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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by gogaitedgo View Post
    [edit]
    Yes, stacks are abusive so no, you obviously don't understand the process. How long you going to torture that horse?
    [edit] We will probably retire him this Spring when the weather is nice and he can be turned out. The ONLY problem...is [edit]...many padded horses when retired and turned out during the day in a pasture are very unhappy and don't adjust well to their new life. I could tell you alot of stories about that, but you would only find a way to call me brainless, or some other name, so I'll close for the night and have a great week-end.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:19 PM.

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    • Originally posted by cordial View Post
      [edit] We will probably retire him this Spring when the weather is nice and he can be turned out. The ONLY problem...is [edit]....many padded horses when retired and turned out during the day in a pasture are very unhappy and don't adjust well to their new life. I could tell you alot of stories about that, but you would only find a way to call me brainless, or some other name, so I'll close for the night and have a great week-end.
      AND again you will skip out on the fact you say you agree with the avma, etc. THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE A STACKED HORSE? ( not padded, those things are NOT there for padding ie. Protection, cushioning, they are STACKS)
      Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:19 PM.
      Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
      https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

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      • Originally posted by cordial View Post
        [edit] Yes, we have a 22 year old horse on stacks...still in the show ring and still sound. No, I don't need a diagram. I understand the process, and no the stacks aren't abusive!
        Why don't you explain to the uninitiated the 5Ws of stacking up a horse? You defend the practice so I presume you are knowledgeable in it's practical application. You might address at what age a horse should be put into the stacks; why they work; why what they do is not harmful; and at what age they should be removed, if ever.

        G.
        Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:20 PM.
        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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        • Originally posted by cordial View Post
          [edit] We will probably retire him this Spring when the weather is nice and he can be turned out. The ONLY problem...is [edit]....many padded horses when retired and turned out during the day in a pasture are very unhappy and don't adjust well to their new life. I could tell you alot of stories about that, but you would only find a way to call me brainless, or some other name, so I'll close for the night and have a great week-end.
          This is why there is no reason for me or any other to enter into a discussion with you about stacks. You tell the abuse of your own horse better than anyone else can explain it to you and still you do not see. Even when your own words ring of the truth you twist it into a fairy tale of a horse who is only capable of being content if he is stacked in a stall.

          You have a day of enlightenment coming, and it is going to be a deep painful searing remorse you will feel within you when you come to face that day. SO painful that you will not be able to speak of it. Instead you will speak of haters who did not understand and you will shut yourself away again in your world of false beliefs with the two other people who indulge you in your made up world.

          Even though futile - there is one thing I want to discuss about the 'stories you could tell' of those retired turned out horses or even the one you probably won't tell of your own horse. What I hope you consider is whatever the panic or anguish that newly turned out old horse exhibits - no matter how bad it seems - it is just a fraction of the anguish that horse really went through twenty some years ago when some one first nailed those heinous stacks on and stuck him in that dank concrete stall.

          Can you imagine the how maddening the loss of his freedom was for the the horse? Can you imagine being so athletic and bounding one day and then jacked up and shut up in a stall to be petted and sat upon by some delusional lipsticked perfumed eyelined woman or sweaty ole club carrying lard the rest of your once beautiful sun filled days?? And to be made to stumble over feet that once carried you without effort...

          Can you imagine the loss?
          Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:21 PM.
          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cordial View Post
            I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn't agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your "beef" with me??? HUH
            Let me get this straight. You agree with the above orgs. that stacking should be banned but want to keep showing YOUR horse this way. Everyone else's horses' are being abused by stacking but not yours? Interesting..........

            Sorry, I got off track. Back to the good fight.
            Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CFFarm View Post
              Let me get this straight. You agree with the above orgs. that stacking should be banned but want to keep showing YOUR horse this way. Everyone else's horses' are being abused by stacking but not yours? Interesting..........

