• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
    Except that there is no proof of that either, was just reported there after that was questioned, but not confirmed.
    So you are admitting that there is zero proof that HSUS sat on the video to shop it around. Thanks for your participation!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
      I've still seen no proof that HSUS sat on the video to "shop it around". I have seen proof that HSUS was asked by the USDA to NOT release the video until they had a chance to bring charges in this case.

      I'm guessing that those who believe Wheelon was busted as a convenience to attempt to get Haslam to veto the Ag Gag bill are also the one's who believe someone snuck in his barn the night before and sored up them horses.

      I'm also thinking, from the first release of the Wheelon video, that either a neighbor or an irritated owner put in the tip to lead to the arrest. Lord knows that everyone within a 100 mile radius already knew he sored horses, so someone made the decision to get serious.

      Yes! It is easy enough to see. And the HPA has lists upon lists of violators. Set up a couple of stings and things will be very different rather quickly.
      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
        HSUS started filming McConnell and i believe within 2 weeks contacted the USDA. They were told to keep filming, so they did for another 4 weeks. The USDA was case building and of course we didnt see the film for a while. The USDA did.
        So I guess you have to be a Big Gun to get the USDA to finally address the issue.
        No wonder those who like to stay under the radar are getting their panties all in a knot about the HSUS' involvement.
        ************************
        \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
          That would have to be Keith Daines who moved from the TWH Association over to HSUS. Many ALTERNATE shows and associations started up but I have been told there was always an element of fear regarding reporting (was told on this forum).

          I think there has been a lot of hand wringing but no one truly went the legal route consistently.
          Sorry, the Keith Dane thing don't fly. I've known Keith for about 15 years and it's been his desire to SAVE the horse in all that time. It's also one of the reasons he belongs at HSUS, because he knows first hand that of which he speaks. Keith has been able to bring more light to the woes of the TWH than any person in that position before.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
            Anyone with comments on this?
            That horse was very sore/lame. It probably didn't help when he ran on pavement and pulled a shoe. Poor thing. He probably didn't "steward" very well either or perhaps hadn't "learned" to yet.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
              There is no proof - only what is read on blogs or heard from others.

              ClanupTn - did you check out the video of the chestnut?
              Yes I did and a couple things of note.....I think it shows the chestnut after he escaped and just guessing, that is probably when the tail set and pad on his hoof were displaced. I'm not too sure that some of those people had ever encountered a sore padded horse before.....just in the way some of them were being led.

              Oh by the way, it's CLEAN up TN, not clan........don't want to get confused with that other hate group LOL

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                HSUS started filming McConnell and i believe within 2 weeks contacted the USDA. They were told to keep filming, so they did for another 4 weeks. The USDA was case building and of course we didnt see the film for a while. The USDA did. So much for them sitting on it for a year. I personally think the timing worked out pretty darn good for the TWH. There was time for the news to spread pre-Celebration. The Lickers thought it would blow over. They know now instead of getting blown out, the flame has been fanned this time.
                That's what I have been told as well. With how these type cases have gone in the past, I'm sure that the USDA wanted undeniable proof this time.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                  Yes I did and a couple things of note.....I think it shows the chestnut after he escaped and just guessing, that is probably when the tail set and pad on his hoof were displaced. I'm not too sure that some of those people had ever encountered a sore padded horse before.....just in the way some of them were being led.

                  Oh by the way, it's CLEAN up TN, not clan........don't want to get confused with that other hate group LOL
                  LOl where did I put that e...???
                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sunridge1 View Post
                    That horse was very sore/lame. It probably didn't help when he ran on pavement and pulled a shoe. Poor thing. He probably didn't "steward" very well either or perhaps hadn't "learned" to yet.
                    Did you take note of the coronet band? Appears to have effusions to me. And the rings...

                    My guess is the reason the horse did not pull foot off with the stack is that band was not tightened when they led them out. They are loosened when the horse is in the stall and tightened when the horse is worked.

                    The future raids need to provide some education to the handlers before they are put in harms way again. They need to get the tail sets off before they load them, lead them etc. And they need to be taught how to take a tail set off.

                    I am glad she is recovering.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                      So you are admitting that there is zero proof that HSUS sat on the video to shop it around. Thanks for your participation!
                      Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                      That's what I have been told as well. With how these type cases have gone in the past, I'm sure that the USDA wanted undeniable proof this time.
                      Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                      HSUS started filming McConnell and i believe within 2 weeks contacted the USDA. They were told to keep filming, so they did for another 4 weeks. The USDA was case building and of course we didnt see the film for a while. The USDA did. So much for them sitting on it for a year. I personally think the timing worked out pretty darn good for the TWH. There was time for the news to spread pre-Celebration. The Lickers thought it would blow over. They know now instead of getting blown out, the flame has been fanned this time.
                      That is not the way it was reported at first, but that they sat on it for months.
                      Even two weeks, you have to admit, was two weeks too many to the horses being abused.

                      That video spoke all in itself just fine the day it was filmed, didn't need any time to be any more damning.

                      Whatever way this happened, just remember, the HSUS is an animal rights extremist group and you have to count your fingers every time you shake hands with them, that is the way they have played the field, always demanding so much from the ones involved, to the HSUS advantage, of course.

