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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
    First, that "ag gag law" is misnamed.
    That law doesn't gag anyone.
    On the contrary, it demands people don't sit on proof of abuse for months, as animal rights extremist do.
    That law should be called "law to prevent abuse by animal rights groups".

    Just think, that is exactly what the HSUS did in this case right here.
    They were waiting with their proof of big lick abuse, shopping the videos around, until they got the best price for them.
    All along more horses were being abused.

    Second, how would you like it if someone wants to plant an animal rights extremist in your barn, that without you knowing it will video any and all you do and then edit it and say "see there, you are beating horses!" when what they have shows you maybe telling a colt not to walk all over you, but in the video it seems you are abusing that colt, the way the camera pans, over and over the same few frames?
    The music and voice over tells the viewer what they are seeing, that is not there, as so many animal rights extremist abuse videos show?

    I think that is what the other part of the law, the one that makes it a crime to lie on your application when you get hired.

    Just think about all of this for a while, learn more before thinking you have a good idea of what all these laws are about.
    Rhetoric of edited tapes and animal rights extremists play no part in this issue of soring TWH

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
      Rhetoric of edited tapes and animal rights extremists play no part in this issue of soring TWH
      So, I don't think your post is relevant to what I wrote.

      If you re-read my post, I was not responding to the BL abuses, but to the post mentioning those laws.

      Want to be the forum posting police, start with them.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
        Yawn, here we go yet again.First, that "ag gag law" is misnamed.
        That law doesn't gag anyone.The devil is in the details. The intent of this bill gags me.
        On the contrary, it demands people don't sit on proof of abuse for months, as animal rights extremist do.BS Bluey - cases take time to build.
        That law should be called "law to prevent abuse by animal rights groups".Nope. It should be called the law to penalize people concerned about animal WELFARE.

        Just think, that is exactly what the HSUS did in this case right here.
        They were waiting See above - it takes time to build a case.with their proof of big lick abuse, shopping the videos around, until they got the best price for them.
        All along more horses were being abused.Big Lick horses have been abused for decades. Now, because of the video, maybe it will end.

        Second, how would you like it if someone wants to plant an animal rights extremist in your barn, that without you knowing it will video any and all you do and then edit it and say "see there, you are beating horses!" when what they have shows you maybe telling a colt not to walk all over you, but in the video it seems you are abusing that colt, the way the camera pans, over and over the same few frames?Correcting a colt is a bit different from the common practices that get a Big Lick horse into the show ring. Oh and i have nothing to hide in my barn.
        The music and voice over tells the viewer what they are seeing, that is not there, as so many animal rights extremist abuse videos show?

        I think that is what the other part of the law, the one that makes it a crime to lie on your application when you get hired.

        Just think about all of this for a while,OMG are you kidding me? You think i dont think about it day and night ? learn more before thinking you have a good idea of what all these laws are about.
        Bluey lets just agree to disagree.
        from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
          Bluey lets just agree to disagree.
          Two wrongs will never make anything right.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            Real world - grey - not just black and white. Go preach to those who agree with you. You do nothing to draw those who disagree with you to your side. You hurt your cause. Just sayin.
            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
              So, I don't think your post is relevant to what I wrote.

              If you re-read my post, I was not responding to the BL abuses, but to the post mentioning those laws.


              Want to be the forum posting police, start with them.

              I'm not policing anything.

              Why would you bring up animal rights extremists and edited tapes on a thread devoted to TWH soring abuse? Neither of those issues apply here and were irrelevant to the thread.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                Real world - grey - not just black and white. Go preach to those who agree with you. You do nothing to draw those who disagree with you to your side. You hurt your cause. Just sayin.
                Just saying, the HSUS is right now holding abuse videos, they have promised to be releasing one a month, in their drive to eliminate all uses of animals.

                I think they did just the same with the BL videos waiting, not "to build a case", but to get all their ducks in a row to benefit their anti-animal use agenda best, not to stop abuse.
                Did some of the BL abuse videos they provided are a year old?

                That should not be right in ANYONE's book that really cares for animals.

