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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Not sure if you all saw this video (dates yesterday) -

    http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...Ctext%7CSports
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver Equine Insurance Specialist

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
      hundredacres - wonder how many unregistered horses are there because ppl are boycotting breed registries- or how many owners have dropped memberhip after registration papers were transferred/finalized.
      Three in my barn. Was given papers on each of my horses at the time of sale, they are somewhere, dunno where. Never transfered them into my name because I won't give a damn dime to the TWHBEA. I know quite a few people in the circles I travel who feel the same way. Of course we value a really nice trail horse over big names in the bloodlines.

      Comment


      • What was the reason given for the mare not rising. I received a phone call from a person who told me a sore (d) horse would NOT lie down and be looking at its flank.

        They wondered if there was another reason such as the start of colic or could the horse have received a mild sedative?

        These are questions to which I have no response. Does anyone on COTH have first hand information?

        It is a long weekend so my professor of veterinary medicine is not available for a call from me until Tuesday
        The Elephant in the room

        Comment


        • Well then he's got a whole barn full of colicky/sedated horses. Because there were several DIFFERENT horses that were forced to get up. So I'm guessing your source is wrong. Way to spin it Leo.

          I highly doubt your vet professor can shed anymore light that we don't already have in our 2 brain cells that we collectively must rub together.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            I think we are past picking apart the video, Leo.

            Here is news from today:

            Lawmakers look at horse abuse


            http://www.tennessean.com/article/D4...yssey=obinsite
            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
              Well then he's got a whole barn full of colicky/sedated horses. Because there were several DIFFERENT horses that were forced to get up. So I'm guessing your source is wrong. Way to spin it Leo.

              I highly doubt your vet professor can shed anymore light that we don't already have in our 2 brain cells that we collectively must rub together.
              Mary...please leave your amnosity towards me from TROT over there. The person was giving me a question. I did not spin. I stated clearly I don't have ANY answers. I only knew about ONE mare that would not get up. I haven't seen the video "as I previously mentioned"

              That is why I am asking individuals who have the knowledge..I would trust a vet any day over your opinion
              The Elephant in the room

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                What was the reason given for the mare not rising. I received a phone call from a person who told me a sore (d) horse would NOT lie down and be looking at its flank.

                They wondered if there was another reason such as the start of colic or could the horse have received a mild sedative?

                These are questions to which I have no response. Does anyone on COTH have first hand information?

                It is a long weekend so my professor of veterinary medicine is not available for a call from me until Tuesday
                "Chemical colic" is a significant risk in show Walkers, per a former insurance agent we've used. They have the same mortality rating as a three day event horse. I find this significant.

                There are certainly some issues with parts of the video, but work with the stick and the cattle prod pretty much overshadow any "nit picking" about the rest.

                Not to mention the actual application of soring chemicals and wrapping in plastic wrap.

                G.
                Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Fairfax - you've not seen the video. And you want to ask the advice of someone else who has not seen the video or are you planning on sending it to him/her ? If not, this is ridiculous and a waste of time here. Are you just trying to raise your post count ?
                  from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                  Comment


                  • Instead of asking Congress to allocate $$ for enforcing the HPA, I think the folks who show them ought to pay for the enforcement. Let them bear the full cost of the HPA.

                    Hit their stinking pockets.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Love that.
                      from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                        "Chemical colic" is a significant risk in show Walkers, per a former insurance agent we've used. They have the same mortality rating as a three day event horse. I find this significant.

                        There are certainly some issues with parts of the video, but work with the stick and the cattle prod pretty much overshadow any "nit picking" about the rest.

                        Not to mention the actual application of soring chemicals and wrapping in plastic wrap.

                        G.
                        Thank you for the information. I am not taking away from the video (which I haven't seen) or any of the information.

                        I am against soring.

                        It is only the banning of equipment for training that could impact ALL breeds that is of concern to me.

                        This is an email I received from a person who is active within the legislative body and she reviews laws as to their relevance, accuracy and impact (not just equine)

                        Those TWH people have really opened a can of worms for the rest of the industry by allowing this crap to go on. Shame on them for not policing their own industry.