                      Any time some defend the HSUS just because they SEEM to be helpful, as some are doing here, there are others here also that know what the game is.
                      Just a warning, in case some still have not caught to who the HSUS is and it is definitely not a friend of the animals but in the sense that they want to "free" them from humans as their ultimate goal.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post

                        The future raids need to provide some education to the handlers before they are put in harms way again. They need to get the tail sets off before they load them, lead them etc. And they need to be taught how to take a tail set off.
                        I was thinking the exact same thing and hit the reply button before I got it typed out.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                          I was thinking the exact same thing and hit the reply button before I got it typed out.
                          I am sure no matter it is not easy to handle an abused horse. You can not just be sweet to them - you have to be sure.

                          Hard, hard challenging stuff to do.
                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                          Comment


                          • There have been huge video's released to main stream media before.....I may not have the dates right but I think 1987, about 1998 and now the Jackie and Wheelon video's. That's 26 years in the making just to finally get a few of these scoundrels send to jail.

                            For those that think it's so incredibly easy to take the video and get it on national television, I again encourage and implore you to attend a TWH show, barn or sale this weekend and let me know how it works out for ya. Maybe you could be the next big thang since.........HSUS.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                              I am sure no matter it is not easy to handle an abused horse. You can not just be sweet to them - you have to be sure.

                              Hard, hard challenging stuff to do.
                              Very true. As a former DQP, I can surely attest to the fact that sore horses are not in a good frame of mind. And of course as with any animal much stronger than ourselves, it should just be common sense that no matter how much you want to help, the animal can still cause harm.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                HSUS started filming McConnell and i believe within 2 weeks contacted the USDA. They were told to keep filming, so they did for another 4 weeks. The USDA was case building and of course we didnt see the film for a while. The USDA did. So much for them sitting on it for a year. I personally think the timing worked out pretty darn good for the TWH. There was time for the news to spread pre-Celebration. The Lickers thought it would blow over. They know now instead of getting blown out, the flame has been fanned this time.


                                No more proof in your statement as I have read the same and it is always "according to HSUS CEO Wayne Pacelle.

                                Diane Sawyer expose' made all the difference in the world.

                                What I am surprised about, however, is that Keith, who has had an excellent reputation was unsuccessful. All the alternate shows...FOSH etc. accomplished nothing...or..very little "it would appear"

                                I think many continued to engage Roy with his writings and that has made it mainstream .. and successful.

                                I will just continue to watch..and hope the love in with HSUS stays within your breed..and I do agree with those who appear to be saying there is a different mindset with those who train show and own TWH's.

                                The anti BL crowd are tired of been kicked to the pavement and this is their opportunity to actually shine and appear to have some power..

                                At what cost will soon become apparant.
                                The Elephant in the room

                                Comment


                                • I have no idea what you are talking about Fairfax. But that's OK. Cause I do not think you have any idea either.
                                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                                    Very true. As a former DQP, I can surely attest to the fact that sore horses are not in a good frame of mind. And of course as with any animal much stronger than ourselves, it should just be common sense that no matter how much you want to help, the animal can still cause harm.
                                    As a former DQP - what do you think of the new proposal to have only USDA trained DQP for hire at approved HIO's?
                                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by CleanUpTN View Post
                                      Very true. As a former DQP, I can surely attest to the fact that sore horses are not in a good frame of mind. And of course as with any animal much stronger than ourselves, it should just be common sense that no matter how much you want to help, the animal can still cause harm.
                                      I realize you stated there were those who intimidated you and others ... almost like the mafia...

                                      so..are you saying you gave them a pass because of fear? Why were you unable to document and go to media outside Tenn. ?

                                      Helen told me, here in Canada, that she met a lot of resistance when she was going it alone to get BL outlawed.

                                      Keith had many opportunities and as a founder or strong member of the anti BL groups or anti soring shows..I would have thought he would have been able to garner some attention in the 15 or more years he was involved.

                                      Someone on this thread did state most plantation did nothing because they did not want to rock the boat AND also some were soring their horses.

                                      My question is...to readers here..are you going to continue to work with HSUS because Keith is involved? Have you out right asked him..and taped the response as to what the plans are for HSUS so you can learn if they are telling the truth? Or if they change their mind....Have you asked him who got the $10,000 for the latest bust?

                                      You accuse Bluey and I of not providing ENOUGH facts...especially clean up who has joined in very very late in the discussion..but none of you are going to YOUR source...Keith..and holding HIM accountable...Get HIM to speak up and out and allow himself to be quoted.

                                      Ask him if this is going to impact your shows in the future? Can he guarantee that? Will he put it in writing?

                                      Are they going to work towards legislation that will prosecute the owners of the sored (all divisions) TWH's. Can he provide proof of who he has spoken with in the government?

                                      Is he looking at shutting down Celebration and other large shows? If not...why not...If so..why?

                                      Ask him for proof that he is working with USEF to define weights and stacks allowed for shoes..if not..why not? If so...when, where and with whom did he speak

                                      I would like to read that posters..rather than hand wringing are actually doint soomething constructive and have proof they are doing it...most of the posts are just subjective...feelings..

                                      You dmand FACTS...GOOD FOR YOU...and now..

                                      PROVIDE SOME...
                                      The Elephant in the room

                                      Comment


                                      • Ignore is your friend.

                                        Comment


                                        • So in a nutshell you think the TWH world is hanging on the coat tails of Keith Dane?
                                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X