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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Has this series been posted? I've not seen it. I'm sure some will say it's old (2009) and not done anymore. I haven't watched the whole series.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z1wQDr2ns4
    Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      Thanks CFF. We may have posted it earlier but its still worth a watch !

      The latest from Roy. http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/3/1...ds-Really.aspx
      from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

      Comment


      • I have a question. What are the soundness effects of those horses reaching so far underneath themselves with their back legs? Their tendons are at an unnatural angle. The reason I ask is that I knew a family that pasture boarded a former TWH show mare at my barn. The horse's pasterns were shot. Her fetlocks almost touched the ground. Shoot, it's been awhile and I can't remember if it was her back pasterns or front pasterns. But I remember how shocking it looked. The owners said she was a good show mare and deserved retirement (their other TWHs were at their trainer's barn). The vet was out to put the mare down when she wasn't comfortable moving any faster than a walk. The mare was only 14 years old.
        “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

        St. Padre Pio

        Comment


        • Originally posted by microbovine View Post
          I have a question. What are the soundness effects of those horses reaching so far underneath themselves with their back legs? Their tendons are at an unnatural angle. The reason I ask is that I knew a family that pasture boarded a former TWH show mare at my barn. The horse's pasterns were shot. Her fetlocks almost touched the ground. Shoot, it's been awhile and I can't remember if it was her back pasterns or front pasterns. But I remember how shocking it looked. The owners said she was a good show mare and deserved retirement (their other TWHs were at their trainer's barn). The vet was out to put the mare down when she wasn't comfortable moving any faster than a walk. The mare was only 14 years old.
          IMO the entire "padding" program causes grossly negative long and short term consequences for movement across the entire suspension system. I've personally observed hip, stifle, hock, fetlock, and shoulder injuries. Not to mention highly abnormal hoof shape.

          Breeders also select for "sickle hocks" as a bent hock allows for a longer overstep. This also seriously weakens the structure of the leg. Many laterally gaited horses will have slightly longer rear legs that a similarly conformed trotting horse. This results in the illusion of a "downhill" conformation. Al long as the additional length is modest it's really not much of an issue.

          G.
          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

          Comment


          • I have seen older BL's with DSLD on the hinds.

            Comment


            • It was her hinds. Now, I remember. Her head was down a lot and she didn't lean forward, but she was keeping more weight on her fronts. She took a long time to start moving and avoided going uphill. I don't have any pictures of her, but it was really shocking to see how her fetlocks almost touched the ground. I only saw the owners stop by once. They were odd.
              “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

              St. Padre Pio

              Comment


              • Just watching the videos of the stacked horses along with knowing some folks who showed stacked horses - they do run into hock, suspensory and stiffle problems.

                I may be wrong on this but I think it is part of the reason a lot of stacked horses stand with the fronts way under them - to get the weight off the tired hinds.

                And as a side note - I have a gaiter (possibly TWH) with blown hind suspensories and UPF (though I have not seen him lock in years). When he is not comfortable (hinds swollen or shifting weight or wall sitting) he will stand with both fronts under his body.
                from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                Comment


                • can someone help,was it 7 violation a day at the Trainers Show,or only 7 violations for the entire show.i have been unable to find the true violation count.

                  Comment


                  • Hurleycane, that was how she stood sometimes. Not leaning forward, but keeping her front feet under her and her head balanced. When she grazed, her legs were in a more forward position, but she didn't reach for blades of grass in front so much, if that makes sense. I wish I had a picture. I hope I never see a horse like that again. When the other horses were feeling good, all she did was to pick up her head and tail and do a lot of snorting.

