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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • What some Mainer thinks about BL horses won't much matter. Sorry Mainers

    What some Charity in Mississippi thinks about being associated with the BL horses, does matter.

    Encouraging more local coverage and pressure or even a generalized awareness via a magazine like Horse Illustrated, Equus, etc: that would help.

    It's not like the gen pop can pick up COTH at Books a Million.

    Comment


    • The COTH, as fine a publication as it is, has a circulation under 15,000. Western Horseman has a circulation of 160,000. Which has the better chance of making an impact on the broader horse world?

      You might try Sports Illustrated. They did the original expose' on the Big Lick cruelties back in the '50s. Their circulation is about 1,300,000.

      Of course if you want to really make a splash get AARP interested. Their flagship mag. has a circulation of over 13,000,000!

      Exposing your basic Big Lick supporter to the work Harry Whitney or Jimmy Wofford or any other real-deal trainer/instructor/rider would casting pearls before the swine. They would not care in the slightest. Remember that most Big Lick horses are owned by non-riding owners and are loved by non-riding fans. In that sense it's like TB flat racing.

      You can bet that after the McConnell fiasco the Big Lick barns are a LOT more careful about who they let in and what kind of pictures/video gets taken.

      Support of continued, aggressive enforcement of the HPA is the best thing most folks can do. Write to your Congressman/Senator and express your support. They really do pay attention of real letters from real constituents.

      G.
      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
        The way to get support for those trying to ban Big Lick and/or abusive practices and just plain abuse is to target the TWH audience. The people who will have an enormous affect on it...the ones who fund it and who watch it.
        Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Believe me, I've been involved with this for over a decade. Those who attend and fund these shows are people who consistently defend those who violate the HPA. These are people who grew up in this environment, so it's very normal to them to watch these horses struggle around the ring and call it great horsemanship and the horses "athletes." They have absolutely no problem with it.

        For example, I recently went on a Facebook group to ask some questions about why people continue to support these people. The excuses were varied and downright ridiculous. Oh, the horse had a fingernail tiny little scar and X from the USDA VMOs from the USDA was out to get me, so he gave me a ticket. The VMOs spend 20 minutes checking horses looking for any hair out of place (I tried asking did you miss the class because of it, because 20 minutes is a long time, and they had a fit). Just because so and so has 16 HPA violations doesn't mean the horses were sore--they could've been 16 horses that were being silly that day and happened to spook at something while the VMO was checking, so they got a ticket. The excuses were something else.

        It's very rare to find someone who actually sees what's going on. One guy on the thread did say that we need to stop rewarding these people; put in a three strikes and you're out rule. But he was in the minority.

        It is a warped and twisted society where abuse is the norm. These are people who backstab each other in the back one weekend and then are pals the next. They joke about getting their horses past USDA inspections, and they have methods that would blow your mind as to how they sore horses and it goes undetected. This industry knows full well what it's doing, and they brainwash others into thinking all of it is okay.

        So what we need are outsiders to expose what's going on. A COTH article would do wonders for the horse. Perhaps there are people out there who will write letters and make phone calls to support the new amendment. And they will spread the word to others, perhaps reaching someone who goes to these shows but doesn't know what goes on behind the scenes, and they will stop going.

        There is no change of heart within the industry. Don't get me wrong--some do change, but it's few and far between. These are people who "love" their horses because they are entertained by what they look like and how they are "trained" to get there. I equate the TWH industry to dog fighting, cock fighting, bear baiting, and horse tripping: they truly enjoy watching the suffering of other animals and are addicted to the power rush.
        Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
        www.forthetwh.com

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
          Fact is they can't, won't and don't. And no amount of words will show them. They have to see greatness at the side of a great horseman to appreciate it. They have to see balance to appreciate it. They need real horseman to show them.

