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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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    • Originally posted by aarpaso View Post
      First i'd like to say,sometimes to get to the truth ya gotta go to the street/barn of the offender.if you have not spent time in the runway of a Big lick barn and seen the pain and suffering.than ya best not point a finger at those who have.

      and preacher you call those folks the BL faction while I call them the Shelbyville slime run by Mob boss Howard.it has been going on for yrs.those Twhbea commitees are handled by Howard's yes people.

      Now I don't know what the beef is between you and Ms Andrea but lets not air it on this thread PLEASE try and keep it about what is happening to the Tn walking horse.

      Thanks for sharing Preacher,i agree until the Flat Shod and trail riders Stand-up and Twhbea does what it claims (its a breed registry).and register the TWH only and tell DH to go pound sand.
      Maybe it's just me, but I don't need to get down and wallow in pig shit to know it's gonna ruin my clothes and stink like hell. I have gone to a few shows and lurked around the shrouded barns. Got one licker to assure me the saran wrap was to keep the legs clean. And that's way more contact than I want to have with those evil, abusive bastards.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
        Would you two quit poking at each other, please ?
        It sounds childish, but if we read through the thread, he started it. And if he stops, I'll stop. I won't not stand up for myself against his tyranny against me. I have done nothing but help fight to end soring--I just didn't do what Nate wanted me to do in the past and now I'm his target. I've read all kinds of lies and crap he's spread about me that are just plain untrue, and I think I have a right to defend myself. Anyone who knows why he's been kicked off of multiple online forums, Facebook pages, and kicked out of various HIOs and meetings knows why he spreads the lies, too.

        Overall, I've learned that there are a lot of people in the TWH industry, both sound and sore, who will give you hell if you don't do what they think you should be doing. Egos are rampant and are one reason we can't solve this issue in a black and white matter.

        But hey, if you guys want to read his diatribes about how great he is and how much experience he has being black and a former nurse and blah, blah, blah, enjoy. Quite frankly, bragging about oneself doesn't get the job done that we need to get done.

        That being said, I'll leave it alone if Nate will. I'm happy to work to help save the horse--I've been doing it long enough now that I hear the work I've done has made a huge difference. Whether it's true or not I'm not sure, but I'm glad me and people like at least talked about because it means they're scared!
        Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
        www.forthetwh.com

        Comment


        • Originally posted by gogaitedgo View Post
          Maybe it's just me, but I don't need to get down and wallow in pig shit to know it's gonna ruin my clothes and stink like hell. I have gone to a few shows and lurked around the shrouded barns. Got one licker to assure me the saran wrap was to keep the legs clean. And that's way more contact than I want to have with those evil, abusive bastards.
          Agreed. I've witnessed soring in California and Arizona by BNTs in the industry, and was told all the same lies that the abusers and cheaters and lickers love to tell. When I learned the truth I was beyond shocked. You don't have to been in TN to witness abuse against the TWH.
          Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
          www.forthetwh.com

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
            ANd hey! - when my geldings are out in the field romping playing and acting all jacked up for nothing - should I be looking in the leaves for the evil doers?????
            Just because a horse goes romping for a few minutes in the field with his head up and his back inverted doesn't mean he needs to be jacked up for longer than that just for the show ring, or that he needs to live in a bitting rig in a stall or have his tail braced. Horses are lazy animals by nature--they don't run around with their heads up 24/7.

            I would say that ALL of the horses I know--yes, even ASBs--prefer to keep their head at wither level or lower when eating, sleeping, dozing, and just all around hanging out and being lazy like horses do. Why not encourage a calm, quiet, easy-going horse by keeping him long and low rather than jack him up and force him to be in the fright position all the time?

            Well, I'm sure we all know the true answer to that.
            Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
            www.forthetwh.com

            Comment


            • Originally posted by aarpaso View Post
              here is a look see for ya.

              http://www.walkinghorseclubky.com/category/articles/

              could this man have HPA violations?
              The Roaches have violations in general. I'm sure he's no exception.
              Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
              www.forthetwh.com

              Comment


              • TWHBEA reverses itself and opens up proposed closed invitation only meeting to all members.

                Another event impacted by the caring and active social media people who take their time out to make calls and write emails. ~~~~

                ALL of the horses appreciate your efforts and it has not gone unnoticed.
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                TWHBEA Performance Horse Summit - Open Meeting and Slight Postponement

                Due to interest in the Performance Horse Summit, TWHBEA announces that the event will be open to all Tennessee Walking Horse 'stakeholders' and industry organizations. RSVP's will be necessary for planning purposes. Because of this change, as well as schedule conflicts, TWHBEA will postpone this event for a short duration. Please watch for more upcoming information, date and speaker line-up. If you have any questions, please contact Christy Lantis, TWHBEA Vice President - Performance Horse, at 760.963.1856 or clantis@twhbea.com
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                I was told by a couple of the Executive Committee Members who were present when the original proposition was presented, they all said,"They knew why the exclusion clause was put in there and that was to keep me out...They said everyone there knew.