                    She finally was put down. A lot later than was probably best. Her family wasn't there for it.
                    “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

                    St. Padre Pio

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by aarpaso View Post
                      can someone help,was it 7 violation a day at the Trainers Show,or only 7 violations for the entire show.i have been unable to find the true violation count.
                      http://forthetnwalkinghorse.blogspot.com/ - Try this site- you may find the information you are looking for there.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by microbovine View Post
                        I have a question. What are the soundness effects of those horses reaching so far underneath themselves with their back legs?
                        From what I have seen in the show ring the horses have big issues with their hind ends. Most you see going around the arena, it is a sad sight to see, start to appear to crab walk to one side or the other and lead with their hind end. Due to them being sore in their body. It is a sight to see. Sad one that is. I have seen many hunters bump from where they have hurt their croups from such odd and man-made movements.

                        You should watch some show video and then decide for yourself where, what, etc body parts will be damaged. Short term or long term. Don't forget their hooves are padded.

                        Also their brains are messed up. IOW they are not comfortable with people on the ground, but are ok once they are on and riding. Long term also is that sometimes can not adapt to a simple trail life or pasture life. They don't always know how to care for themselves. Every example I have given above I have seen time and time again.

                        Comment


                        • Here is a link to an artist's site that prefers her photos not be copied. On the page are drawings that depict what is wrong with stacking a horse. It may or may not have been her intention. But I think sometimes art depicts what words fail to convey.

                          http://koni.weebly.com/equine---twh.html
                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            http://chattanoogan.com/2013/3/23/24...mmy-Trick.aspx

                            On the surface it appears that House Bill 1191 heading for a vote in the Tennessee Legislature next week appears pretty stupid. It requires anyone gathering evidence of animal abuse to call the authorities within 24 to 48 hours and turn over any video or pictures within such a time frame. Nothing wrong with that – seems to be common sense and it seems frivolous to even have such a law on the books to demand that of the state’s citizenry.

                            But, no, that’s not what the bill is about. It is a thinly-veiled effort by evil people who would hurt animals for cheap blue ribbons and who don’t want to get caught. The state’s leading newspaper, The Nashville Tennessean, calls the bill “a subterfuge.” And while other critics can’t believe the state’s Agriculture Committee even dared send it to the full House, the great majority of honest horsemen and horsewomen across our state now have a far cruder term for the pending legislation.

                            Let’s face it -- the state of Tennessee leads the nation in horse abuse. It can also be said it leads the world – no other nation purposely hobbles horses for an unnatural gait. But with the Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration now nationally-recognized as the cradle of an industry that awards the sadistic torture and soring of magnificent animals, there is now a scathing bill before our nation’s Congress that could rein in over 40 years of wanton – and flagrant – abuse of the federal Horse Protection Act.

                            The Congressional bill is because of festering evil still rooted in the town of Shelbyville (Pop. 2,536) but as we wait to see what a dysfunctional Congress will do, the Shelbyville hierarchy has sprung a new little trick. It reflects exactly the type of people who today control a beautiful pastime and a magnificent breed that has become infested with cheating owners, trainers who are now felons, and more animals dying early of “colic” than you can believe.

                            This coming week we will learn if the legislature can be tricked by deception. The “magicians” are two darlings well known to animal rights advocates for the wrong reasons. The clever ploy that Rep. Andy Holt (R-Dresden) and Senator Delores Gresham (R-Somerville) want you to fall for is that it would require urgency. What these two want you to see is the urgency up front – not the backside where after 48 hours the undercover evidence could not be used, according to the proposed state law.

                            Obviously the nauseating ABC News tape of the sadistic horse trainer Jackie McConnell did irrefutable damage to those who relish “The Big Lick” when it was shown to the public last spring. The tape itself, made by an undercover officer of the Humane Society of the United States, was actually taken some months before in order to build a case. As any fool knows, it often takes longer than 24 to 48 hours to stop evil.

                            And you know what the wretches behind the scenes call those who bravely catch louts like Jackie McConnell and his ilk? “Video terrorists.” Don’t you love that?

                            The disgusting “Big Lick” crowd, ready to “re-brand” themselves this spring as the Performance Show Horse Association (I am not making this up … laugh all you want but it’s true!) has fought and defied the U.S. Department of Agriculture, every animal rights organization in the country and the leading equine veterinary groups in every way imaginable to keep their most unsavory money machine alive. Desperate people will do anything.

