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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by frugalannie View Post
    My memory is a bit addled, but aren't the USEF offices at the Kentucky Horse Park? Whether or not this is the case, how can they let this showcase happen in their back yard?

    Perhaps it's time for USEF members to let them know their opinions on this matter.
    I believe they are, but they are also a tenant. The landlord decides what does or does not go on there, however, not the tenants!

    Be wary of invoking the "dressage gods." They've allowed the Names to rollkur their horses without penalty for a long time. And that is the tip of an iceberg they'd probably not want to get a spotlight on.

    The TWH world had been divorced from the USEF world since the late '60s or early '70s. The quest for the Big Lick was the reason for the "divorce" if memory serves. I don't see USEF getting involved; they took their dog out of this fight a long time ago.

    Pressing the reintroduction of the Federal legislation to amend the HPA is probably the best thing that can happen at this point. And, of course, the continuing slow implosion of the BL world.

    That, however, just sets the stage for Round 2: the addressing of soring of the flat shod/light shod world.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

    Comment


    • Excellent points as always, Guilherme. I was just thinking that since Big Lick was being, ummm...deleted at shows that were also hosting USEF divisions, they might have more of an influence at the Horse Park. Your explanation makes it clear.
      They don't call me frugal for nothing.
      Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

      Comment


      • *sigh* One thing I dislike to do very much is point out misspoken comments from others basically on the same side...

        But it more important to have all of our facts straight, our conjectures and opinions at least on point.

        I am here, middle TN, I go to the Celebration, I walk through the DQP areas, I know how tings work and proceed...FIRST HAND, not what I heard, not wht I think..but what I have seen and done

        Someone saying people won't and don't change is so off and incorrect, I have known and participated in the "Conversion" of hundreds of ex-BLs...many who are now our friends, who walk us through behind the scene processes of soring and abuse.

        I work very closely with the USDA in their fight to end all of is, the major vet orgs AAVM has financed my projects.

        The some of the things FFTWH were so incorrect I don't even know where to start to correct the errors. I want it to all stop (Soring & abuse) ,,,but not behind lies, and false statements..

        I have been a member here since 2009 ~~~ I am not known to "fly off the handle" just as y'all saw through Bradley Dick, please, reason out what new people come over and try to convince you of.

        I'm just saying stay vigilant this is the most educated group not inside of the TWH world, I know, I walked every step with you~!~~~ you did not get to be that savvy without doing your homework..stay vigilant people

        Comment


        • Preacher - I know you do not know where to start - cause I am feeling ya on the stay vigilant stuff. I also get discouraged with comments that perpetuate the soring is going to continue no matter what is done with mechanical device. ANd as well with comments that standardbreds ruined the walking gait. My word - standies are some of the best gaiters out there.

          Lotz of myths and 1/2 truths and/or absolutes really do cloud the waters.

          Since you stay in the game - have you any news of progress?
          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

          Comment


          • My wife wants me to copy her on things I write, says, it might be a book…I say nonsense..but I do it cuz my kids said they wanted to know the details I have been doing to tell their kids..

            So today,…I have been having a running gun battle with KY State Senator Robin Webb..who received 2 federal felony tickets for scar rules violation which she plead guilty too and received a 2 year suspension.
            Well, Jennie kinda put all of the post in order, so I thought I’d share
            Do the Right Thang conversation:

            http://www.twhbea.com/News%202012/12...dorSenWebb.php



            Nathan's 1ST Letter to Senator:

            The Honorable Senator Webb;

            Ironic that what you are accustomed to being called is exactly what I wish to speak to you about.

            Honor

            I heard what you had to say at the December TWHBEA meeting, no problem it's how you felt, I have no problems with a person's point of view.

            What does disturb me is that you knew what was going on behind the scene with these tickets and you spoke with such conviction...as if nothing was ever gonna come to light.

            You will be getting a few emails from people asking you to do what I suggested they ask of you;

            Please, search your heart and ethics meter and choose to do the honorable thing and respectfully return the award citing whatever reason you want,

            Don't put the TWHBEA in a jackpot by making them have to weigh in and make a decision about what they should do.

            I wish you no ill feelings,

            Nathanael Jackson

            Her reply to Nathan:

            I am doing the right thing, I will continue to be an advocate for the performance Tennessee Walking Horse, I have not attempted to silence you Mr. Jackson, even though our views differ on many things. I will not be silenced and I will continue to speak with conviction. I have done nothing wrong. Thank you for your contact. Sen. Robin Webb

            and Nathan's reply:

            Your Honorable Senator Webb;

            Thank you for your quick reply, although I am a little confused, I never spoke on silencing you did I? I re-read what I said, sorry OI don't see it...supporting the horse division of your choice is fine with me, I have no problems with that, it is legal even though I may not have the same point of view as you.

