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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • [QUOTE=cordial;6810073]
    Originally posted by Thoro View Post
    You know Cordial, you complain about G. being rude to you, yet you were the one who said after G. was 'very wrong' after G. had commented about twh riders using hand not leg and seat.
    There's no need to just be rude for the sake of starting an argument, its not like G. was singling you out. Sure, not every twh is ridden with mainly hand, but the majority of the ones you see ARE
    If yours aren't that's great.[/QUOTE

    Mine are not just ridden by hands and arms....I work very hard at that as that is much more diffucult than you think.. Our trainer is a real "Bug" about keeping a horse in Frame, using and feeling your seat under you, and using leg pressure when necessary. If I get too heavy handed I get told that and I back off.
    I've seen alot of shows over the last 21 years, and I can't believe that the majority of TWH are ridden with just hands. I have seen some wonderful riders, and too be honest...alot of them are woman. Some have wonderful equation. I can't judge riders by watching You Tube. I see them in person at shows and seeing other riders at the various barns when they are having a lesson, or working their various horses.!
    Good to hear!
    I also don't usually watch youtube, but a lot of the riders I see use a lot of hand, and are practically on their horses loins, and hunched. Just not good...
    Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cordial View Post
      I appreciate your kind words, but because we own a padded horse the haters will never believe ......even if I post a million pictures, that I am saying the truth. I am surprised that they don't blash you for your dressage efforts. MY trainer also works in a little dressage with all her TWH clients.......she just does alot of things that some trainers don't bother with.
      I know that there are other TWH posters on here that have Padded horses, and flat-shod for that matter, but don't come on here anymore because of the bashing that they receive.. I an due to go in and get my knee relolplaced in one week. When I am able to ride again, and the weather gets better I will get some videos. I might even throw one in of our wonderful padded horse. Then you watch them scream!!! LOL
      Your pride in your horse abuse is typical of lickers. For the sake of argument, let's say there is no use of caustic substances, chains and the like. Just stacks. STILL ABUSIVE.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by cordial View Post
        Ah yes, the Government boys love a paid vacation in Florida on the beach....paid for by the taxpayers. lol,lol
        Yeah, LOL LOL that sick abusive lickers just won't stop. Maybe if you had to pay for the ref out of your own pockets, maybe you might stop. LOL LOL

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cordial View Post
          Just because you don't see it in your so-called video's doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
          The sales videos are not imaginary. An excellent example of how to hinder a horse's gaits by hand riding in the majority of them. A shame.

          Most of the riders look like they have no clue on how to use seat or leg in any case.
          Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

          Comment


          • I will confess that I'm more tolerant of errant behavior in an equine than I am in a humine. If that's "mean spirited" then I'm guilty as charged.

            Still, when claims are made that I feel are beyond ordinary, physical limits as I understand them then I'm skeptical and might challenge the maker of those claims to support them. So far we've seen no support for the claims made by Cordial. Publicly available video and in-person evidence suggests my analysis of the "mainstream" of Walker/Racker/SSH equitation practices (particularly in the show ring and especially with the Big Lick horses) is spot on. So far I've not drawn any conclusions from that lack of support. I can't control what others might draw.

            G.
            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
              I will confess that I'm more tolerant of errant behavior in an equine than I am in a humine. If that's "mean spirited" then I'm guilty as charged.

              Still, when claims are made that I feel are beyond ordinary, physical limits as I understand them then I'm skeptical and might challenge the maker of those claims to support them. So far we've seen no support for the claims made by Cordial. Publicly available video and in-person evidence suggests my analysis of the "mainstream" of Walker/Racker/SSH equitation practices (particularly in the show ring and especially with the Big Lick horses) is spot on. So far I've not drawn any conclusions from that lack of support. I can't control what others might draw.

              G.
              You my Dear, may draw any...... conclusions that you want too. Our horses are not sored or abused...quite the opposite. I know the truth and anybody that knows us and our horses would back that up!!! I don't give a damn what you think.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by gogaitedgo View Post
                Yeah, LOL LOL that sick abusive lickers just won't stop. Maybe if you had to pay for the ref out of your own pockets, maybe you might stop. LOL LOL
                AND ON WHAT FACTS DO YOU FEEL THAT i AM AN ABUSER.......PLEASE EXPLAIN....THAT IS IF YOU CAN1

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  gogaitedgo - Dont take the bait.
                  cordial - Ask the AVMA, AAEP, USDA, and USEF what they consider abusive "training" practices in TWHville.
                  from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                    gogaitedgo - Dont take the bait.
                    cordial - Ask the AVMA, AAEP, USDA, and USEF what they consider abusive "training" practices in TWHville.
                    I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn't agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your "beef" with me??? HUH

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                      AND ON WHAT FACTS DO YOU FEEL THAT i AM AN ABUSER.......PLEASE EXPLAIN....THAT IS IF YOU CAN1
                      SO answer the question????????????

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                        I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn't agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your "beef" with me??? HUH
                        I think the 'beef' with you is that you say you don't care what the people on here think of you, then why are you here to argue every little point? To try to pick fights and not act'cordial' at all? To rail that we don't know what we're talking about?
                        We all disagree on things, but that doesn't mean you have to pick and be rude about it. I guaruntee if you are, you are going to get it right back at you.
                        I personally have no 'beef' with you, but you have been snitty to others.
                        Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                        https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                          I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn't agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your "beef" with me??? HUH
                          Great to hear you agree with them! I assume that means you no longer have a stacked horse? http://m.aaep.org/press_room.php?id=487
                          Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                          https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                            No, not really!



