• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What some Mainer thinks about BL horses won't much matter. Sorry Mainers

    What some Charity in Mississippi thinks about being associated with the BL horses, does matter.

    Encouraging more local coverage and pressure or even a generalized awareness via a magazine like Horse Illustrated, Equus, etc: that would help.

    It's not like the gen pop can pick up COTH at Books a Million.


    • The COTH, as fine a publication as it is, has a circulation under 15,000. Western Horseman has a circulation of 160,000. Which has the better chance of making an impact on the broader horse world?

      You might try Sports Illustrated. They did the original expose' on the Big Lick cruelties back in the '50s. Their circulation is about 1,300,000.

      Of course if you want to really make a splash get AARP interested. Their flagship mag. has a circulation of over 13,000,000!

      Exposing your basic Big Lick supporter to the work Harry Whitney or Jimmy Wofford or any other real-deal trainer/instructor/rider would casting pearls before the swine. They would not care in the slightest. Remember that most Big Lick horses are owned by non-riding owners and are loved by non-riding fans. In that sense it's like TB flat racing.

      You can bet that after the McConnell fiasco the Big Lick barns are a LOT more careful about who they let in and what kind of pictures/video gets taken.

      Support of continued, aggressive enforcement of the HPA is the best thing most folks can do. Write to your Congressman/Senator and express your support. They really do pay attention of real letters from real constituents.

      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


      • Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
        The way to get support for those trying to ban Big Lick and/or abusive practices and just plain abuse is to target the TWH audience. The people who will have an enormous affect on it...the ones who fund it and who watch it.
        Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Believe me, I've been involved with this for over a decade. Those who attend and fund these shows are people who consistently defend those who violate the HPA. These are people who grew up in this environment, so it's very normal to them to watch these horses struggle around the ring and call it great horsemanship and the horses "athletes." They have absolutely no problem with it.

        For example, I recently went on a Facebook group to ask some questions about why people continue to support these people. The excuses were varied and downright ridiculous. Oh, the horse had a fingernail tiny little scar and X from the USDA VMOs from the USDA was out to get me, so he gave me a ticket. The VMOs spend 20 minutes checking horses looking for any hair out of place (I tried asking did you miss the class because of it, because 20 minutes is a long time, and they had a fit). Just because so and so has 16 HPA violations doesn't mean the horses were sore--they could've been 16 horses that were being silly that day and happened to spook at something while the VMO was checking, so they got a ticket. The excuses were something else.

        It's very rare to find someone who actually sees what's going on. One guy on the thread did say that we need to stop rewarding these people; put in a three strikes and you're out rule. But he was in the minority.

        It is a warped and twisted society where abuse is the norm. These are people who backstab each other in the back one weekend and then are pals the next. They joke about getting their horses past USDA inspections, and they have methods that would blow your mind as to how they sore horses and it goes undetected. This industry knows full well what it's doing, and they brainwash others into thinking all of it is okay.

        So what we need are outsiders to expose what's going on. A COTH article would do wonders for the horse. Perhaps there are people out there who will write letters and make phone calls to support the new amendment. And they will spread the word to others, perhaps reaching someone who goes to these shows but doesn't know what goes on behind the scenes, and they will stop going.

        There is no change of heart within the industry. Don't get me wrong--some do change, but it's few and far between. These are people who "love" their horses because they are entertained by what they look like and how they are "trained" to get there. I equate the TWH industry to dog fighting, cock fighting, bear baiting, and horse tripping: they truly enjoy watching the suffering of other animals and are addicted to the power rush.
        Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse


        • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
          Fact is they can't, won't and don't. And no amount of words will show them. They have to see greatness at the side of a great horseman to appreciate it. They have to see balance to appreciate it. They need real horseman to show them.