            Let me try this again, what I am advocating is that you simply return the award you recieved from TWHBEA in December in order to support the TWHBEA stated mission statement that the TWHBEA does not support soring or abusing of any horses.

            Years gone by, the culture of the Japanese a warrior would commit Hari Kari rather than bring shame upon his station, superiors, country, flag and on...

            Of course I'm not asking you to do the same rather consider the honor of someone's integrity in sparing the TWHBEA the embarrassing position of having to answer an angry public of how it still supports a United States Senator who just admitted to 2 felony counts of presenting a sore horse in a show.

            I know you understand exactly what I am saying, you do not get to the station in life you have by being an idiot.

            Advocate away, just consider the organization who just honored you ~~~ can you sacrifice your wants to honor it back?

            Return the award with whatever reason you want to give, just return it and not force the TWHBEA International Board to rule on the many request they already are receiving in great numbers from the members and public at large.

            Nathanael Jackson


            Senator's Reply:

            I am a state Senator, Mr. Jackson, I do not support abuse or mistreatment of any person or animal, including a horse and therefore, I am not violating any mission statement of TWHBEA. I will continue to be an ambassador for the padded performance horse and you can continue to be an advocate for your horse. Thanks, again, Robin

            Nathan's Reply:
            Senator;

            I may owe you a big apology, I don't pretend to know everything, and if I see I made a mistake I have absolutely no program to humble myself and apologize.

            Just verify for me, are these two Federal HPA Violations attached here you? Are these two horses registered in your name?

            YOU are a lawmaker, when you introduce a new law, do you expect that if passed and enacted people will take heed and obey it?

            If you said yes, what does the law say about the person who owns a horse that is found to be in violation of the HPA?

            Does that law allow for the owner of a horse found to be in violation of the HPA plead ignorance of the act?

            Since you are a sitting Senator I know you are familiar with the FOIA, these records attached are now public,

            With all due respect, STOP embarrassing yourself, Everyone knows, and to a person I bet each one of them cross their fingers and hope you would just return the award so they don't have to deal with it themselves.

            Dang it woman! I have so much respect for our system of justice to the point I fought for it TWICE I was taught from a young age by my parents to love what the Lord had blessed me to be born in..A God fearing free country!

            Now you piss me off that you would cheapen a institution I love..

            Do Da Right Thang! woman and stop pissing down the back of my neck and calling it rain!

            Nathanael

            • Scar_Rule_Tkt-891.pdf
            • Scar_Rule_Tkt-1176.pdf


            Senator's Reply:

            Nathanael, I have previously acknowledged your e-mails, however, I will not acknowledge you further. I know your agenda and have seen it in action as to the Tennessee Walking Horse, in your presentations as well
            as the exploitation and exhibition of your horse. Again, nothing reflects that my horses were abused or sore by any account. That is all. I will continue to be an advocate for the performance padded Tennessee Walking Horse and I respect your right not to be. R

            Nathan's Reply:

            As you wish Maam

            You just made my project to do list

            Have a blessed day

            Nathanael

            Comment


            • "Well bless your little heart"

              LMAO......
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                perhaps she should replace her framed award with close up pics of her horse's heels.
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
                  He's Back!! My man roy has been quiet for a while but He's back!

                  http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/1/2...ike-Lance.aspx
                  You go Roy!

                  Why in the world is hr6388 sitting idle?
                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                  Comment


                  • Great post, sunridge! I love it! Thanks for pointing those things out!
                    Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                    www.forthetwh.com

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                      You go Roy!

                      Why in the world is hr6388 sitting idle?
                      The only reason is because a bunch of new amendments and the like sitting in Congress right now got dumped after the election. Nothing personal or against HR 6388--we kind of half expected this. So all we need is for folks to contact their Congress persons and ask for it to be reintroduced. More important, contact the guy who introduced it to begin with--of course I don't have his name in front of me, but it should be on Popvox. We'll get it passed if we stay diligent!
                      Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                      www.forthetwh.com

                      Comment


                      • As always, I get attacked by those who claim they're on the same side as me, yet they say I'm wrong. Oh well. I guess time will tell. Overall, some say the same thing to every group they get involved with that they're so great, but soon enough they show their true colors. The goal here is to save the horse, not support those who think we owe them because of the "work" they've done.
                        Last edited by FortheTWH; Jan. 24, 2013, 12:16 AM. Reason: misspelling
                        Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                        www.forthetwh.com

                        Comment


                        • I am not sure where you (or anyone here pushing for right) is wrong thinking, but I get that there may be some details where folks differ. Though I am curious where the difference between you and Preacher may fall, my take is it is not that divisive and as you said is toward reaching the same goal.

                          IOW it sounds like you two got some politics between you.

                          Am I close?
                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                            I believe they are, but they are also a tenant. The landlord decides what does or does not go on there, however, not the tenants!