              Sorry, I got off track. Back to the good fight.
              I will come on here for the last time, and try once more to explain to how I feell. I do agree with the AVMA, and all of the other groups, and if they manage to get rid of the pads .........I am okay with that, and even if they don't get rid of the pads....we will never buy another padded up horse. My husband loves them...he has had his for a long time, but realizes the Stigma attached to them, and if and when he gets another one it will be a flat-shod show horse Our padded horse has beenan Ambassador for the breed in the area we live, and has been veey popular with people who don't even like padded horses, but because of his talent and great personality. Nothing he likes better then to show. BUT, I think we will retire him soon...whether the USDA gets the pads and chains this summer or not My personal opinion is that they will get them soon or later, but NOT this summer. So that leaves us with one already retired trail pleasure horse, one young park horse, one 23 year old (not retired yet) very good lite-shod horse. Sorry if we'all think I speak in circles, but I am actually more on your page then you realize.........but I wil not come on here any more and try and defend our padded horse. It just isn't worth it. You all keep up the good fight, and don't answer my email anymore.

              Comment


              • Bye, bye Cordial!

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  hurleycane - your post #3644 paints such a picture. For a moment i was that 14 month old colt, locked in a stall with "new shoes" that were strange and clumsy, wondering when they would let me out to run with my pasturemates. Like all prisoners, the reality of my new life would be revealed as the months passed...... and i would comply and make the best of it.
                  from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                  Comment


                  • We've edited/removed some recent posts due to inappropriate commentary and responses to it.

                    Please avoid personal insults when discussing topics, regardless of how passionate your feelings.

                    Thanks,
                    Mod 1

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                    • A couple of questions.

                      First, cordial, who is your trainer? Would you please tell us? Or is there someone on here who has found out who his/her trainer is?

                      Second, why is it that every single person who has stacked horses says THEIR horses are completely sound, but we still see hundreds of HPA violations every year? I'm not talking about rulebook violations--I'm talking about scars, foreign substances, etc.

                      It reminds me of the movie Shawshank Redemption, when Red asks Andy what he's in for, and Andy says murder, but he's innocent.

                      Red: You're gonna fit right in. Everyone in here is innocent, you know that? Heywood, what you in here for?
                      Heywood: Didn't do it. Lawyer f***ed me.
                      Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                      www.forthetwh.com

                      Comment


                      • Standing ovation Hurleycane!!!

                        Comment


                        • There is no rhyme or reason why a show horse horse that loves attention, despite the terrible cost of it, should be thrown out into a pasture and ignored. Why not transition him to flat shod classes? He'll learn to move in a more relaxed manner and his old joints and feet will have time to heal.

                          I just recently rescued a Morgan mare that was saddleseat trained. In the arena, she wants to fly around and throw her legs out. I simply stop her and rub her neck until she relaxes before moving her out again. She is learning to relax in an arena and she LIKES it! We are taking a break from the arena for awhile because she's discovered how marvelous trial rides are. It didn't take long to transition her to a relaxed trail horse. You don't have to IGNORE you horse just because you aren't showing him. These creatures thrive on attention. With sufficient attention, he'll adjust pretty dang well to not being in pain.

                          Please, please, whatever you do, don't switch your desperate need for attention to some young girl relative and start in on child pageants. I swear it's the same mentality as a TWHs. And those parents say, "But our daughter just LOVES to show!". No, young children, like certain personable breeds of horse, love to please. Children are born that way and we have bred horses to be that way. That doesn't give you the right to take advantage of the situation. Even a beaten dog will lick his abusive owner's face. It doesn't make the abuse right.
                          “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

                          St. Padre Pio

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                            I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn't agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your "beef" with me??? HUH
                            This has been answered before. The issue is a lot of people think stacks and huge pads damage the horse and are therefore abusive. There is no doubt that the footwear of the performance horse throws them off balance, causes them to move awkwardly and is damaging to the structure of the legs.

                            Comment


                            • Thanks for the nod - I love a good head nod - no matter the species - Right? MOF folks who can not understand the nod - just have never been right on the right horse.

                              As for continuing on this thread - I see it as a place to lend a voice, ask a question and keep the purpose where it belongs. And many have made a lot of good thoughtful posts, discussed some great issues and well - kept the issue where it belongs.