                Glad that this is being addressed, that is true, but that doesn't mean we ought to give those that are doing wrong while addressing this a pass.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                  Just saying, the HSUS is right now holding abuse videos, they have promised to be releasing one a month, in their drive to eliminate all uses of animals.

                  I think they did just the same with the BL videos waiting, not "to build a case", but to get all their ducks in a row to benefit their anti-animal use agenda best, not to stop abuse.
                  Did some of the BL abuse videos they provided are a year old?

                  That should not be right in ANYONE's book that really cares for animals.

                  Glad that this is being addressed, that is true, but that doesn't mean we ought to give those that are doing wrong while addressing this a pass.
                  What a shame to be so incredibly paranoid. And paranoia is insidious.

                  No one is giving HSUS a "pass". Folks here are just damn glad the issue was finally brought in front of the public. Doesn't matter WHO did it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                    What a shame to be so incredibly paranoid. And paranoia is insidious.

                    No one is giving HSUS a "pass". Folks here are just damn glad the issue was finally brought in front of the public. Doesn't matter WHO did it.
                    It helps if you get involved with the HSUS on a local level. They CAN do good things. No need to be paranoid.


                    http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2013-04-23
                    Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                    Comment


                    • What is the Object of the Exercise?

                      If it's to stop the abuse soonest then the 24 hour rule is a Good Thing. It puts authorities on notice and, if they don't act, then they get to explain why to the cameras, microphones, etc.

                      If it's to build a case for prosecution then the 24 hour rule is questionable. It can take time to build a case for prosecution. Of course, while the case is building the pain for the horse is unremitted. That's a fact that the opponents seem to be willing to ignore.

                      In the McConnell matter HSUS had that video for long time. The public snippets show horrific images; I wonder what the rest of the raw video shows?

                      Frankly, "altered evidence" by proponents of a position is not so uncommon. That's why the Rules of Evidence anywhere that I'm aware of are quite specific about laying a proper foundation before it's admitted and presented to a fact finder. A requirement that the video or photo evidence presented to the authorities meet at least a minimum standard for admission into evidence is a Good Thing. I've worked as a volunteer in our local DA's office for almost 20 years and false charges with trumped up "proof" are part and parcel of the job. Indeed, since I'm at the bottom of the ladder, I'm one of the people who do some of the "digging" when questionable stuff is presented.

                      The biggest problems come from prosecutors*, police officers or private citizens, with "an ax to grind." I have been personally involved with multiple instances of out and out perjury by both types of prosecutors.

                      So this proposed "time limit law" has both positive and negative aspects. To call it a "gag law" is a gross, intentional distortion of fact. Shame on those who engage in such tactics. Fair minded people don't engage in such tactics. When they do we can conclude that they are not fair minded but rather are zealots intent on a goal without regard to the damage they might do while achieving their goal.

                      As a personal aside, I don't care if the whole cast of the Grand Ole Oprey shows up in the Governors office. They've got a right to an opinion like anyone else. That can sing and sell records does not make their opinion any more valid. Ditto for Hollyweird celebrities.

                      G.

                      *In TN the word "prosecutor" can mean an officer or civilian making a criminal charge. In some places they are called "complaining witnesses" or the like. They may also be the victim of a crime, but need not be.
                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                      Comment


                      • I don't find this a bad thing if it opens non-horsey eyes.


                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlKaE82Ls4A

                        http://www.humanesociety.org/news/pr...ll-042213.html
                        Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CFFarm View Post
                          Right, until they come after you just for being an "animal user", as they did the circus, with their bogus abuse card, that the circus went to court over and yes, the HSUS had paid $140,000 to someone to lay about the animals there being abused.

                          That is when the HSUS was caught, but who knows how many other times they are not?

                          Try to keep your eye on the ball.
                          When it comes to animal rights extremists is not being paranoid to think there is more than meets the eye in what they do, see previous paragraphs.
                          Some times, if you are paranoid or not, they really are after you.
                          The HSUS is after ALL our uses of animals.
                          Their "help" here just one more place for them to complain about humans being abusers, as they were here, with reason this time, maybe not when they come after what you do with your horses.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            Right, until they come after you just for being an "animal user", as they did the circus, with their bogus abuse card, that the circus went to court over and yes, the HSUS had paid $140,000 to someone to lay about the animals there being abused.

