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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • I am home alone,~~~ my gurlfirend is making her way back home from judging in Oregon, Spent a very very good day with my daughter Natalie in GA with her family, went to church and enjoyed the blessing God has so richly bestowed upon me.

    My phone has been blowing up all day with messages from so many that remember me on this day I would like to think that I may have done something kind in their lives that they think of me today~~~

    Now I am prefacing my message below with this;

    I ain't trying to proselytize anyone, Have you ever heard me lead an "altar call?"

    I am telling you what works for me, you don't have to believe it, you go ahead and do you, what I believe may not work for you, and I will do me~~~ God is woven into the very fabric of my being and at times it's like fire shut up in my bones! I literally have to "Go Tell it on the Mountain!"


    I must amend my statement "It's All About The Horse"...because of the statement above~~~ When I felt led some 30 years ago to take up this cause, HE told that HE was going to use His Horse, to change man's/woman's hearts ~~~

    Isaiah 55 says that "His ways are not my ways" and that His thoughts are higher than my thoughts"

    That is enough for me to believe that God is God, and I am not Him~~~

    So for my fight, it has been about highlighting The Horse which is in the situation they are because of the hardness of man's/woman's hearts.

    In my lifetime it is the second social thing that has touched close to my heart the story of mean men, subjugating what they think they own with hard, cold oppressive steel Chains! Lawd have mercy today!~~~

    I have been told to just speak the truth as I know it and understand it ~~~It is God's job to change hearts ~~~I had to always keep in mind also the other scripture that says "The fool says in his heart ~~~ there is no God"

    So I deal with that opposition on a daily basis, as exampled, with bad behavior and actions.

    GGR & LE, and every one of you that stand on the line of "Almost" steppin over the line of "commitment"

    ITS ALRIGHT AND RIGHT that you feel as you do ~~ I am with you "fool me once, shame on you , fool me twice shame on me!"

    I feel that often!!! and I Get It!

    Which is part and partial to the way I am...but God told me that He is in charge! and He cares about the affairs of man and woman! He may not come when you want Him to but He is always right on time!

    How in the world do you think the Children of Israel felt standing there on the bank of The Red Sea ~~~ A SEA!!! ~~~as the waters parted and the winds dried the seabed...THAT was waay beyond any human experience any of them ever heard about..

    Taking that first step behind someone you trust holding their hand, looking up at that wall of water, as a kid I always wondered if they could see fish swimming around. ~~~ I still do!

    What makes men and women do things they never have before, climb in a prairie schooner to cross unknown lands, believing everything will be alright as you climb in a space capsule, or you and I taking a seat on a airplane...

    It's called Faith! FAITH?~~~~ Faith IN WHO? WHAT?

    "Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen!"

    Things hoped for ~~ Things not seen ~~!~ um ummm, gives one pause...

    That is what encourages me every day! I don't know about you but God has brought me through some pretty unbelieving situations ~~~ why would I think He's left me now?

    As far as waiting for The Lickers to be gone? Well, there are so many parables that express that things will mix, as they get separated in His due time,

    The Wheat from the Chaff, The Sheep from the Goats, The Righteous from the Unrighteous, The Light from the Dark, ~~~ there is no switch that makes things light to dark and back, with a snap of the finger~~~it has a due process of being together occupying the same time, space and intensity.

    The darkest hour is just before the dawn and It's always darkest just before the dawn.;

    When things are extremely bad, it may signal that they are about to get much better.

    So, for me and my family we raise our foot, and place it on solid ground and put one foot in front of the other, praying with every step..

    That's how I know to do what I should do, FAITH ~~~~ He truly is my rock ~~

    The time will come you will know exactly what to do AND when to do it!

    Keep watch, ~~~ keep seeking what is right, the truth, don't close your mind and heart to all the gloom and doom that is lost and hopeless, this too, shall pass..

    The Preacher

    Comment


    • I do not know how letting TWHBEA fail will actually benefit anyone. Its failure is not gonna stop the stacked/sore training tolerant crowd. The stacked crowd seem to have a plan to buy out the registry and carry on or possibly just carry on with a new registry.

      I know some outside of TWHBEA who love the Walkers but are opposed to the crimes of TWHBEA have the sentiment its best just let TWHBEA fail. But this plan seems to have no backers to actually build a new registry.


      SO I have some questions -

      Is it just a hope that in the vacuum of TWHBEA's failure a new Walking Horse registry will be built? Or is there an actual plan to build a new registry?

