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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Original Poster

    i wish ppl would stop quoting the windbags so i have to look at their words. Just kidding - do what you gotta do.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

    Comment


    • I can't help but wonder how many posters on this thread will end up being charged when this whole sordid mess comes crashing down. Most seem to think it is okay to sore, and even better to tape it for months or years before publicizing it. This blind approach that says tapes must be held for months/years should have the holders placed in chains. Seems all our local showgirls don't really want it to end. They just want to clamor about it!

      Comment


      • Well, they made a convincing video - got the first conviction the article says - while the rest of the world did nothing that had any effect on McConnell's abuse.

        Glad the article set the flack talking straight on this thread.
        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

        Comment


        • years after the fact. hang it up there, luvvy, you have been proven the weakest link!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
            i wish ppl would stop quoting the windbags so i have to look at their words. Just kidding - do what you gotta do.
            Blank quotes work best.
            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
              Well, they made a convincing video - got the first conviction the article says - while the rest of the world did nothing that had any effect on McConnell's abuse.

              Glad the article set the flack talking straight on this thread.
              Bears repeating.
              from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                i wish ppl would stop quoting the windbags so i have to look at their words. Just kidding - do what you gotta do.
                Sorry WITW.

                I just hate it when certain individuals try to spin anything to the point it's not even close to the real story.
                ************************
                \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                  Fairfax you need to read for comprehension or stop leaving out the parts that are refuting the claims made in the prior sentence:

                  This video was sat on for four months," Sen. Mike Bell, R-Riceville, said. "They did nothing to stop the abuse ... didn't turn it over to law enforcement" and chose to release it at the "opportune time for them to benefit, I guess HSUS's fundraising."

                  That's not exactly correct. According to federal law enforcement officials, the Humane Society turned the film over to the U.S. Department of Agriculture investigators responsible for walking horse show inspections. The USDA, in turn, asked U.S. District Attorney Bill Killian to prosecute McConnell and others on the film. The film was not released to the public until after McConnell was convicted last summer.
                  I think it was over a duration of four months that the video was filmed. WHen you look at the charges the time is fairly long.
                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2.../?opiniontimes

                    Don't horse around, Governor


                    Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam should veto the so-called "ag gag" bill, which grew out of the federal conviction of one of Tennessee's top walking horse trainers and now seems shaped by the walking horse industry to block future investigations.

                    Haslam spokesman Dave Smith said the governor will review the bill and probably make a decision Monday or Tuesday about whether to sign or veto the bill that requires anyone who photographs or videotapes abuse of an animal to give a copy to police within 48 hours.

                    Proponents say the bill is aimed at protecting animals. But critics such as the Humane Society of the United States say it is really an "ag gag" bill aimed at blocking investigators from obtaining detailed documentation of abuse.

                    Haslam has wrestled with the decision.

                    The mighty Tennessee Farm Bureau backs the bill, as does Senate Speaker Ron Ramsey, R-Blountville.

                    But thousands of Tennesseans don't.

                    Haslam's office has been bombarded with about 15,000 emails and telephone calls. The vast majority are urging the governor's veto. Celebrities including Priscilla Presley and country music superstar Carrie Underwood also seek a veto. And more than 33,000 people nationwide have signed an American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee petition urging his veto.

                    On Thursday, Tennessee Attorney General Robert Cooper issued a 10-page legal opinion finding the bill is "constitutionally suspect" on three grounds under the U.S. Constitution.

                    The bill was prompted by the storm created when top walking horse trainer Jackie McConnell, of Collierville, Tenn., pleaded guilty last spring in federal court to abuse chronicled with videos collected by an undercover Humane Society operative.

                    A year before, the Humane Society of the United States went undercover and secretly filmed activity at McConnell's training stable. The video showed trainers and grooms "soring" horses with caustic substances applied to their legs and hooves to force their high-stepping gait.

                    McConnell was taped beating a horse to "school" him against moving when his sore legs were massaged as a show inspector would do.

                    The industry claims such abuse is rare -- just an occasional rotten apple. But McConnell had been honored by the industry at least once as "trainer of the year."

                    The bill's opponents -- especially the $1.4 billion walking horse industry -- also charge that long-term video documentation leaves the animals in abusive situations, and some accuse the Humane Society of using the video probes at fundraising events.