                            That is when the HSUS was caught, but who knows how many other times they are not?

                            Try to keep your eye on the ball.
                            When it comes to animal rights extremists is not being paranoid to think there is more than meets the eye in what they do, see previous paragraphs.
                            Some times, if you are paranoid or not, they really are after you.
                            The HSUS is after ALL our uses of animals.
                            Their "help" here just one more place for them to complain about humans being abusers, as they were here, with reason this time, maybe not when they come after what you do with your horses.
                            I think you need to get out more often .

                            In the real world, extremists of any kind do not win. If HSUS plans to take away all our animals, it will only happen to the poor and uneducated, who are used to being downtrodden. The intelligent, self sufficient, educated people will laugh out loud right in their faces.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                              I think you need to get out more often .

                              In the real world, extremists of any kind do not win. If HSUS plans to take away all our animals, it will only happen to the poor and uneducated, who are used to being downtrodden. The intelligent, self sufficient, educated people will laugh out loud right in their faces.
                              My AG teacher has a name for those extremists. He calls them the "God Save The Cockroach" people.

                              But anyways, you're completely right.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                National attention for the TWH and the Ag-Gag issues. WooHoo

                                http://www.ellentv.com/2013/04/24/sh...-help-animals/
                                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                Comment


                                • its on National TV,im doin the Happy Dance.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                    What is the Object of the Exercise?

                                    If it's to stop the abuse soonest then the 24 hour rule is a Good Thing. It puts authorities on notice and, if they don't act, then they get to explain why to the cameras, microphones, etc.

                                    If it's to build a case for prosecution then the 24 hour rule is questionable. It can take time to build a case for prosecution. Of course, while the case is building the pain for the horse is unremitted. That's a fact that the opponents seem to be willing to ignore.

                                    In the McConnell matter HSUS had that video for long time. The public snippets show horrific images; I wonder what the rest of the raw video shows?

                                    Frankly, "altered evidence" by proponents of a position is not so uncommon. That's why the Rules of Evidence anywhere that I'm aware of are quite specific about laying a proper foundation before it's admitted and presented to a fact finder. A requirement that the video or photo evidence presented to the authorities meet at least a minimum standard for admission into evidence is a Good Thing. I've worked as a volunteer in our local DA's office for almost 20 years and false charges with trumped up "proof" are part and parcel of the job. Indeed, since I'm at the bottom of the ladder, I'm one of the people who do some of the "digging" when questionable stuff is presented.

                                    The biggest problems come from prosecutors*, police officers or private citizens, with "an ax to grind." I have been personally involved with multiple instances of out and out perjury by both types of prosecutors.

                                    So this proposed "time limit law" has both positive and negative aspects. To call it a "gag law" is a gross, intentional distortion of fact. Shame on those who engage in such tactics. Fair minded people don't engage in such tactics. When they do we can conclude that they are not fair minded but rather are zealots intent on a goal without regard to the damage they might do while achieving their goal.

                                    As a personal aside, I don't care if the whole cast of the Grand Ole Oprey shows up in the Governors office. They've got a right to an opinion like anyone else. That can sing and sell records does not make their opinion any more valid. Ditto for Hollyweird celebrities.

                                    G.

                                    *In TN the word "prosecutor" can mean an officer or civilian making a criminal charge. In some places they are called "complaining witnesses" or the like. They may also be the victim of a crime, but need not be.
                                    Thank you for this post!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                      National attention for the TWH and the Ag-Gag issues. WooHoo

                                      http://www.ellentv.com/2013/04/24/sh...-help-animals/

                                      Yep! Yep! Yep!

                                      Totally agree with Ellen.
                                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                                        I think you need to get out more often .

                                        In the real world, extremists of any kind do not win. If HSUS plans to take away all our animals, it will only happen to the poor and uneducated, who are used to being downtrodden. The intelligent, self sufficient, educated people will laugh out loud right in their faces.
                                        Extremists DO win. Islam. Communism. And when the extremists make the laws, you don't have the option of "laughing out loud right in their faces."

                                        Comment


                                        • They may win the battle but they rarely if ever win the war.

                                          Comment

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