                        This is an election year and just watch the pols start grandstanding on this thing. This is going to be big! Plus, the fear of some undercover HSUS at any horse operation. Just think of how a chain twitch will play on the tube for the suburban housewives when doing some yearling or two year olds feet. Neck sweats with white lather; biting rigs, action chains for your industry, etc…you are all going to be screwed due to these individuals soring horses.

                        BTW, HSUS planted the employee and made the vid in 2011. This won't stop with the walking horse industry.
                        The Elephant in the room

                        Comment


                        • Do people ever demonstrate at Celebration?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                            s to their relevance, accuracy and impact (not just equine)

                            Those TWH people have really opened a can of worms for the rest of the industry by allowing this crap to go on. Shame on them for not policing their own industry.

                            This is an election year and just watch the pols start grandstanding on this thing. This is going to be big! Plus, the fear of some undercover HSUS at any horse operation. Just think of how a chain twitch will play on the tube for the suburban housewives when doing some yearling or two year olds feet. Neck sweats with white lather; biting rigs, action chains for your industry, etc…you are all going to be screwed due to these individuals soring horses.

                            BTW, HSUS planted the employee and made the vid in 2011. This won't stop with the walking horse industry.
                            For those of us who don't use any of those methods in other disciplines....bring it on. No guilt = no fear.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                              Do people ever demonstrate at Celebration?
                              I've wondered that too. Although after seeing recounts and video of the debacle in 2006 I admit I'd be afraid for my safety. It would have to be a huge throng of people.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                Mary...please leave your amnosity towards me from TROT over there. The person was giving me a question. I did not spin. I stated clearly I don't have ANY answers. I only knew about ONE mare that would not get up. I haven't seen the video "as I previously mentioned"

                                That is why I am asking individuals who have the knowledge..I would trust a vet any day over your opinion
                                Well this isn't so much about opinions as it fact.
                                FACT: The TWH in the name of BL has been abused in manners like this since the 50's. FACT: The TWHBEA has turned a blind eye for just as long. FACT: Someone (and I don't care who) finally got it ALL on tape for the whole world to see.

                                My opinion is, I'm glad for it and today at my age, I don't care who falls with them. I'll be dead and so will my horses before any fallout would affect me and what I do with horses. For that matter I'm guessing in 2 more generations the horse industry as a whole will be a mere shell of what it once was..This is an opinion.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                                  For those of us who don't use any of those methods in other disciplines....bring it on. No guilt = no fear.
                                  What is your discipline? Have any in your discipline ever used a pad on their horse? A rim pad even? A drop,crank,flash noseband? Stickers? Side reins? All of those can change a horse's "action". Tell me your discipline and I will find more for you to ponder.

                                  The proposed law is not specific enough.

                                  I do agree with having inspectors at all shows for soring. I also like the idea of having participants and show entities pay for it and not have the funds pulled from taxpayers.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
                                    Well this isn't so much about opinions as it fact.
                                    FACT: The TWH in the name of BL has been abused in manners like this since the 50's. FACT: The TWHBEA has turned a blind eye for just as long. FACT: Someone (and I don't care who) finally got it ALL on tape for the whole world to see.

                                    My opinion is, I'm glad for it and today at my age, I don't care who falls with them. I'll be dead and so will my horses before any fallout would affect me and what I do with horses. For that matter I'm guessing in 2 more generations the horse industry as a whole will be a mere shell of what it once was..This is an opinion.
                                    QUACK QUACK!!!!!!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by lifesabreeze View Post
                                      What is your discipline? Have any in your discipline ever used a pad on their horse? A rim pad even? A drop,crank,flash noseband? Stickers? Side reins? All of those can change a horse's "action". Tell me your discipline and I will find more for you to ponder.

                                      The proposed law is not specific enough.

                                      I do agree with having inspectors at all shows for soring. I also like the idea of having participants and show entities pay for it and not have the funds pulled from taxpayers.
                                      Mostly pleasure -trail, low level dressage and I'm new to hunt seat. And nope, never even used a martingale, but I have used side reins and I can live without them.