                    "This video was sat on for four months," Sen. Mike Bell, R-Riceville, said. "They did nothing to stop the abuse ... didn't turn it over to law enforcement" and chose to release it at the "opportune time for them to benefit, I guess HSUS's fundraising."

                    That's not exactly correct. According to federal law enforcement officials, the Humane Society turned the film over to the U.S. Department of Agriculture investigators responsible for walking horse show inspections. The USDA, in turn, asked U.S. District Attorney Bill Killian to prosecute McConnell and others on the film. The film was not released to the public until after McConnell was convicted last summer.

                    When the bill was approved by the Senate in April, Senate sponsor Dolores Gresham, R-Somerville, said the bill's goal to require handing over the video quickly was to stop such activity immediately. McConnell's stable is in her district.

                    But when Senate Majority Leader Mark Norris, R-Collierville, introduced an amendment making the bill applicable to everyone who witnesses animal abuse, Gresham successfully moved to table it.

                    "What's wrong with this bill is you're criminalizing the filmmaker, not the abuse," Norris said.

                    Gresham's bill passed 22-9 with Sens. Todd Gardenhire, R-Chattanooga, also voting for it. Sen. Bo Watson, R-Hixson, did not vote.

                    This week, the airwaves in Tennessee have been peppered with a six-figure ad campaign by the Humane Society to raise public pressure for Haslam's veto.

                    "Tennessee politicians have passed a bill to silence whistle-blowers, covering up the abuse and protecting the next Jackie McConnell," the ad charges.

                    But the Horse Protection Act of 1970 never had a soring conviction until last year. In part, that's because historically animal rights groups and individuals have had a difficult time persuading local police and sheriffs to act. That's why the Humane Society took its collection of McConnell films to federal authorities.

                    Haslam has vetoed only one bill since taking office in 2011.

                    He should make this one No. 2.

                    Just to highlight some good stuff.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                      Not entirely true. The RHBA (Racking Horse Breeders Association) does not show in chains. URHOEA (United Racking Horse Owners and Exhibitors Association) does use the chains.

                      The chemical applications of soring compounds is done throughout the week while the horses are worked. The soring lasts for a few days so it is not necessary to do any additional soring on the show grounds. That is exactly why Racking horses have the same flinging of feet that the Walking horse does.
                      When time permits - if you are open to the discussion - I would love to hear your pro/con views of action devices in the context of the proposed amendments to the HPA.

                      So glad you came to the thread.

                      Hey? Anyone seen aaarpaso? She OK?
                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                        Sorry WITW.

                        I just hate it when certain individuals try to spin anything to the point it's not even close to the real story.
                        Just remind yourself that the provocative stuff gets said precisely to get others to respond. The more provocative and out there the statement the more desperate the desire for engagement.

                        Once you consider the source, and the intent, ignoring it becomes easier.
                        Sheilah

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
                          Just remind yourself that the provocative stuff gets said precisely to get others to respond. The more provocative and out there the statement the more desperate the desire for engagement.

                          Once you consider the source, and the intent, ignoring it becomes easier.
                          Sheilah
                          Right on, is what animal rights extremist are doing on horse web sites, wanting to have a chance to disrupt any and all we do, showing abuses and making it all be about abuses.
                          They hit a veritable gold mine with this TWH stuff.

                          Like someone said, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

                          Comment


                          • It is clear both sides are divided..so I just hope that the TWH group is able to eliminate all soring from all divisions. After all..it should be about the horses.

                            If a group takes too long to release their documentaton and there if proof that many other horses were tortured that could have been saved...well..so be it. But it will draw the ire of horsewomen and men from other groups.

                            Most who post here do at least fill out a form letter to a governor or congress person..so maybe anything and everything helps.

                            Keith Danes is most certainly keeping his head down...guess that is what happens when you are on the fence...but maybe he will leap to one side or another.

                            Good Luck to all TWH owners. I truly do hope it all works out for you
                            The Elephant in the room

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              I have read that the entire filming was six weeks. They shared what they had after just 2 weeks and were told to continue filming. Big difference between the six weeks and the many months and years some are claiming. In the big picture, that 2 weeks of abuse spearheaded the takedown of an industry that has been abusing for decades.
                              from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                Sorry WITW.