      If there is such a plan - where/who is this group?
      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

      Comment


      • The National Walking Horse Association.

        Comment


        • I do not think they are a "breed" registry. It is a tracking registry.
          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

          Comment


          • Like the Racking Horse Association. NWHA is an "open book." I could register both of mine with either of those and or the Pleasure Saddle horse... the Kentucky Mountain Horse... etc.
            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

            Comment


            • Today it is. Tomorrow it could be something else. Nothing is set in stone.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                I do not know how letting TWHBEA fail will actually benefit anyone. Its failure is not gonna stop the stacked/sore training tolerant crowd. The stacked crowd seem to have a plan to buy out the registry and carry on or possibly just carry on with a new registry.

                I know some outside of TWHBEA who love the Walkers but are opposed to the crimes of TWHBEA have the sentiment its best just let TWHBEA fail. But this plan seems to have no backers to actually build a new registry.


                SO I have some questions -

                Is it just a hope that in the vacuum of TWHBEA's failure a new Walking Horse registry will be built? Or is there an actual plan to build a new registry?

                If there is such a plan - where/who is this group?
                No it likely wouldn't stop them, not in the near future. But you have to wonder how they would last on their own, with pretty much the entire equine industry and the federal government against them. The TWHBEA experienced a gradual descent into the stacked and chained madness over several decades...unlike a new group for the "Performance Horses" where everyone everywhere is going to exactly what they are, who they are and what they stand for right from the get-go. And who, aside from their close-knit circle, is going to support them? Again as Tracy Boyd said they have lost the public. The curtain has been pulled back and everyone has seen the wizard for what he really is. It's hard to imagine that a new group for the stacked crowd would have any sort of longevity facing opposition at every angle especially if they cling bitterly to their soring ways which they seem pretty bent on doing.

                If the TWHBEA imploded and ceased to exist personally I would lose no sleep over it, not at this point. Is it something I actively wish for? Not at all. And *if* that were to happen and they chose to take the lineage books and numbers down with them, well that would be a damn shame but it would be their own doing and the resulting damage to the breed would be on them. Bottom line is, we would still have the horses and that is worth something. Surely there are enough enthusiasts of the breed *something* would rise out of the rubble. I think the NWHA would be great group to pick up the pieces.

                To answer your question yes, I think there are a lot of people that hope a new Walking Horse registry would be built in the event of the TWHBEA collapsing. As for the rest? Damned if I know. It's obvious from the mass exodus years ago many of us have cut bait from the TWHBEA. To say there are a good amount of people out there who would welcome an alternative way to preserve our horses' lineage is a bit of an understatement.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GaitedGloryRider View Post

                  ... To say there are a good amount of people out there who would welcome an alternative way to preserve our horses' lineage is a bit of an understatement.

                  Love this! I hope the word gets out and more step forward to get this New Day up and running. Keeping the TWHBEA books would be an asset to any such venture.
                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                  Comment


                  • TWHNC aren't the only group interested in rescuing the TWH,the others are keeping their cards close to the VEST.to many RATS in the woodwork.

                    Comment


                    • If they are driven out of business they can keep their registration data and no one can force them to release it. If they go bankrupt it becomes and asset and would go to the highest bidder. Which could also be a big lick fan.

                      If the pedigree data base is lost..then so is the breed..
                      The Elephant in the room

                      Comment


                      • Fairfax I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. First off, this is the information age. The pedigrees are out elsewhere there just not in one convenient place like the TWHBEA's database. We know who our horses are.

                        Second off, if the TWHBEA were driven out of business it would not render all the horses out there sterile.

                        The horses are out there and so is their identity. The potential is there for another group to pick up the pieces and start from scratch. Under a different name, with different numbers, with whatever other assorted legal hoops to jump through to avoid stepping on their defunct toes sure but the breed would not be lost. Even without their TWHBEA identities they are still Tennessee Walking Horses and nothing will change that.

                        *IF* it came to that it would be a shame for sure, and would likely have a negative impact on the breed but I doubt the TWH would cease to exist entirely.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                          If they are driven out of business they can keep their registration data and no one can force them to release it. If they go bankrupt it becomes and asset and would go to the highest bidder. Which could also be a big lick fan.

                          If the pedigree data base is lost..then so is the breed..
                          Your comments about the pedigree data base as a valuable asset in bankruptcy are valid.