                Well I requested to be put on their Guest Speaker List, ~~~ hoping its not filled

                So I'll give ya my slant on what I think will happen next; They are weighing whether or not they could get the Padded Horse Division of TWHBEA to throw their hat in the ring by joining this new HIO Organization who are trying to get around the laws penalizing them if they violate the HPA Law.

                They probably right now are trying to set up a meeting, probably at the Celebration grounds AGAIN, so they can make it a closed invitation only meeting like the one they kicked me, Jennie and baby Olivia out of.

                Comment


                • As president Lincoln parlayed the terms for surrender of the South, he wanted to not punish the Southern folks for their decision to cede from the Union and fight against it.

                  Many many, people in the Northern government wanted to strip everything from the Southerners, guns, land, holdings ~~~ he had major fights with those who wanted retribution.

                  When he dies, his successor Johnson decided to break with party affiliations and continue Lincolns proposal of not reeking hell on the southerns, he was so reviled by his own party that they impeached him for that change in affiliations.

                  What I am trying to do and have been doing is convince people that we utterly HATE, HATE whats going on with these horses....and that we want all nefarious behavior to cease never to return.

                  However, my side of the coin says this; we allow the people a chance for redemption, a new way of treating horses, a different attitude towards ex-lickers, now most of my lickers friends tell me that even though they have ceased and desisted they still like the way a PH moves ~~~ and its okay to have feelings towards something that has changed ~~~

                  There were allot of people who obeyed the laws when prohibition came in, but they would tell ya that they still loved to drink, but would not because the laws had changed.

                  This is how I feel about these people, yeah, some are real hard core, I've had many people point their fingers right at me and tell me in person or with the written word that "I am the one that destroyed this breed!"

                  I say no, not the breed, a division, yes!

                  I do not classify these folks as enemy, people that must be destroyed ~~~ what they do? Hell yeah!

                  This is what I mean by toning it down let people have some wiggle room to change their lifestyles. ~~~~ So there is my argument, disagreement or displeasure with brutal attacks on the people.

                  Back any animal into a corner, you risk seeing behavior you may not have been prepared for or wanted.

                  Comment


                  • This post is for thousands who have taken up the cause of the TWH, I found this video that I think will be very very helpful and useful in understand the different shoes within the breed.

                    I think is was a good video well done by Bob Roach differentiating from the Stamped Keg Shoe to the Big Lick Padded horse ~~~

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=hWJisXtyeL4#!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FortheTWH View Post
                      Just because a horse goes romping for a few minutes in the field with his head up and his back inverted doesn't mean he needs to be jacked up for longer than that just for the show ring, or that he needs to live in a bitting rig in a stall or have his tail braced. Horses are lazy animals by nature--they don't run around with their heads up 24/7.

                      I would say that ALL of the horses I know--yes, even ASBs--prefer to keep their head at wither level or lower when eating, sleeping, dozing, and just all around hanging out and being lazy like horses do. Why not encourage a calm, quiet, easy-going horse by keeping him long and low rather than jack him up and force him to be in the fright position all the time?

                      Well, I'm sure we all know the true answer to that.
                      See where you lose perspective? You call it a fright position. It is also a play position. And for the record - a roundy round does not last near as long as my ole boys play - of their own accord mind you.

                      Like my mix breed boxer type dog - who is exuberant as all get out - a well fed and bred and sound entertained horse loves to move, move out, use their bodies and play.

                      Cause it feels good to them.

                      Not cause they are scared.
                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                      Comment


                      • To all the et all pointers - I just want to say I really do love reading Nate's perspective and I would love reading yours if you would quit trying to make people chose one over the other. There is plenty room for independent thinking even on this topic.

                        And G - what you pointed out about the show ring not really holding much weight in the big scheme of things holds true for any human travesty. Look at any plea for help to feed the children, home the homeless and such. No doubt it is because harm, evil, loss and injustice plays out over and over and has been a constant throughout all time.

                        WHen has there not been conflict and strife? It is a part of life. All we have ever been able to do is chose which side we are going to represent.
                        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
                          However, my side of the coin says this; we allow the people a chance for redemption, a new way of treating horses, a different attitude towards ex-lickers, now most of my lickers friends tell me that even though they have ceased and desisted they still like the way a PH moves ~~~ and its okay to have feelings towards something that has changed ~~~

                          There were allot of people who obeyed the laws when prohibition came in, but they would tell ya that they still loved to drink, but would not because the laws had changed.

                          This is how I feel about these people, yeah, some are real hard core, I've had many people point their fingers right at me and tell me in person or with the written word that "I am the one that destroyed this breed!"

