can think of.

                                      At the end of the day it's the TWH owners who provide the funds that make this whole thing possible. When they decide "enough is enough" the war will be won. Unless and until they do it will go on.

                                      G.
                                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                      Comment


                                      • The_Walking_Horse_World[1].pdfReply to sender

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                          Please define action devices and would that include at home training?

                                          Please define stacks, would that be all stacks, corrective shoeing stacks or theraputic stacks, if so, and it renders the animal unusable what are your solutions?
                                          GIVE IT A REST, FAIRFAX

                                          You have bee posting, and I assume reading this thread long enough to know what is being talked about. Quit trying to derail the conversation and turn all the attention on you and YOUR breed.

                                          This thread is about TWHS.

                                          P. S. No reply is needed.

                                          Comment

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