                              ANd that is right here in front of all of us.

                              I really do not believe those who are in deep with acceptance of the stacking chaining etc will ever change their acceptance of it. To do so would be too painful. Like in cordial's case it sounds like it would cause a rift in her spousal ease. At least that is what her last post led me to believe. To publicly speak her new awareness and openly accept that the stacking was inherently wrong or to openly say the only way to get that founder crawl would be to stack and chain or sore - well, to do that she may have had a much harder time enjoying all the other perks of her relationship with her spouse. KNow what I mean?

                              SO it was easier for her to come here and speak against her own true beliefs and try to buttress up her honey's dying (and wrong) past time with words like his horse was an ambassador etc.

                              She makes sense now. I understand why she was so conflicted in her remarks - and why she tried to label folks haters etc. It was easier for her to straddle the fence.

                              Same might go for the folks in SHelbyville who know better (the McConnell tape) but still try and wave their stacked horse signs. To put that stacked sign down would mean they are gonna have to re-evaluate some relationships - family, friend, trainer, business partner etc. And they might just lose some relationships.

                              But it does not excuse their behavior - they enabled this awful mess and in doing so are a party to it.

                              Maybe it it time for all the cordial spouses to do the right thing - and that would be to release their horses, spouses, family, friends and business relationships from the burden those stacks and chains represent. Maybe they could just take a little responsibility for their actions and put that trash in the garbage bin and bring this sad history of abuse to an end.

                              Yea Boy! Just get that crap out of the way of the TWH, USDA and horseman everywhere and simply walk-on and enjoy this great horse, free and unencumbered.
                              from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                Thanks for the nod - I love a good head nod - no matter the species - Right? MOF folks who can not understand the nod - just have never been right on the right horse.

                                As for continuing on this thread - I see it as a place to lend a voice, ask a question and keep the purpose where it belongs. And many have made a lot of good thoughtful posts, discussed some great issues and well - kept the issue where it belongs.

                                ANd that is right here in front of all of us.

                                I really do not believe those who are in deep with acceptance of the stacking chaining etc will ever change their acceptance of it. To do so would be too painful. Like in cordial's case it sounds like it would cause a rift in her spousal ease. At least that is what her last post led me to believe. To publicly speak her new awareness and openly accept that the stacking was inherently wrong or to openly say the only way to get that founder crawl would be to stack and chain or sore - well, to do that she may have had a much harder time enjoying all the other perks of her relationship with her spouse. KNow what I mean?

                                SO it was easier for her to come here and speak against her own true beliefs and try to buttress up her honey's dying (and wrong) past time with words like his horse was an ambassador etc.

                                She makes sense now. I understand why she was so conflicted in her remarks - and why she tried to label folks haters etc. It was easier for her to straddle the fence.

                                Same might go for the folks in SHelbyville who know better (the McConnell tape) but still try and wave their stacked horse signs. To put that stacked sign down would mean they are gonna have to re-evaluate some relationships - family, friend, trainer, business partner etc. And they might just lose some relationships.

                                But it does not excuse their behavior - they enabled this awful mess and in doing so are a party to it.

                                Maybe it it time for all the cordial spouses to do the right thing - and that would be to release their horses, spouses, family, friends and business relationships from the burden those stacks and chains represent. Maybe they could just take a little responsibility for their actions and put that trash in the garbage bin and bring this sad history of abuse to an end.

                                Yea Boy! Just get that crap out of the way of the TWH, USDA and horseman everywhere and simply walk-on and enjoy this great horse, free and unencumbered.
                                OMG, are you kidding me, Hurleycane....I love padded horses as much as my husband , but it is too much of a hassle to own one anymore...let's say it is not politically "correct".
                                And our padded gelding is not going to be thrown out into a pasture and forgotten...are you nuts??? He will still be stalled and taken out gradually , an hour at a time and always be brought in at night. He is too old to try flat-shod and needs to be a horse, and enjoy the rest of his life.Honest to God, no matter what I say you always twist it to a whole new meaning., because you have a real flair for friction.