                          I say no, not the breed, a division, yes!
                          No kidding, Nate--I've been accused of destroying the breed too. Sadly they don't like it when they're challenged. They also won't take responsibility for their own actions. THEY have destroyed it by not listening to the hundreds of people who have told them time and time again that they are making these mistakes. It's just good that we now have their skeletons out of the closet and they will fail because of it.

                          I have TONS of respect for anyone who used to sore and then says I can't do this anymore. Dr. Pam Reband is one of my heroes because not only did she stop soring, she also stood up against it in a time when you just DID NOT SAY A WORD (1995). She started the modern sound movement, IMHO.

                          I would be more than happy to forgive TWHBEA, the sore HIOs, and anyone in general if they stood up and said yes, we were wrong, we were supporting the sore horse. We are sorry and we're going to stop it now. It would be a wonderful day indeed if they would just STOP.
                          Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                          www.forthetwh.com

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                            See where you lose perspective? You call it a fright position. It is also a play position. And for the record - a roundy round does not last near as long as my ole boys play - of their own accord mind you.

                            Like my mix breed boxer type dog - who is exuberant as all get out - a well fed and bred and sound entertained horse loves to move, move out, use their bodies and play.

                            Cause it feels good to them.

                            Not cause they are scared.
                            Actually, my horses were playing today, and they were ducking their heads and chasing after each other with heads long and low. Our older gelding and our youngest gelding will try to grab each others' legs to "knock each other down," like stallions in the wild. They'll jerk their heads up to bite at each others faces, then duck down and buck and run with their heads level or just above their withers.

                            But you've missed the point, of course. Even if they're just playing, they're STILL in the head up position for only a little while. I think pretty much all horses that have their heads jacked up DO NOT prefer to go that way for a few hours a day or in the ring or to be jacked up in bitting rigs in their stalls. Head up for a long period of time = chronic back, neck, jaw, poll pain. I've seen it in "used up" ASBs and TWHs. Back pain leads to fear and aggression. Again, this is all for the humans, not the horses. And if those who enjoy this look truly cared about the horses themselves like they say they do, they wouldn't treat them like a machine.

                            Oh, but MY horses are okay! They're not hurting at all! That's because the owners choose not to see the truth. It's why people continue to use drugs in equine competition, why the bits get harsher, why the training methods get more severe.

                            As someone said about the TWH industry: "If horses could scream, you'd never get away with this." This is true of ALL disciplines that encourage, promote, and defend a painful frame and methods of training of the horse in rail classes.
                            Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                            www.forthetwh.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by FortheTWH View Post
                              Actually, my horses were playing today, and they were ducking their heads and chasing after each other with heads long and low. Our older gelding and our youngest gelding will try to grab each others' legs to "knock each other down," like stallions in the wild. They'll jerk their heads up to bite at each others faces, then duck down and buck and run with their heads level or just above their withers.

                              But you've missed the point, of course. Even if they're just playing, they're STILL in the head up position for only a little while. I think pretty much all horses that have their heads jacked up DO NOT prefer to go that way for a few hours a day or in the ring or to be jacked up in bitting rigs in their stalls. Head up for a long period of time = chronic back, neck, jaw, poll pain. I've seen it in "used up" ASBs and TWHs. Back pain leads to fear and aggression. Again, this is all for the humans, not the horses. And if those who enjoy this look truly cared about the horses themselves like they say they do, they wouldn't treat them like a machine.

                              Oh, but MY horses are okay! They're not hurting at all! That's because the owners choose not to see the truth. It's why people continue to use drugs in equine competition, why the bits get harsher, why the training methods get more severe.

                              As someone said about the TWH industry: "If horses could scream, you'd never get away with this." This is true of ALL disciplines that encourage, promote, and defend a painful frame and methods of training of the horse in rail classes.
                              It has been said that owners resemble their pets.

                              I just wonder...do you own pitbulls?
                              The Elephant in the room

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by FortheTWH View Post
                                I don't understand, then. It just seemed a bit ridiculous to be talking about how to use mechanics for training on ASBs when the title of the thread is "Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue."

                                Overall, I don't poke my nose in the ASB folks' business. I don't go on ASB threads and talk about how TWHs are trained.
                                Read your own words, FortheTWH. If you want to start a thread to talk about Saddlebred training please start a new one.

                                Comment


                                • Again - as was suggested - their are pointers here who refuse to really go check it out.

                                  GA-RAN-DAM-TEE-YA - no one is jacking up a saddlebred as you stated AND having success!!!!

                                  There are stupid people on the wrong track in any walk of life trying to immitate stuff - and it seems you have run into every single idiot on earth... And if so, that makes you pretty unlucky.