                            A horse with a very lateral gait and any overstride will often have a rear leg slightly longer than might be considered "normal." This is not a conformation defect if the leg is normally shaped and properly attached to the hip. This will give the impression of being built "downhill" but, again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. As long as it's a fully functional part of the whole horse I don't see any issues. If the leg is not well attached or if, as is common, is "sickle hocked" then you've got a serious flaw. A crooked leg is not as strong as a straight leg ("straight" here meaning the leg has proper articulations). The bent hock actually is an advantage in over stride and that is an advantage in some gaits. But the bent leg will break down sooner that the straight leg and the horse's performance career will likely be shorter.

                            The conformational differences of a gaited horse vs. a trotting horse will be few and subtle. Just what they might be will be determined by breed (what does the breed standard require) and by way of going. A lateral gait might well have some differences to a more diagonal gait. But, again, these differences will be subtle. And in no case should they be outright flaws, like sickle hocks.

                            G.
                            I agreed with most of what you said, but I did want to point out that 'overstride' is misunderstood by most people. A horse with good overstride literally steps bigger or longer with its hind legs in its walk. So a crooked leg will give the appearance of a 'deep' step behind. People will get all giddy and say, "look, Sir Stacksalot is stepping deep and has a lot of overstride. See how far he steps past his front feet?" When in reality he is also coming off the ground sooner behind, thanks to that same crooked leg. He has no more overstride than a clean legged horse-- his stride just happens further under his body for mechanical reasons. And because he is crooked legged, no matter what his hind leg stride is (long or short) its not going to hold up to years of use thanks to his poor conformation.

                            Long story short-- a crooked hind leg only creates the illusion of overstride. It has no true affect on the overall length of that hind step.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                              SO answer the question????????????
                              [edit] YOU HAVE A HORSE ON STACKS. THAT IS ABUSIVE. Do you need diagrams?
                              Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:17 PM.

                              Comment


                              • It is so tempting to stoke the stacker fire - but I won't. But neat-o to think about how passing HR6388 will give someone a fine opportunity to use their cool leg and seat aides to do a little side passing with a soon to be no longered encumbered stacked horse.

                                Great comment Shansurri. And there are quite a few people that need to really take this info to heart - and not all those people are stacked folks either. Cause there are so called sound people out there that think and breed for the sickle hocked horse with the idea it is what creates overstride and that it is what gives the TWH its walk. Sad thing is, as I read and hear them - these same people think "others" do not understand the TWH when their severely sickle hocked horse is excused from judging. Oh they sure do raise a stink about the judges being ignorant...

                                BTW here is another cool thing to consider about horse footprintology - if you are only reading footprints, a pace has tremendous overstride.
                                from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by gogaitedgo View Post
                                  [edit]YOU HAVE A HORSE ON STACKS. THAT IS ABUSIVE. Do you need diagrams?
                                  [edit] Yes, we have a 22 year old horse on stacks...still in the show ring and still sound. No, I don't need a diagram. I understand the process, and no the stacks aren't abusive!
                                  Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:18 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                    It is so tempting to stoke the stacker fire - but I won't. But neat-o to think about how passing HR6388 will give someone a fine opportunity to use their cool leg and seat aides to do a little side passing with a soon to be no longered encumbered stacked horse.

                                    Great comment Shansurri. And there are quite a few people that need to really take this info to heart - and not all those people are stacked folks either. Cause there are so called sound people out there that think and breed for the sickle hocked horse with the idea it is what creates overstride and that it is what gives the TWH its walk. Sad thing is, as I read and hear them - these same people think "others" do not understand the TWH when their severely sickle hocked horse is excused from judging. Oh they sure do raise a stink about the judges being ignorant...

                                    BTW here is another cool thing to consider about horse footprintology - if you are only reading footprints, a pace has tremendous overstride.
                                    If by anychance you are referring to me, that when the "stacks" are removed that I will be able to do side-passes and use my seat and leg-aids on an ex-padded horse. He is sound and smart eough to learn to do that, but I think total retirement will be in his future as along as he will live!!!! He has been a wonderful horse and he will get the "bestest" retirement!!

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      hurleycane - you are a treasure. Always bringing the thread back to topic and throwing out interesting things to discuss or think about. It SHOULD be about what is good for the horse. My guy is a bit - not drastically - but a bit sickle hocked. I was told (and bought into) that is how good walkers are built. I dont stress him out much. We just go through the woods or putz around with obstacle stuff. I ride quiet and the only time he gets sweaty (other than under the saddle) is if its a real hot humid day. He needs to last for me ! I used to enjoy riding for hours but prefer now to keep my rides to under three hours.
                                      from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Originally posted by cordial View Post
                                        I am fully aware of what the AVMA (I have a daughte who is a graduate of Vet school),AAEP,USDA,nad Usef stand for. I couldn't agree more with them on the position they take, and I am all for the clean, sound horse, so what is your problem with me. I have clean, sound unabused horses, sowhat is your "beef" with me??? HUH
                                        cordial you cant have it both ways - either you agree with the stand the AVMA, AAEP, USDA and USEF have taken - OR - you support Big Lick horses. You are talking in circles. We believe that you have not personally sored your horse. But that is not the point. The above mentioned groups have taken a stand against stacked and chained horses. So although you said you did, you dont agree with them.
                                        from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                                          [edit] Yes, we have a 22 year old horse on stacks...still in the show ring and still sound. No, I don't need a diagram. I understand the process, and no the stacks aren't abusive!
                                          [edit]
                                          Yes, stacks are abusive so no, you obviously don't understand the process. How long you going to torture that horse?
                                          Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 3, 2013, 07:16 PM.

                                          Comment

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