                                Believe you me, if my husband wanted amother padded horse, I would be all for it, and if I wanted one, he would support me in that wish, but we have no desire to go in that direction again. I've been married for 50 years, and he and I are generally on the same page with each other in most things in life. My God, I can't believe how you twisted my last post. Are you kidding me??? As you probably have figured out, my husband and I are not " spring chickens", but we still ride often, and show most week-ends during show season.My husband teaches skiing in the state of New York most week-ends in the winter. Yes, We are so far pretty lucky , as we are both very active and in good health. I believe you once stated that you were too old to ride anymore.....come on and cowboy up....you live once, and if you do it right, once is enough.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                  Thanks for the nod - I love a good head nod - no matter the species - Right? MOF folks who can not understand the nod - just have never been right on the right horse.

                                  As for continuing on this thread - I see it as a place to lend a voice, ask a question and keep the purpose where it belongs. And many have made a lot of good thoughtful posts, discussed some great issues and well - kept the issue where it belongs.



                                  I really do not believe those who are in deep with acceptance of the stacking chaining etc will ever change their acceptance of it. To do so would be too painful. Like in cordial's case it sounds like it would cause a rift in her spousal ease. At least that is what her last post led me to believe. To publicly speak her new awareness and openly accept that the stacking was inherently wrong or to openly say the only way to get that founder crawl would be to stack and chain or sore - well, to do that she may have had a much harder time enjoying all the other perks of her relationship with her spouse. KNow what I mean?
                                  If the issue is where it belongs, then what the Hell are you doing in Cordial's bedroom??

                                  Good Lord you've jumped the shark.

                                  Comment


                                  • Can this nonsense please just end already?!? Cordial said shes done so cant that be it about her? Most Everyone is still talking about her and her stacked horse, then she comes back in yet another pro stacked post...
                                    Please, can we get off of that subject?
                                    So on another subject...
                                    Does anybody know whatever happened in the Jackie Mcconnell case? Maybe I missed something, but I haven't heard anything about it in while.
                                    Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                                    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Thoro View Post
                                      Can this nonsense please just end already?!? Cordial said shes done so cant that be it about her? Most Everyone is still talking about her and her stacked horse, then she comes back in yet another pro stacked post...
                                      Please, can we get off of that subject?
                                      So on another subject...
                                      Does anybody know whatever happened in the Jackie Mcconnell case? Maybe I missed something, but I haven't heard anything about it in while.
                                      Like the cat, Cordial keeps coming back. And she makes the same claims in the same language. And doesn't answer substantive questions. Her presence or absence neither adds to nor subtracts from the discussion.

                                      Soring is not done out of some motivation to cause gratuitous pain.* It's done to get a certain motion. Stacks and other action devices are used for the same purpose. When combined you bet a really big change in equine motion. That's what is being sought. That change in equine motion, IMO, causes long term and short term injury to the horse. So if you do away with one (either one) you've only done half the job. That's why the actions of the various professional groups are very important (and very telling).

                                      There are NO university level studies to support my opinion. It was formed after re-habbing several former Big Lick horses. It was supported as I learned more about equine movement and how the devices (particularly the stacks) alter that movement. Cordial says I'm wrong. She has made multiple, unsupported claims. So, who's right? Make your own choice.

                                      Soring is unlawful, stacks (and other "action devices") are not. IMO opinion this is an unsatisfactory situation. The HPA should be amended to consign the stacks (and other action devices) to the dustbin of history. As with all things, YMMV.

                                      G.

                                      *What you saw in the McConnell video was rank stupidity. I'm not even sure what the goal of the "training" was. That's damn sure not how you "steward" a horse. After watching it my first inclination was to say "here's your sign." It does open a window, however, into a world that is usually shrouded in darkness.
                                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        The McConnell mess was postponed again until late March.
                                        from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                          The McConnell mess was postponed again until late March.
                                          Again?! Geez!
                                          Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                                          https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

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