          IF real horseman direct their attentions to them - like a good jerk on their chain - they will get the attention of that stacker crowd and THEN might be able to bring and invite them to a much better and higher place.
          Unforutnately, MANY of these people have seen TRUE horsemanship...and they laugh and poo-poo it. To them, it's all about quick fixes and easy ways out. They truly do not care about the horse's well being. Well women wear high heels and it hurts, so the horses can hurt too (never mind that a woman gets to take off her high heels at the end of the day). If he needs a little pain in his mouth to get his attention, so be it. If I have to whip him about the head to get him to mind, then I'll do it. To them, a horse is "finished" at 4 years old after a couple of shows. If they get on him and ride him at gait and he doesn't buck you off, he's broke. My own frustrations concerning the TWH world are tenfold--I have never seen a group that chooses to be so ignorant of proper training and is so ego-based like the TWH industry.

          Here's an example. One of my best friends and heroes is a woman who stood up against soring in 1995 and was in a way exiled by the industry because of her actions. She has since taken up endurance riding, and she truly does love her horses and works very hard to take good care of them. However, growing up in the TWH industry puts a certain mark on a person, so that mentality that horses are work animals and shouldn't be babied still exists, where "babied" means being patient and taking time to train them. She is very hard on her horses' mouths. While she does agree with horsemanship that is based in working from the ground up, she gets frustrated with having to take the time to do it. This doesn't make her a bad person, and I still love her dearly. She's getting better and better at being patient every time she's with her horses. It just shows how that mentality is very difficult to change.

          I wish you were right, hurleycane. I truly, truly do. But if you were, then soring would've ended 20 years ago when the "natural horsemanship" phase came about.

          I definitely agree that COTH should have an article about soring, though, just for the sole sake of exposing this more. The more it gets exposed, the less financial support the industry will get, and when the money goes away, so does the discipline.
          Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse


          • Original Poster

            Lexington still talking about Senator Webb.

            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


            • WITW,

              And Coth is still talking (GOOD) about padding. There is a thread over on the dressage side. Talking about a freaky weirdest canter they have seen. Guess they do not walk "off-course" very often. At least more people are being aware of the evils of padded horses. Keeping it upfront and in the public eye of how wrong this is to do.

              BTW the link posted on the dressage side for a charity show in 2011, I feel so sorry for those horses. Horrible what they do. I saw the arena there looks pretty much empty. The hooters and hollarers were there though, only a few. I couldn't watch all of it. So sad. Why would anybody watching that think it was ok to do that to a horse?


              • Original Poster

                Thanks for the heads-up. Went and read it - good stuff. Im glad it was posted over in the Dressage forum by mistake. Does not hurt to spread awareness !
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


                • Agreed, WITW and rmh_rider!

                  Usually those watching it are just family and friends of those in the show. They don't get the big crowds like they used to at these shows.
                  Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse


                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                    Thanks for the heads-up. Went and read it - good stuff. Im glad it was posted over in the Dressage forum by mistake. Does not hurt to spread awareness !
                    And ditto the thanks for posting in dressage land. The responses and "interest" were great. And the thread made my point for COTH. Cause if nothing else, COTH serves its readers. Its readers are a sophisticated and righteous riding group. I mean one can not ride and be successful on an athletic unencumbered horse in an athletic endeavor without some real horsemanship, right?

                    I really appreciated and thumbs upped many of the comments but in particular the comments of the poster who wrote how these abhorrent ways become a group's identity, culture and tradition of "us." And how all manner of protectiveness ensues when the act is questioned by outsiders. No matter how horrid the act.

                    Do you think such a group of real dressage horseman would allow such atrocities? Do you think they would have allowed a law to be written 40 some years ago which Federally legalized stacks, chains and such use of a horse??

                    I think not. And yes unfortunately that is what the HPA did. Like a double edged sword it cuts back.

                    But as to COTH doing an article on this - think again about who those COTH readers are. Think about who is showcased in their articles. They are the very people we need to get on and bring an end to this. If they (true professional horseman and their clients) do not get involved, we are going to be reading this same thread 40 years from now.