                                I just hate it when certain individuals try to spin anything to the point it's not even close to the real story.
                                No problem luvmytbs !
                                I know what you mean - it sure distracts the purpose of this thread - to stop soring of the TWH and they insert their own agendas. Its funny - if they started their own thread i bet it would have minimal views and posts, so they latch on here just to get attention. Its about the horse, not them.
                                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  ...wanting to have a chance to disrupt any and all we do, showing abuses and making it all be about abuses.
                                  Well, I for one strongly believe that when there is abuse it should be all about the abuse.

                                  You say that as if it is a bad thing that it is all about the abuse.
                                  Sheilah

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
                                    Well, I for one strongly believe that when there is abuse it should be all about the abuse.

                                    You say that as if it is a bad thing that it is all about the abuse.
                                    Sheilah
                                    It is when it is used to turn the public against humans having animals, the ultimate goal of animal rights extremist.

                                    Now that would be sad and a real case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, to eliminate abuse, eliminate all use of animals.

                                    Surely that is not the goal of those here, on a horse forum?

                                    I have already been on record with what I think of all this.
                                    No need to repeat that.

                                    Comment


                                    • Oh I'm so glad I found this place! And Idaho and Justa Bob, y'all are like a cool breeze on a hot summer day! I've been working on my latest letter to my Congressman today and realized that a) I can be real wordy and b) I write assuming that people have no direct knowledge of the circumstances and history.

                                      It took a helluva lot of courage back when Jennie, Cherie, Donna, Pam and others went nationwide and said they used to participate at various levels in soring horses but they had then seen the error of their ways. I remember Jennie specifically saying that she finally realized what an animal SHE had become. THEY are my heros and eventually led me to tell my own story.

                                      Hurley, I will gladly tell you my views on the action devices. In and of themselves, the 6 ounce chain is but a minor player in the game. The reason a 6 ounce chain works is because of the soring agent/ shoeing method already applied. Without the chemicals and/or shoeing methods, the chain would have little to no effect on the horses gait........but it still would look barbarian to the outside world.

                                      I think it was the McConnell video (but could have been another) that shows the horse working at the barn in two chains on each foot. Those other chains are very heavy and are included in a typical work day for the horse, just not allowed in the show ring. Those additional chains cause additional soring, in a way helping to beat the chemicals into the horse. Then when it's show time, that 6 ounce chain is banging around on some really sore skin.

                                      As I showed you in the video of the Racking horses, they don't use chains to show but they do sore the horse leading up to show day. Did y'all know that Jennie and Nathans horse had to wear bell boots to show in the WGC class? It was either wear the bell boots or the chains and they chose the boots.

                                      Anyway, the chain doesn't stop the abuse as evidenced by the Racking Horse Celebration. I personally don't like the chains and since they have no real use other than banging on a sore leg, they might as well be gone with the pads and the chemicals.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                        It is when it is used to turn the public against humans having animals, the ultimate goal of animal rights extremist.
                                        You know what does a bang up job of turning the public against humans owning horses? Bad people abusing horses. That in and of itself will do the job just fine. Your sacred demon RARAs don't have to do anything more than step back and let that crap speak for itself. And having so called horse people such as yourself make excuses for why we should be more concerned about losing our horses than concerned about protecting the animals isn't painting the rest of us in a very flattering light, either.

                                        We have some choices here. We can yell and scream about what our "rights" are, and demand that only X, Y and Z be a part of the conversation. Or we can find a seat at the table and make sure that actual horse people have a voice in creating a solution. Otherwise the only input really will come from RARAs and politicians.

                                        Worried that a farrier won't be able to use a therapeutic pad if the stacks are outlawed? Then step up and make sure the legislation drafted includes language to protect those therapeutic pads. That would be a whole lot more beneficial than taking the position that you can't differentiate between a therapeutic pad and a stack, therefore stacks should not be outlawed. If you refuse to take part in the conversation, don't complain that the end result doesn't take into account the aspects you think are important. That just makes you look contrary.
                                        Sheilah

                                        Comment


                                        • CleanUpTN, you have no idea what a breath of fresh air you have been. It is clear that you speak from experience, rather than just ideology.
                                          Sheilah

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