                            Be wary of invoking the "dressage gods." They've allowed the Names to rollkur their horses without penalty for a long time. And that is the tip of an iceberg they'd probably not want to get a spotlight on.

                            The TWH world had been divorced from the USEF world since the late '60s or early '70s. The quest for the Big Lick was the reason for the "divorce" if memory serves. I don't see USEF getting involved; they took their dog out of this fight a long time ago.

                            Pressing the reintroduction of the Federal legislation to amend the HPA is probably the best thing that can happen at this point. And, of course, the continuing slow implosion of the BL world.

                            That, however, just sets the stage for Round 2: the addressing of soring of the flat shod/light shod world.

                            G.
                            I think the tenants ARE the attraction at the park - make no mistake about it. Many a landlording mall sits empty enough to prove my point and USEF's.

                            The rationale and implication that soring of flatshod/light shod will be "round two" is a debbbie downer statement of ignorance. Each and every flat show horse is now given the same scrutiny as those who go in with an action device. Do you think otherwise? WHy do you imply otherwise?

                            And taking that one step further, if the Stackers and their stacked chain soring etc ways are applied to the flat shod horse at home - do you really think the sored horse is going to come in a show ring with the coveted founder crawl without an action device? They lose that high step pretty quick when the action device is off. And if they show up sored - well the same inspectors will be there and they will get busted. And with tougher penalties for sure said barns will be put out of business. ANd with the publicity the likes of Webb is now basking in - many a horse owner will also be out of work.

                            I do not think the statement about "they will just now sore the flat shod" should be made without some real exam of how they are going to do that.

                            ANd if this is a "their gonna do it any way" statement, well - all I have to say is this is the same mentality that left them stacks and chains. ANd it is a very strongly held opinion that the coveted founder crawl is only accomplished with stacks and chains and or soring. The bottom line is the action devices perpetuated the soring along with all the other evil "training" that came with hiding the soring.

                            New trainers ARE in town and are going right to the top with real horsemanship.

                            How bout a little hope with all your cautions?
                            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                            Comment


                            • I was trained as a DQP. I know how to sore up a horse. More importantly I know why to do it and when to do it. Soring is frankly a serious issue in the flat shod world but right now the spotlight is on the stacked up horse so the flat shod sorers have a small "reprieve."

                              As to mixing hope with caution, I don't believe in "blowing sunshine up your kilt" just because it makes folks feel good.

                              G.
                              Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                              Comment


                              • SO you contentd the flatshod world is a farce yet to be dealt with?
                                from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by FortheTWH View Post
                                  The only reason is because a bunch of new amendments and the like sitting in Congress right now got dumped after the election. Nothing personal or against HR 6388--we kind of half expected this. So all we need is for folks to contact their Congress persons and ask for it to be reintroduced. More important, contact the guy who introduced it to begin with--of course I don't have his name in front of me, but it should be on Popvox. We'll get it passed if we stay diligent!
                                  I just sent a message with a link to the original USHS video and the freaky canter video.
                                  Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                    I was trained as a DQP. I know how to sore up a horse. More importantly I know why to do it and when to do it. Soring is frankly a serious issue in the flat shod world but right now the spotlight is on the stacked up horse so the flat shod sorers have a small "reprieve."

                                    As to mixing hope with caution, I don't believe in "blowing sunshine up your kilt" just because it makes folks feel good.

                                    G.
                                    There is no why and when in soring.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                      SO you contentd the flatshod world is a farce yet to be dealt with?
                                      Absolutely.

                                      G.
                                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by gogaitedgo View Post
                                        There is no why and when in soring.
                                        Of course there is. If you don't understand this then you'll never solve the problem.

                                        G.
                                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                          SO you contentd the flatshod world is a farce yet to be dealt with?
                                          I have posted this story countless times but no one wants to hear it:

                                          SSHBEA Celebration, 2000 or 2001
                                          Horse: a 2 YO Lite Shod Gelding

                                          I was there with a friend, it was her horse that she had in training with a person who won the title of WGC SSH the year prior.

                                          I went to check on the horse. He was tied in his stall by a dry water bucket, in cottons and leg wraps. He was so tucked up in his flanks that I thought he was colicking. I tried to lead him out to let him move around, maybe offer grass, etc. He couldn't, or should I say, wouldn't. She looked at him and said "I didn't know he was going to fix him". She wouldn't look me in the eye. I was horrified. Flatly, totally, horrified.

                                          He was sored. A Lite Shod 2 YO in an association that doesn't even HAVE padded divisions.

                                          And he passed inspection. And he showed. And he sucked. And thank God he didn't place. She sold him soon afterward and I got the Hell out of that 'friendship'.

                                          One of my biggest regrets is that I didn't turn her in that moment. I had gone to Shelbyville with her, in her car. I knew no one else for miles. And I was afraid to turn her in. I'm ashamed to say that, but it's true.

                                          Comment

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