                                  But I think the reality is your statements show you do not have a.n.y. real experience with saddlebreds and you are just making suppositions.

                                  Take a walk in the real world and you just might find a reality that causes you to think and re-think.

                                  Not just imagine.
                                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                  Comment


                                  • And I want to add that making stuff up is the sort of stuff that professional horsemen will not likely do. This is why I have stated all along professional horsemen is what it will take to get meaningful change for the TWH. The shit that is happening to this breed needs no exaggeration to turn a head and get the deserved condemnation that real horse folks would give it.

                                    And who determines who is real or not real horseman? Well, I would say the push for HR6388 only took on a potential legitimacy when the Vet associations pointed to adoption of rules such as set out by USEF as being the only real solution.

                                    BTW - I did get a response from NWHA on the Calsonic Arena questions. They did say they will show under their own HIO. They are in no way associating themselves with the SHOW HIO. I brought up my concern that they are aligning to avoid the eminent pressure of HR6388 (NWHA does use heavy shoes for "action") and that they may lose sight of obtaining legitimacy for the TWH by forfeiting the potential to gain USEF full acceptance.

                                    IMO association with USEF is the only way to get the TWH the legitimacy and protection as a breed that it deserves.

                                    NWHA has the potential to do that - and I hope they do not lose sight of it.
                                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                      Again - as was suggested - their are pointers here who refuse to really go check it out.

                                      GA-RAN-DAM-TEE-YA - no one is jacking up a saddlebred as you stated AND having success!!!!

                                      There are stupid people on the wrong track in any walk of life trying to immitate stuff - and it seems you have run into every single idiot on earth... And if so, that makes you pretty unlucky.

                                      But I think the reality is your statements show you do not have a.n.y. real experience with saddlebreds and you are just making suppositions.

                                      Take a walk in the real world and you just might find a reality that causes you to think and re-think.

                                      Not just imagine.
                                      Well in her defense. Yes they do. I've seen it myself as a groom and as an owner. And I've also seen what it does in the long run. Retraining and conditioning to be a normal horse is a tough row to hoe. Breed showing in GENERAL ( not everyone but enough) do not wear halos and most of those that are angels simply say lalalalala I can't hear you. because it would ruin their ideals or their reputation. You don't want to be the one who speaks against the machine, believe me.

                                      Comment


                                      • And then, of course, there is this which I just heard from a reliable source: The new Performance Show Horse Group Association says that anyone who shows horses with any organization other than the PSHA will not be able to show at a PSHA show for 12 months after they show somewhere else. That would eliminate anyone who shows NWHA, for example. So, if you don't sign on with the new consolidated group, they will keep you out of the Celebration. And if the TWHBEA Futurity decided to use that new consolidated HIO/PSHA, you couldn't show at the Futurity if you had shown your horse with some other organization.


                                        Chew on this FOLKS,Howard's control of the TWH

                                        Comment


                                        • This "roundy round show is bad" and all who do it are awful is an exaggeration that detracts from the problem as well as the solution. And it gives a complete loss of credibility for the cause of the TWH. It thwarts the potential for anyone who knows anything about ASB's and the like to even consider taking up HR6388 as a potential solution for the TWH.

                                          And mind you in my opinion, there is a good potential REAL solution for the TWH with HR6388 and USEF oversight.

                                          SO it is not possible for those who know different to let statements like "hours on end" stand as anything but an exaggeration. That they are all "frightened" is also an exaggeration. A complete exaggeration. Also implying that those who do not agree have a "not my horse" mind set makes the exaggeration even worse.

                                          Bunch of pointers staring at rustling leaves and trying to draw a pack is all I see with posts like that.

                                          HAs Andrea ever been in any of these barns???

                                          I think not.

                                          Cause riding an "up" horse is not all bad for the horse. However - riding a horse who is forced to carry a low set head on high indeed is bad. Most Saddlebreds are bred for high head carriage. Just like the Fresions who stared with curiosity at my two boys in the paddock next to them. They were not frightened - just curious. And you bet their heads were up high for a goooooood long while.

                                          Just stop and ponder this - agony and ecstasy share the same grimace - looking at the whole picture is what shows the difference. I do not see any usefulness at all with this myopic presentation and poking at the shown horse.

                                          And this is why I like having Renae in the conversation - I mean HR6388 is about action devices. I am sure she could straighten up some of the misconceptions and exaggerations that are put forth here. And I fully believe in the long run we will all find a better balance arises from examining everyone's position and not sticking to some "show is bad" mantra or making these exaggerated statements.

                                          BTW the one thing I am sticking with is that the bands on shoes need to go. That will really make a difference in the big scheme of things.

                                          OH - And before I forget - Tom Bass - to my knowledge - started/developed/used the biting rig with his saddle horses. He is to my knowledge an undisputed American great horseman.
                                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                          Comment

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