                          Right now, based upon my experience with Walkers (that is admittedly aging) probably well under 50% of all papered Walkers are registered when sold. When we bred Walkers I always registered my youngsters and, on sale, would include a transfer (and the accompanying membership in TWHBEA). I cannot tell you the number of times buyers expressed amazement that I'd do that. I also bought a number of Walkers over the years and fully half had outdated registrations. It was common practice for a seller to sign the transfer "in blank" (no date) and sent it along with the papers for the horse. It was not uncommon to find horses being transferred three and four times before somebody decided to register it, again. TWHBEA had rules against this (at one point they were comparing the color of ink on the Transfer forms and rejecting them if it didn't match). That didn't last all that long, but it demonstrates the breadth and depth of the problem.

                          It also demonstrates that while there is value in the core of the TWHBEA pedigree data base it is grossly incomplete and is made up mostly of the show lines.

                          There is, and always has been, an incredibly large "back yard breeding" industry with Walkers. This is not to say that there are not conscientious breeders also (a LOT of them). But there is a reason why a lot of the "open book" North American gaited horse registries are stuffed full of Walkers.

                          The demise of TWHBEA would not mean the demise of Walker breed. The horses would still exist. Records of their patrimony would still exist. Only a specific set and format of numbers would be lost. They could be recreated without all that much ado.

                          G.
                          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            I personally know hordes of people who have switched to gaited horses and say they will now always ride a gaited horse. I am one of them. The Tennessee Walking Horse will survive an identity crisis because people are passionate in their loyalty to this wonderful breed of horse. This is what i have encountered out on the trails.
                            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                              Like the Racking Horse Association. NWHA is an "open book." I could register both of mine with either of those and or the Pleasure Saddle horse... the Kentucky Mountain Horse... etc.
                              You could if, in the case of NWHA, your horse passes a gait and conformation certification process. Same with RHBAA, but you must pass their gait and conformation certification process. However, that doesn't help you with the lineage of your horse. You can submit the information from the current papers of a TWH that is registered with TWHBEA and get all that information saved onto the papers of NWHA or RHBAA........thus saving all that juicy pedigree information!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                I personally know hordes of people who have switched to gaited horses and say they will now always ride a gaited horse. I am one of them. The Tennessee Walking Horse will survive an identity crisis because people are passionate in their loyalty to this wonderful breed of horse. This is what i have encountered out on the trails.
                                THIS! My gelding was a rescued waif, so has no papers. Yet he is a striking specimen of the breed, and no one could fail to see from 100yards away exactly what he is. My filly on the other hand comes from long, known lines of old plantation blood and her breeder can tell you back 50 years "who she is."

                                But I'm not looking to breed or sell, nor am I seeking some narrow bandwidth of "status symbol." What matters to me is, are they "good usin' horses?" and the answer is a resounding "Yes!"

                                I'd like to register the filly, as that would increase her value "on paper," but which outfit I write a check to is a big "Who cares?" EXCEPT that I will not give ONE RED CENT to any registry supporting soring and stacks in ANY way.

                                NJ "Preacher": I respect that you are operating from within your very devout faith, and hope that Grace will fall upon TWHBEA. The picture a lot of the rest of us see, however, is a bunch of cornered rats with their backs to the wall. People are never meaner or more dangerous than when terrified by the prospect that they are about to lose their livelihood. These "trainers" have no idea if they can "win" honestly with sound horses, and are not going to give up control of TWHBEA unless it is wrested from them, forcibly.

                                The best thing we have to that end is the fact that "the public is against them." We need to keep it that way--give Big Lick no place to show itself where it will not be run off the field. Then maybe they'll "get it." I do think that this task is somewhat less daunting than parting the Red Sea, but we do need to keep the pressure on.

                                Comment


                                • I was just commenting on the validity of the grou to keep the data base. Whether or not a persons avails themselves to a transfer of a horse into their name or the registration of "purebred" horses only matters WHEN the breeding climate changes and has more government or some other type of control. For a breeder to claim their horse is pure and therefore they are not breeding mongrels and therefore should not have an enormous tax placed on their foals..MIGHT be determined by the validity of the horse via its registration number and pedigree.

                                  Accepting a pedigree based on a breeders guaranty is no longer valid for USDA.