          IF real horseman direct their attentions to them - like a good jerk on their chain - they will get the attention of that stacker crowd and THEN might be able to bring and invite them to a much better and higher place.
          Unforutnately, MANY of these people have seen TRUE horsemanship...and they laugh and poo-poo it. To them, it's all about quick fixes and easy ways out. They truly do not care about the horse's well being. Well women wear high heels and it hurts, so the horses can hurt too (never mind that a woman gets to take off her high heels at the end of the day). If he needs a little pain in his mouth to get his attention, so be it. If I have to whip him about the head to get him to mind, then I'll do it. To them, a horse is "finished" at 4 years old after a couple of shows. If they get on him and ride him at gait and he doesn't buck you off, he's broke. My own frustrations concerning the TWH world are tenfold--I have never seen a group that chooses to be so ignorant of proper training and is so ego-based like the TWH industry.

          Here's an example. One of my best friends and heroes is a woman who stood up against soring in 1995 and was in a way exiled by the industry because of her actions. She has since taken up endurance riding, and she truly does love her horses and works very hard to take good care of them. However, growing up in the TWH industry puts a certain mark on a person, so that mentality that horses are work animals and shouldn't be babied still exists, where "babied" means being patient and taking time to train them. She is very hard on her horses' mouths. While she does agree with horsemanship that is based in working from the ground up, she gets frustrated with having to take the time to do it. This doesn't make her a bad person, and I still love her dearly. She's getting better and better at being patient every time she's with her horses. It just shows how that mentality is very difficult to change.

          I wish you were right, hurleycane. I truly, truly do. But if you were, then soring would've ended 20 years ago when the "natural horsemanship" phase came about.

          I definitely agree that COTH should have an article about soring, though, just for the sole sake of exposing this more. The more it gets exposed, the less financial support the industry will get, and when the money goes away, so does the discipline.
          Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
          www.forthetwh.com

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            Lexington still talking about Senator Webb.

            http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/22/2...d-walking.html
            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

            Comment


            • WITW,

              And Coth is still talking (GOOD) about padding. There is a thread over on the dressage side. Talking about a freaky weirdest canter they have seen. Guess they do not walk "off-course" very often. At least more people are being aware of the evils of padded horses. Keeping it upfront and in the public eye of how wrong this is to do.

              BTW the link posted on the dressage side for a charity show in 2011, I feel so sorry for those horses. Horrible what they do. I saw the arena there looks pretty much empty. The hooters and hollarers were there though, only a few. I couldn't watch all of it. So sad. Why would anybody watching that think it was ok to do that to a horse?

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Thanks for the heads-up. Went and read it - good stuff. Im glad it was posted over in the Dressage forum by mistake. Does not hurt to spread awareness !
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                Comment


                • Agreed, WITW and rmh_rider!

                  Usually those watching it are just family and friends of those in the show. They don't get the big crowds like they used to at these shows.
                  Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
                  www.forthetwh.com

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                    Thanks for the heads-up. Went and read it - good stuff. Im glad it was posted over in the Dressage forum by mistake. Does not hurt to spread awareness !
                    And ditto the thanks for posting in dressage land. The responses and "interest" were great. And the thread made my point for COTH. Cause if nothing else, COTH serves its readers. Its readers are a sophisticated and righteous riding group. I mean one can not ride and be successful on an athletic unencumbered horse in an athletic endeavor without some real horsemanship, right?

                    I really appreciated and thumbs upped many of the comments but in particular the comments of the poster who wrote how these abhorrent ways become a group's identity, culture and tradition of "us." And how all manner of protectiveness ensues when the act is questioned by outsiders. No matter how horrid the act.

                    Do you think such a group of real dressage horseman would allow such atrocities? Do you think they would have allowed a law to be written 40 some years ago which Federally legalized stacks, chains and such use of a horse??


                    I think not. And yes unfortunately that is what the HPA did. Like a double edged sword it cuts back.

                    But as to COTH doing an article on this - think again about who those COTH readers are. Think about who is showcased in their articles. They are the very people we need to get on and bring an end to this. If they (true professional horseman and their clients) do not get involved, we are going to be reading this same thread 40 years from now.

                    George Morris, Catherine Haddad where are you? Oh! there you are glancing at COTH's latest article about your great achievements.

