• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
    You have not kept up much and it shows. I have no need to enter the circle game with you. But I will give you one more example so you will understand how soring the front feet works:

    At a show. Young bay horse in stacks and chains working a straight a way. He is lifting the left leg higher than the right. Trainer gets off the horse. Goes to the right front of the horse. He kicks the horses coronet band several good times with his pointed toed cowboy boot until the horse picks that foot off the ground. He walks around and gets on the horse and spurs it along. Now the horse is squatting behind and picking up both feet equally.

    Understand now?
    golly gosh ma'am thank you for instructin me in show ring stuff and about those them horsies. Bin shoin since 58 and guess I don't nowed much.

    glad others seen thru your explanashun

    I have had horses with coffin bone disorders caused by breeding (my QH mare straight pasterns) or trainers trying to show 2 year olds resulting in a stress breakdown.

    A "kick" to the colonet band would NOT result in a "gait correction" for more than about 2 feet.

    I understand what you are saying about IDENTICAL soring in the front.. and I see how that would be attainable with a caustic paste AND a rubbin chain..but I sure do not see it with a kick to the band

    Now..both Dr. GiGi and Dr. Cindy (Scottsdale) disagree with you..Pressure shoeing yes but that is because it can be done to both fronts with a consistency..but not a kick.

    Both said a foundered horse would NOT be able to perform at a BL movement. They would collapse..period..
    The Elephant in the room

    Comment


    • Mock all you want - and disbelieve all you want. This was a witnessed event.

      Tell me do you think heavy chains were banned for a reason? What do you think those heavy chains were banging on? The sole?
      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

      Comment


      • Why do you think McConnell is putting the soring agent on the coronet band??
        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
          They lost due to a technicality in the Melvin Hatley case, but in Burge v AQHA (a later case) they won on the white rule.

          If they wanted to enforce it immediately, they could.

          But we're way off topic, so if you want to continue to discuss it, let's start a new thread.
          What discussion?
          I was answering a direct question with a direct answer.
          Why look for any other in that?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
            Why do you think McConnell is putting the soring agent on the coronet band??

            Fairfax???
            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

            Comment


            • I am amazed that people actually watch horses being kicked in the front legs and don't intercede on behalf of the horse! Clearly, there seems to be a willingness to accept abuse and inhumane training in this thread. And when people coin their own imaginary terms, the whole thread loses legitmacy.

              Comment


              • I think he was putting soring agent on the whole leg and down onto the hoof but not for any particular reason

                Significant trauma to the coronary band will often result in a defect in the growth of the hoof wall. Horses that have an infection break out at the hairline usually develop a small horizontal crack that will grow out to the ground level. Horses with wounds through the coronary band will sometimes grow a vertical defect in the wall that's permanent, but usually no threat to function

                This is off a site discussing the hoof

                There is no way a trainer would put the soring agent on the leg and have chains IF it worked on the cornet band where there was no skin to BLISTER..and rub

                THAT is what causes the horse to lift to get away from the action.

                During my re-read the WHOLE forum stint..it was discussed numerous times by posters who have TWH's.
                The Elephant in the room

                Comment


                • I have not read this thread. But I just wanted to say that I came home from my first Tennessee Walking Horse show. All big lick classes. I could only stomach staying for 3 classes.

                  Nothing in my life prepared me for such a disgusting display of horse mistreatment. Nothing.
                  Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                  Comment


                  • You are full of ca FF. Watch the McConnell video - even if it breaks your principles to watch an HSUS production.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                      I have not read this thread. But I just wanted to say that I came home from my first Tennessee Walking Horse show. All big lick classes. I could only stomach staying for 3 classes.

                      Nothing in my life prepared me for such a disgusting display of horse mistreatment. Nothing.
                      Did not take much to convince you there needs to be some change in the treatment of the TWH, welcome to the club.
                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        you are right hurleycane - the video clearly shows a substance being dripped around the coronet band.
                        from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                          I have not read this thread. But I just wanted to say that I came home from my first Tennessee Walking Horse show. All big lick classes. I could only stomach staying for 3 classes.

                          Nothing in my life prepared me for such a disgusting display of horse mistreatment. Nothing.
                          Thanks for posting Texarkana. Any decent horseperson will react just as you did. Even people who dont know a whole lot about horses get the same reaction.
                          from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                            I think he was putting soring agent on the whole leg and down onto the hoof but not for any particular reason.
                            Wrong. The soring agent goes on the leg about 1/2" to an inch above the coronary band and/or on the bulbs of the heel. Not the whole leg and certainly not the hoof.

                            There is no way a trainer would put the soring agent on the leg and have chains IF it worked on the cornet band where there was no skin to BLISTER..and rub If they intend to show the horse, they dang sure can not blister it. A blistered horse is out of the show world until the blisters are healed because the one thing the BL judges WILL do is excuse a horse slinging blood.

                            It is VERY rare that someone would present a horse to DQP that has blisters or any other type of open or oozing sore. Actually only a really true first time out of the barn trainer would try that.


                            THAT is what causes the horse to lift to get away from the action.