                            So now they get their “aces” in the legislature (Holt and Gresham) to create an urgency – that’s the kicker -- if any tape or photos are over 48 hours old they’re illegal! Name a thug that wouldn’t like a deal where evidence obtained undercover is tossed out because of a new state law! It is totally disgusting but Rep. Holt, you’ll recall, is the guy who wants slaughter houses for horses in Tennessee, claiming we can make money sending horse meat to Europe and other savage lands.

                            Last year the Legislature made horse abuse a felony, punishable with up to five years in prison, effective July 1. While there were numerous violations of the federal Horse Protection Act found in August at the National Walking Horse Celebration, no one arrest was made by the Shelbyville police or the Bedford County sheriff’s office, which mystified horse advocates across the country but suited the Big Lickers just fine.

                            Now the “Big Lick” boys are winking at the legislature. Don’t pay attention to crafty little crummy people. They are the real terrorists.

                            royexum@aol.com
                            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Here is the Tennessean article that Roy refers to:




                              http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...ON01/303190024
                              from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                              Comment


                              • Roy is the man.

                                That foot in the Tennessean article is horrid.
                                from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                Comment


                                • I have deep reservations about "citizens vigilance committee law enforcement."

                                  If there is credible evidence of cruelty then it should be produced to the proper authority. If that authority fails to act then present the copies of said evidence to your local representatives of the Fourth Estate.

                                  I don't see the TN law as being unfair or unreasonable. I find "stockpiling" of evidence of animal cruelty despicable. What's happening while amateurs are sleuthing about?

                                  I'll let my local reps know that I support the law as proposed.

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                    http://chattanoogan.com/2013/3/23/24...mmy-Trick.aspx

                                    On the surface it appears that House Bill 1191 heading for a vote in the Tennessee Legislature next week appears pretty stupid. It requires anyone gathering evidence of animal abuse to call the authorities within 24 to 48 hours and turn over any video or pictures within such a time frame. Nothing wrong with that – seems to be common sense and it seems frivolous to even have such a law on the books to demand that of the state’s citizenry.

                                    But, no, that’s not what the bill is about. It is a thinly-veiled effort by evil people who would hurt animals for cheap blue ribbons and who don’t want to get caught. The state’s leading newspaper, The Nashville Tennessean, calls the bill “a subterfuge.” And while other critics can’t believe the state’s Agriculture Committee even dared send it to the full House, the great majority of honest horsemen and horsewomen across our state now have a far cruder term for the pending legislation.

                                    Let’s face it -- the state of Tennessee leads the nation in horse abuse. It can also be said it leads the world – no other nation purposely hobbles horses for an unnatural gait. But with the Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration now nationally-recognized as the cradle of an industry that awards the sadistic torture and soring of magnificent animals, there is now a scathing bill before our nation’s Congress that could rein in over 40 years of wanton – and flagrant – abuse of the federal Horse Protection Act.

                                    The Congressional bill is because of festering evil still rooted in the town of Shelbyville (Pop. 2,536) but as we wait to see what a dysfunctional Congress will do, the Shelbyville hierarchy has sprung a new little trick. It reflects exactly the type of people who today control a beautiful pastime and a magnificent breed that has become infested with cheating owners, trainers who are now felons, and more animals dying early of “colic” than you can believe.

                                    This coming week we will learn if the legislature can be tricked by deception. The “magicians” are two darlings well known to animal rights advocates for the wrong reasons. The clever ploy that Rep. Andy Holt (R-Dresden) and Senator Delores Gresham (R-Somerville) want you to fall for is that it would require urgency. What these two want you to see is the urgency up front – not the backside where after 48 hours the undercover evidence could not be used, according to the proposed state law.

                                    Obviously the nauseating ABC News tape of the sadistic horse trainer Jackie McConnell did irrefutable damage to those who relish “The Big Lick” when it was shown to the public last spring. The tape itself, made by an undercover officer of the Humane Society of the United States, was actually taken some months before in order to build a case. As any fool knows, it often takes longer than 24 to 48 hours to stop evil.