                    And given the surprise in the dressage canter thread, who knows. They may not be aware that it still goes on with a well funded hotness that intends to LEGALLY be here 40 years from now.

                    Perhaps such powerful clientele of such historically important horseman might mention the issue to a person of influence, or lend a word to a letter to end this practice. Or maybe even testify before Congress to shut this stacker/chained industry down.

                    Perhaps if a journalist from an elite-ly read and distributed magazine directed their attentions to the matter.... well who knows.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                    Comment


                    • Right now we have to show our support to help reintroduce h.r. 6388
                      https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr6388 Or write/email your congress person.

                      Agree with Katarine and G. on this, something like Horse illustrated, Western horseman, etc. would reach more people and get more support for h.r. 6388 (if it is reintroduced) and at least raise more awareness about the twh world.

                      To be quite honest, I never even new COTH magazine existed until very recently, while it would still be GREAT if they did an article, getting a larger mag with more readers and more diverse readers would be the better bet.

                      So on that note, I will be writing to the larger publications.
                      Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                      https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                      Comment


                      • Thanks for the link - https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr6388

                        Sent a note:
                        I support H.R. 6388 (112th) ("To amend the Horse Protection Act to designate additional unlawful acts under the Act, strengthen") because...

                        Some time ago (over 40 years), an unfortunate law was incompetently written to stop abuse of the gaited horse: The Horse Protection Act.

                        It was incompetent in that it did not recognize the total abuse in the way a real horseman would. You see it inadvertently legalized another abuse of the horse: the stacking, chaining and heavy weighting of the hoof.

                        By declaring these 'devices" legal, Congress made the USDA the steward of an affront to professional horsemen of not just the world, but also of the many before us who perfected great horsemanship through the centuries, from Xenephon to Gene Autry. They are turning in their graves over what the USA has permitted to be done to the gaited horse.

                        Several esteemed and recognized professional horse associations have sponsored HR6388.

                        Please hear them out and undo the legalization of horse abuse.
                        Revisit HR6388.
                        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                        Comment


                        • Had to put a cowboy in there - it is the USA you know! Did I misspell Xenephon??? :0
                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                          Comment


                          • Want to add the stacker crowd sure is chiming in on the above link.

                            What say YOU????

                            Are we gonna be reading this same thread again in 40 years??????
                            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                              Had to put a cowboy in there - it is the USA you know! Did I misspell Xenephon??? :0
                              Not sure, I think its Xenophon. Great note though!
                              Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                              https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                Want to add the stacker crowd sure is chiming in on the above link
                                Yes, if you take a look at the map the largest circle ( most amount of people) is orange (against) and its smack dab in Tennessee, the farther away from TN and that area of the south you get its green (for) and smaller circles.
                                Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                                https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                                Comment


                                • He's Back!! My man roy has been quiet for a while but He's back!

                                  http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/1/2...ike-Lance.aspx

                                  Comment


                                  • Okay everyone; here is what I see to be the best course of action...

                                    Below is Senator Webb's email address....send her an email and ask her~~~ you don't have to be nasty, but ask her to do the right thang and return the award so as not to embarrass the TWHBEA any further...don't make them have to rule on whether they should strip her of the award or not.

                                    After all, despite what she said she knew or did not know..she ultimately admitted to the crime and accepted the penalty

                                    Robin.Webb@lrc.ky.gov

                                    Comment


                                    • I did just send her an email and she responded right away. Denies everything, asks where I got my information, says she is proud of the award and it won't be stripped from her.
                                      What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!

                                      Comment


                                      • I think its too late for this petition...But I signed it anyway!
                                        Here's the link: https://www.change.org/petitions/mar...re_before_sign
                                        To stop the sale of BL horses at ky horse park
                                        Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
                                        https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406

                                        Comment


                                        • My memory is a bit addled, but aren't the USEF offices at the Kentucky Horse Park? Whether or not this is the case, how can they let this showcase happen in their back yard?

                                          Perhaps it's time for USEF members to let them know their opinions on this matter.
                                          They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

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