                            Hey I just had a thought.....go to YouTube and look for Racking Horse World Championship. Those horses are very closely related to the TWH but they don't show in chains (except for the one organization URHOEA). Actually, TWH and Racking horses share many of the same bloodlines and sires but have a different footfall pattern. Then get back with me on the the rubbing and getting away from action part of your post.
                            Even though the title of this thread says TWH, the methods and abuses are the same in the Racking Horse and the Spotted Saddle Horse, breeds developed from the TWH.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                              I have not read this thread. But I just wanted to say that I came home from my first Tennessee Walking Horse show. All big lick classes. I could only stomach staying for 3 classes.

                              Nothing in my life prepared me for such a disgusting display of horse mistreatment. Nothing.
                              Welcome to the jungle Tex and I too am so sorry you witnessed the worst of the beautiful breed. It's truly a good thing you left because the better money/bigger ribbon classes are the last of the night and that's when it gets truly horrific.

                              Comment


                              • Thirty years ago there was a gal on the track. She had a bag of white powder that she sprinkled over the front hooves of her TB before a race...then she would sprinkle it over the horses poll.

                                The first time she did it..her horse came from the back and won by 3 lengths.
                                The second time she did it...her horse won again
                                And the third, fourth and fifth.

                                But he or she..DID LOSE...around the 10th race...she claimed she had not applied it properly..it was FAIRY DUST..but in real life it was ascorbic acid..which is used for eye infections and as an eye wash.

                                She told me she used to sell it during the 60's for 25 dollars PER little bag..good for ONE sprinkle. If a horse lost..she would tell them..they didn't apply it right

                                Some people had their horses win..and occasionally a horse would win that shouldn't have

                                Eventually she was "approached" by the track officials...she did tell them it was ascorbic acid..nothing illega.

                                FIFTY YEARS LATER..there are STILL trainers on the B and C circuits who SWEAR BY IT..

                                I am not doubting it occured...it just wouldn't make a lot of difference. But the kicking of the coronet band would definitely be just dumb...

                                I think the TWH industry is filled with hokey pokey...and too many first cousins gettin married.

                                It ranks with pit bulls and cock fighting..

                                I don't care if he put the soring paste on the mane...bottom line..they are abusing the horses...need to be charged...jailed...fined huge amounts and ignored.

                                GO AFTER THE OWNERS AND RIDERS...go after the society and politicians who participate. GO AFTER THE LADIES....All the ones with big smiles in the expensive advertising. Go to shows in mass and boo them...hand out flyers

                                Or..do what has been done for the past forty years...only this time just hope HSUS cleans up YOUR mess...but hope they don't burn down the chicken coop after they remove all of the chickens.

                                The bg name male trainers don't give a wit what you do but the riders do...remove their status..... DO SOMETHING..to further your cause rather than just post on COTH and wait for someone else to do something,

                                Its YOUR breed and it is time all of your step up the plate and do something other than pontificate and post.

                                Ask Roy to help co ordinate a major protest...but I bet he won't because he think he is a pretty savy guy who understands most won't do anything.

                                And I bet that is what your buddy Keith Danes with his HSUS roll is counting on also. Abdication...of your responsibility...let HIS group do something..but it is gonna cost ya.

                                THAT I can guaranty.
                                The Elephant in the room

                                Comment


                                • FF, the owners and riders know their horses are being sored. They can be ticketed as well as the trainer and it's a risk they are willing to take. And some of them also risk putting their child on such a horse.

                                  At a show in Asheville several years ago, one young lady was thrown over the ring and onto the concrete when her horse just lost it. He was way off gait (from soring) and she continued to do as instructed......grabbing and jerking on the bit and using the whip. The judges let her remount the horse and continue the class (totally against the rules). By the time they left the ring, the horse was a staggering mess.

                                  Did you go look at the videos? The masses CHEER the horses and riders, the bigger the lick the better. And it's also usually pretty well known who will be the current years WGC long before they get to actual class. It would take thousands of boo-ers to even get close to the roar of the crowd when the BL comes in the ring. And there are many thousands of folks who have left the showing world who have zero inclination of going back even to boo. They just took their horses and left the show ring competition and don't look back.

                                  They know. They don't care. They live for that cheap blue ribbon and having their name in the industry publication. It's their 15 minutes of fame that they hope to repeat over and over again.

                                  Rumor does say that a couple of well known trainers in the Shelbyville area are closing shop, making comments to the tune of they aren't willing to go to jail for a horse. So the current pressure being brought by AC and HSUS is working, no matter how much you dislike them.

                                  Comment


                                  • Ok. I stand corrected. At the hairline of the coronet.

                                    It is still a founder crawl, a heave-ho canter.
                                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                    Comment


                                    • It is good to know the stacker crowd is shrinking CleanUpTn. And that the numbers of TWHBEA members have fallen as well.

                                      But, unless there is a solid group of people in the ranks of TWHBEA - ther is not any way to influence TWH official registry. So again - kudos to the Preachers who stay in there to cast a vote and speak in opposition of status quo.
                                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                                        I have not read this thread. But I just wanted to say that I came home from my first Tennessee Walking Horse show. All big lick classes. I could only stomach staying for 3 classes.