                                      Now, having said that I do realize and respect some of the devices as others use them. I'm just a no-fuss kind of rider,so while it doesn't impact me per se, I believe you do have a point and it could get hairy. BUT, I have no faith in an organized ban that would be broad enough to affect every equine industry.

                                      Remember when people were freaking out about the livestock GPS network? Remember it was going to "impact us all and we won't be able to ride our horses off the farm!!"??? I never believed that one either.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by lifesabreeze View Post
                                        QUACK QUACK!!!!!!!!
                                        Waaaah waaaah!

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                          What was the reason given for the mare not rising. I received a phone call from a person who told me a sore (d) horse would NOT lie down and be looking at its flank.

                                          They wondered if there was another reason such as the start of colic or could the horse have received a mild sedative?

                                          These are questions to which I have no response. Does anyone on COTH have first hand information?

                                          It is a long weekend so my professor of veterinary medicine is not available for a call from me until Tuesday
                                          The reason horses lay in their stalls is directly due to their feet hurting. I have gone to several TWH, and Racking horse shows, and you would be AMAZED at how many horses are laying flat out in their stalls, backs to their stall doors. 2 years ago, I went to the Racking Horse Celebration in Sommerville, AL. One aisle of the barn had maybe 10 stalls, and 6 of those horses were laying flat like pan cakes in their stalls. Several of the barns had horses laying flat. I have been to the BL barns, and I found this also there. SO SAD. Also they work those horses very hard. RARELY if ever in an outside "ring". They keep their work in the barn aisle's. And they are hard packed or concrete or asphalt. Seen it. They do not call the out door riding areas arenas, they are rings. Like a little track, small actually.

                                          I have been to many many horse shows over the years. 3 day eventing, dressage, endurance riding (competed lots), jumping, cutting, arab shows, etc. I recall rarely if ever seeing horses laying down, maybe only at night they were laying down. If so the horse was definitely snoozing and napping. The horses laying down in these shows were very infrequent if so not at all. TWH and Racking horse shows, lots and LOTS were pan cake flat. I saw many panting also. Some had blankets some not sometimes it was hot and some times it was not. This was in broad day light, lots of activity going on around the barns, and these gaited horses were laying in their stalls like pan cakes.

                                          I read this yesterday on Champagne Watchout’s facebook page. Yes he has his own facebook page.So that was a mare they had down in the stall. No clue if she was the one they were beating in the cross ties.

                                          "The horse, the sweet mare being beat in the stall is named "Sweet n Loco" has been removed and placed with someone who is diligently working to make her whole again..."

                                          I signed the online petition. I am in the 210 range.

                                          I would LOVE to go demonstrate. I live fairly close.

                                          I have discontinued my catalog's (didn't ask for them in the first place) from National Bridle. They sell like Bedford Tack all the TWH torture trainer goodies. If you have NEVER held one of those shoes in your hands, you are truly missing out. They weigh many many pounds some of the big ones. It is very shocking and sad. Bedford Tack sells them and many other heavy heavy shoes if you are in denial, go and lift one or two of them. On the front of the last cover of National Bridle it was odd because there was not TWH padded of course on the front cover. It is a picture of a little girl standing near a warmblood type horse, both are looking out ward, so you see them from behind. It is ONE FANCY barn. I actually looked to see who/where it was. No mention. Hmm. I got the catalog I think last Monday. Looked through it, still saw the same torture stuff. I called they were closed, so emailed my intent to be removed.

                                          Dover, Smart Pak, and many other do not sell this stuff. I do ride gaited on a Rocky Mt, but I ride in all dressage type tack. It is the most comfortable to me and for my horse. So we do. I have always ridden english/dressage.

                                          If you haven't already watched Champagne Watchout's 2 show videos, and read the press release page detailing what happened, you really should have a read. Also you need to READ about how they get around the soring, by drilling screws into their frogs, that way no stuff on their legs.

                                          I voted with my dollars on a different gaited horse. I bought her in late 07. I am riding all gaited now. I never have liked what I saw and witnessed with the padding, and chose to spend my money elsewhere. Great breed.

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