                                    And you know what the wretches behind the scenes call those who bravely catch louts like Jackie McConnell and his ilk? “Video terrorists.” Don’t you love that?

                                    The disgusting “Big Lick” crowd, ready to “re-brand” themselves this spring as the Performance Show Horse Association (I am not making this up … laugh all you want but it’s true!) has fought and defied the U.S. Department of Agriculture, every animal rights organization in the country and the leading equine veterinary groups in every way imaginable to keep their most unsavory money machine alive. Desperate people will do anything.

                                    So now they get their “aces” in the legislature (Holt and Gresham) to create an urgency – that’s the kicker -- if any tape or photos are over 48 hours old they’re illegal! Name a thug that wouldn’t like a deal where evidence obtained undercover is tossed out because of a new state law! It is totally disgusting but Rep. Holt, you’ll recall, is the guy who wants slaughter houses for horses in Tennessee, claiming we can make money sending horse meat to Europe and other savage lands.

                                    Last year the Legislature made horse abuse a felony, punishable with up to five years in prison, effective July 1. While there were numerous violations of the federal Horse Protection Act found in August at the National Walking Horse Celebration, no one arrest was made by the Shelbyville police or the Bedford County sheriff’s office, which mystified horse advocates across the country but suited the Big Lickers just fine.

                                    Now the “Big Lick” boys are winking at the legislature. Don’t pay attention to crafty little crummy people. They are the real terrorists.

                                    royexum@aol.com
                                    Without looking at the bill itself, I would assume it's one of those AG Gag laws that are being/have been introduced in several different states?
                                    ************************
                                    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                    Comment


                                    • its time for ole Jackie the Jerk to face the JUDGE,March 28,2013.will he have to really set the standard for abusive trainers.i HOPE and PRAY they go all the way.

                                      Comment


                                      • Update on Jackie McConnell, John Mayes, and Jeffrey Dockerey Tennessee State Trial in Sommerville, Fayette County, TN.

                                        Today the Fayette County Grand Jury returned a TRUE BILL~

                                        (n. the written decision of a grand jury (signed by the grand jury foreperson) that it has heard sufficient evidence from the prosecution to believe that an accused person probably committed a crime and should be indicted. Thus, the indictment is sent to the court.)

                                        22 counts against Jackie McConnell for Animal Abuse, 3 Counts Animal Abuse against Jeff Dockerey, 2 count Animal Abuse John Mayes.

                                        About 5 counts of Jackie’s arise from being charged with each of the charges the two other fellas as The Owner/Boss/Manager.

                                        The speculation is that the defense attorneys are doing everything they can to plead out to avoid a trial.

                                        The mood of the ADA is what I would describe as reserved, they know they have a solid, solid case, based on the admissions and convictions in Federal Court, it really is a fish in the barrel situation ~~~~ should it go to trial it would be this summer~~~

                                        Lives have been changed ~~~~ not only for these three fellas and their families, but the owners, trainer’s, shows venues, all have had to adjust their future.

                                        Who benefits from all of this? The horse of the present and future, not just this breed, but any other and all breeds that may engage in abusive practices. You know,

                                        I'm gonna add one more to he beneficiary list...the horse of the past, who has been taken down off of those God awful pads or heavy shoes, allowed to sound up and run, kick up their heels which they probably have not done since they were babies..

                                        It needed to be done folks, we must keep the pressure on those that still believe that it is okay to sore these horses, and then look you straight in the face and say “No I didn’t!”

                                        Let them get called out for a ticket and everybody in the world is conspiring against them to single them out for persecution.

                                        God has said “Enough!” Do you not know that God cares about the earth, his creations, and our hearts? and if you speak on it or do anything for the cessation of these practices…you walk on the side of angels.

                                        The Preacher

                                        Comment


                                        • Thanks for posting Preacher. WOOHOO!!!!

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