                                        Nothing in my life prepared me for such a disgusting display of horse mistreatment. Nothing.
                                        You know, that is the way I felt after seeing those three and five gaited horses with their big wooden feet and tails in harness and being ridden upside down, obviously not really sound it seemed to me ... at their National Show in Madison Square Garden in the 1970's.

                                        Never seen anything like that and it did seem like a horrible way to train and treat horses.
                                        So much was wrong and absurd, from where I was coming from, I was appalled.

                                        In those days, we didn't see that really as "abuse", like we do today.
                                        Abuse was beating a horse, or doing what the BL and I suspect other such gaited breeds get done to today and maybe how they have always been treated.
                                        People would give those that did things they didn't agree with the stinky eye, but understood it was their right to do that, as a different way to enjoy their horses by some clueless people.
                                        Just go to some playdays and you will see some that makes you grit your teeth.

                                        On the other hand, those riders of the funny moving horses with the big feet were appalled that anyone would risk their and their horse's life going over big jumps like we did.

                                        I would say, today, if you ask, there will be some that don't like some others do, be it with animals or any other, for their own reasons.

                                        Where does our enjoyment of what some choose to do in life, with animals or any other, is ok, even if it is risky, where does it cross a line to define for all where we as humans should not go?

                                        Many think that professional sports are, like BL, something horrible, where people train and misuse drugs to become the best at it and try to beat others even if it injures and kills them and that is ok.
                                        No wonder some think we can do the same with animals, here horses.

                                        Where do you draw the line, again?

                                        Humanity has had gladiators and lions eating them since it started, it is part of who we seem to be.

                                        Do we think we should quit being like that, we need a new human?
                                        animal rights extremists think we do and stopping any use of animals is the only solution for them.

                                        For the rest of us, that do see why, how and when we can use animals and when we are crossing lines, we have to admit up front that YES, WE WILL USE ANIMALS and we will see how to do so responsibly for the goals at hand, of course.

                                        That is the big difference here, do you want to follow in the steps of those that think "the world would be better off without humans, so no animal was harmed", as one poster, HSUS member as per her words, just back from one of their conventions and glowing with their praise, stated some time back?

                                        THAT is why some of us are warning of following animal rights extremist groups and abetting them blindly.
                                        Just be careful, don't forget that what you think is ok to do with your animals hangs on the balance also when they are involved, there is no line there for them, any and all uses of animals by humans are abuse for them.

                                        I know where I stand, for animal welfare, that we have ways to control all and any we do, if it is something I like or strongly dislike, like gaited horses and the way they move, but don't dismiss what we do offhand because of some abuse or mismanagement.

                                        Why?
                                        Because there are others that like those horses and working with them, as I have been educated by the ones on COTH that have those horses.
                                        Why?
                                        Because others may also strongly dislike what I do with my horses, but I hope will respect that it is my right to do it, as long as I don't abuse them doing what I do.

                                        Again, then, where is that line?
                                        Ban BL because it is so grotesque?
                                        Because many seem to use terribly abusive ways to go about it?

                                        Ban slaughter because, well, it is slaughter, death and dismembering, the "ick" factor, distasteful?
                                        Because some documented some abuses and mismanagement, taking them out of context, to further their agendas of "no more domestic animals and none too soon for me"?

                                        I say, here, on a horse forum, we use horses by definition.
                                        Lets keep working for horse WELFARE, that is using our animals properly, stopping abuse and mismanagement where it is found.
                                        Lets not fall for the ones that are taking us for naive with their offers of help with welfare, while they keep advancing their ultimate agenda of no more animals in human hands.

                                        How to go about stopping abuses in BL?
                                        I would not know, but I would be careful to ask for a ban outright.
                                        I expect if some are right, there is no BL without abuse, it will die on it's own, once abuse is in the open and trainers go to jail for it, as they should.

                                        Yes, I agree, watching that BL is not something I would want to do, would not have lasted the first few minutes, as I don't watch boxing, Nascar, football or any such I really don't like for what is going on in there, just as others don't watch horse racing, or eventing, or rodeos.

                                        BUT, I would not want to ban it all because I think it is wrong.
                                        That is what is living where individual freedoms are for all, not just for those that think like the current ones in charge, as in dictatorships of all kinds.

                                        It is frustrating to be "the good guys" like we were at the track and have a few that keep breaking rules and doing illegal things, until caught.
                                        That didn't mean we should ban racing, just keep getting better at enforcing the rules.

                                        I wonder if in BL you can have your to me strange fun anyway, as long as you can keep after those that get there abusing the horses?
                                        That would be interesting to know.

                                        Comment


                                        • HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY! Those that wait on the other side for us, those that are now, and those that wanna be! HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY

                                          WOW! y'all have been busy! I tried to read and catch up, left off at #209 ~~~~ well I know y'all are keepin it real for the horse and our horse organizations, that need some reconstruction...

                                          HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X