                                  I am sure you could avail yourselves to many pedigrees as certified through the Canadian Livestock Registration where all purebred TWH's are registered. (or should be)

                                  I didn't realize the challenges you have in the states regarding this issue. If the bloodstock books are not closed then I guess anything goes....and if that is the case..how is one going to breed for action? Pedigrees are the roadmap. They show you where you started and point the direction of where you are going.

                                  Anyway..hope it works out.

                                  Here is the link to the TWH Association of Western Canada...

                                  www.twhawc.com
                                  The Elephant in the room

                                  Comment


                                  • USDA has no say in the organization or operation of any U.S. breed registry.

                                    There is nowhere in the U.S. that has a tax on foals, purebred or otherwise (unless it's part of a larger personal property tax system).

                                    An open stud book is not an "anything goes" book. It just means that the breed will accept a horse that meets certain standards.

                                    Pedigree is, indeed, an important tool in making breeding selections. Loss of the TWHBEA registry data would be a Bad Thing. Since that loss is unlikely (even if TWHBEA folds) it might be less a "real world issue" than it seems.

                                    G.
                                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                    Comment


                                    • Mornin;

                                      Good points all-the-way-round above me here~~~ LOTS of speculation!

                                      Those waiting to see the Big Lick vanquished before they join-in and sign-up in TWHBEA needs to understand EXACTLY how the ONLY way that will happen.

                                      Right now TWHBEA services two divisions, flat shod and padded, you already know that.

                                      How any change is gonna happen is the majority of International Board of Directors vote for ANY changes in TWHBEA.

                                      It’s not even you and I unless you are a BOD ~~~ the “Majority Rules” is the watchword of the day.

                                      What happens is that when we become members, your state of region (for smaller numbers), gets to appoint, elect (If more than one vying for the job) a person to come down here to TN, sit in on meetings, and then vote when the time comes.

                                      (On the floor right now is the discussion of how to incorporate electronic meetings)

                                      You all will be sitting on your pocketbooks for a long time waiting for it to be gone…if those that want things to change do not become members and tell your director how you want them to vote.

                                      The only other thing that can get rid of them is (pads & chains) making new law, both Federal and State.

                                      So here are the available seats for this term, I checked and so far for the two seats in TN are only myself and my wife..

                                      We have until August 1st to declare your desire to be on the board…

                                      Is your state open to have a BOD below, I know there were only 2 people for the state of Maryland and they still got a Director…

                                      For right now (a point on the floor we are trying to abolish) you must be a member for 5 consecutive years ~~~that’s it ~~~~do you happen to know someone in your state that is eligible? Encourage them to run THEN you clubs in that state or region support them going to the meetings, the furtherest Director I know said it was about $800.00 - $1,000.00 flight, car, room, meals.

                                      However, if these discussions are just to keep busy, the time for talking is over, there was a time when talk was crucial to making progress, but we are at that point to take that talk and put it into action.

                                      Nobody here is making any new points needed to make change, it’s all been said several times, different analogies, points, facts, and speculation ~~~ at some point in the past, which was all was very necessary.

                                      We can all talk about how good that BBQ is going to be ~~~ but at some point the talking stops and the grill gets fired up, meat, vegetables prepared then cooked ~~~ NOW we can eat!!!!

                                      The Preacher

                                      Comment


                                      • You make some good points too, Preacher.
                                        The quest as I see it is to lose the grotesque founder crawl and all the gross mechanics that went into making it. It is about limits for me and avoiding the extremes. It is about actualizing the core spirit of the AVMA and AAEP declarative statements that got this ball rolling in the right direction. Changing TWHBEA - the breed organization that spawned the need for HPA - is paramount in this quest.
                                        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                        Comment


                                        • 2013 Available TWHBEA IBOD seats

                                          “Candidate for the Board”
                                          c/o TWHBEA
                                          P.O. Box 286
                                          Lewisburg TN 37091-0286

                                          State, Province, Country or Region Number of Directors to Elect
                                          Alabama 1
                                          Arizona 1
                                          Colorado 1
                                          Georgia 2
                                          Kansas 1 (1 Year Term)
                                          Kentucky 3
                                          Minnesota 1
                                          Mississippi 1
                                          Missouri 1
                                          Ohio 1
                                          Texas 1
                                          Tennessee 2
                                          Utah 1
                                          Virginia 1
                                          Washington 1
                                          West Virginia 1
                                          Wisconsin 1
                                          Region 4 1
                                          Alberta 1
                                          Israel 1
                                          Germany 1

                                          Comment

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