                    George Morris, Catherine Haddad where are you? Oh! there you are glancing at COTH's latest article about your great achievements.

                    And given the surprise in the dressage canter thread, who knows. They may not be aware that it still goes on with a well funded hotness that intends to LEGALLY be here 40 years from now.

                    Perhaps such powerful clientele of such historically important horseman might mention the issue to a person of influence, or lend a word to a letter to end this practice. Or maybe even testify before Congress to shut this stacker/chained industry down.

                    Perhaps if a journalist from an elite-ly read and distributed magazine directed their attentions to the matter.... well who knows.
                    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


                    • Right now we have to show our support to help reintroduce h.r. 6388
                      https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr6388 Or write/email your congress person.

                      Agree with Katarine and G. on this, something like Horse illustrated, Western horseman, etc. would reach more people and get more support for h.r. 6388 (if it is reintroduced) and at least raise more awareness about the twh world.

                      To be quite honest, I never even new COTH magazine existed until very recently, while it would still be GREAT if they did an article, getting a larger mag with more readers and more diverse readers would be the better bet.

                      So on that note, I will be writing to the larger publications.
                      Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!


                      • Thanks for the link - https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr6388

                        Sent a note:
                        I support H.R. 6388 (112th) ("To amend the Horse Protection Act to designate additional unlawful acts under the Act, strengthen") because...

                        Some time ago (over 40 years), an unfortunate law was incompetently written to stop abuse of the gaited horse: The Horse Protection Act.

                        It was incompetent in that it did not recognize the total abuse in the way a real horseman would. You see it inadvertently legalized another abuse of the horse: the stacking, chaining and heavy weighting of the hoof.

                        By declaring these 'devices" legal, Congress made the USDA the steward of an affront to professional horsemen of not just the world, but also of the many before us who perfected great horsemanship through the centuries, from Xenephon to Gene Autry. They are turning in their graves over what the USA has permitted to be done to the gaited horse.

                        Several esteemed and recognized professional horse associations have sponsored HR6388.

                        Please hear them out and undo the legalization of horse abuse.
                        Revisit HR6388.
                        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


                        • Had to put a cowboy in there - it is the USA you know! Did I misspell Xenephon??? :0
                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


                          • Want to add the stacker crowd sure is chiming in on the above link.

                            What say YOU????

                            Are we gonna be reading this same thread again in 40 years??????
                            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


                            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                              Had to put a cowboy in there - it is the USA you know! Did I misspell Xenephon??? :0
                              Not sure, I think its Xenophon. Great note though!
                              Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!


                              • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                Want to add the stacker crowd sure is chiming in on the above link
                                Yes, if you take a look at the map the largest circle ( most amount of people) is orange (against) and its smack dab in Tennessee, the farther away from TN and that area of the south you get its green (for) and smaller circles.
                                Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!


                                • He's Back!! My man roy has been quiet for a while but He's back!



                                  • Okay everyone; here is what I see to be the best course of action...

                                    Below is Senator Webb's email address....send her an email and ask her~~~ you don't have to be nasty, but ask her to do the right thang and return the award so as not to embarrass the TWHBEA any further...don't make them have to rule on whether they should strip her of the award or not.

                                    After all, despite what she said she knew or did not know..she ultimately admitted to the crime and accepted the penalty



                                    • I did just send her an email and she responded right away. Denies everything, asks where I got my information, says she is proud of the award and it won't be stripped from her.
                                      What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!


                                      • I think its too late for this petition...But I signed it anyway!
                                        Here's the link: https://www.change.org/petitions/mar...re_before_sign
                                        To stop the sale of BL horses at ky horse park
                                        Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!


                                        • My memory is a bit addled, but aren't the USEF offices at the Kentucky Horse Park? Whether or not this is the case, how can they let this showcase happen in their back yard?

                                          Perhaps it's time for USEF members to let them know their opinions on this matter.
                                          They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                          Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.