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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • I am not sure if this was posted yet:

    http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2...violating.html

    A high-profile walking horse proponent and padded horse rider, Kentucky state Sen. Robin Webb, D-Grayson, has suffered an equine black eye.

    At the North Carolina Walking Horse Association championships in October, Webb was cited for violations involving two horses.

    "Senator Robin Webb Busted" read the headline Dec. 4 on an anti-soring blog called "For the Tennessee Walking Horse."

    According to the USDA's database of Horse Protection Act violations, Webb was ticketed for violating the "scar rule," which establishes criteria to look for certain scars on the horse that are considered evidence that a horse has been "sored" and is ineligible to compete. Webb, as owner, was cited as a responsible party for two horses, Air Force One and Showstopper.

    In an interview last week with the Herald-Leader, Webb denied soring either horse and said she did not see anything wrong with the animals at the time of the competition.

    "I don't sore my horses," Webb said. "I love my horses, and my horses love me."

    She said Showstopper is a young horse whom she bought not long before the show; Air Force One is a prize-winning horse she has ridden in shows for years without incident, including a week after he failed the inspection.

    "They were turned down on a scar rule and sent back to the barn," she said. "The scar rule is very subjective."

    She said she did not appeal because she never received paperwork on either violation and, as far as she knows, she was not suspended.

    Her trainer, Donald Stamper of Richmond, also was cited. Stamper confirmed Webb has horses in his barn but said he did not recall the incident.

    "Where was this at, now?" Stamper asked in response to a reporter's question. He hung up when asked for comment on his role.

    Webb also has been a vocal opponent of federal legislation, filed by U.S. Rep. Ed Whitfield, R-Hopkinsville, to ban the use of pads and chains, called "action devices," on horses.

    "The Whitfield bill is extreme," Webb said last week.

    Whitfield said in a statement Friday that his bill "eliminates the self-policing system currently employed, allowing for a more uniform enforcement. ... It is far from 'extreme,' which is why it carries the support of the American Veterinarian Medical Association, the American Association of Equine Practitioners and numerous others."

    The American Association of Equine Practitioners, headquartered at the Kentucky Horse Park, has said the ban is necessary to end soring.

    Dr. René A. Carlson, president of the American Veterinarian Medical Association, said in June that her group is asking for a ban on "the use of action devices and performance packages in the training and showing of walking horses, because they appear to be facilitating soring."

    The U.S. Equestrian Federation, also headquartered at the Horse Park, also does not allow the use of action devices in the show ring.

    At the annual meeting of the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association in December, Webb criticized the AAEP and other veterinary groups who have called for a ban, dubbing them "agenda-driven entities."

    Webb was honored by Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association as its 2012 Performance Horse Ambassador for her participation in USDA discussions.

    Last week, Webb told the Herald-Leader that the Tennessee walking horse has been "demonized," particularly in light of a video, shot by an undercover investigator from the Humane Society of the United States, showing top walking horse trainer Jackie L. McConnell abusing horses in his Tennessee barn.

    Webb said the footage, in which McConnell was shown striking tied-up horses in the face, was taken out of context.

    "You don't know what happened five minutes before or five minutes after. ... These are animals that are very dangerous," Webb said. "Every breed has training techniques that animal-rights groups find offensive."

    Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2...#storylink=cpy
    Last edited by luvmytbs; Jan. 13, 2013, 01:52 PM.
    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

    Comment


    • She sounds lovely.

      (insert dripping sarcasm here)

      There are so many things a large, man eating, dangerous, poisonous, venom spitting horse can do to a person while tied, down in a stall or being ridden by that merit the use of an electric shock to the mouth or flailing like a little girl with a bat trying to womp it in the face from a distance, or finally growing a partial set of mouse-gonads and hitting a horse while it;s down.


      Heck, I worked with problem horses and never ever ONCE had to use a cattle prod or whack them in the face with anything or hit one while it was down.

      But then I also never purposely made them painful and then tried to make them walk like the front end was a spastic epileptic spider monkey on crack wearing hooker-heels and the back end had a log jammed up it's arse.


      I'm weird like that.
      You jump in the saddle,
      Hold onto the bridle!
      Jump in the line!
      ...Belefonte

      Comment


      • The good news is once HR6388 passes, the folks that defend mechanical, forced and shut down "training techniques" that the stacked horsed epitomizes will look out from the firery hell they stoked and hopefully will either get out of animals all together, or they will be drawn into the reality of what real horsemanship can be.

        They will be drawn by the folks who would not give them a pass on all their sorry excuses and rantings (see Misty Blue above - good analagy).

        Or they will be in jail.

        Sounds like a good deal to me.
        from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          An interesting read along with the comments below the article. Performance horse issues continue to hit the news since the airing of the Jackie McConnell video LAST MAY. Get a clue, Big Lickers, it is not going away this time. The dust didnt settle after Celebration like it has in the past. Thanks to everyone keeping this issue alive.
          We all are making a difference !

          http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2...#storylink=cpy
          from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

          Comment


          • It's pretty obvious BD is no horseman.

            Comment


            • http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2...#storylink=cpy

              Oh my - good link WITW. Though it was difficult to tolerate the comments by the stacked guys in the article ("good product" my butuckus), it is a well summed up read on the topic.

              I groaned with the the stacker saying "they invite the USDA..." LOL. It is like prisoners saying they hired armed guards to watch how nice they play hoops in the yard.

              Let them not forget, inspectors are there because they have this special law written for all the nasty abuses they try to legitimize.

              And though Jason Crawthorn, is not at all associated with the the soring and stacked crew - (his horseman ship is there) - I take issue with this:
              "I feel like if the International Walking Horse Association does the inspections, only sound horses will show," said Jason Crawhorn, NWHA president.


              There is this little thing this stacked crew does at home that they call training that we can never ever trust. We should never refer to their horses as sound.

              HR6388.
              from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

              Comment


              • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                I am not sure if this was posted yet:

                http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2...violating.html

                A high-profile walking horse proponent and padded horse rider,

                Last week, Webb told the Herald-Leader that the Tennessee walking horse has been "demonized," particularly in light of a video, shot by an undercover investigator from the Humane Society of the United States, showing top walking horse trainer Jackie L. McConnell abusing horses in his Tennessee barn.

                Webb said the footage, in which McConnell was shown striking tied-up horses in the face, was taken out of context.

                "You don't know what happened five minutes before or five minutes after. ... These are animals that are very dangerous," Webb said. "Every breed has training techniques that animal-rights groups find offensive."

                Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/01/12/2...#storylink=cpy
                *Groans again.*

                Her comment really reinforces the notion that these stackers draw a dumb clientele.
                from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                Comment


                • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                  *Groans again.*

                  Her comment really reinforces the notion that these stackers draw a dumb clientele.
                  You should see how she is crying foul on her FB page.

                  I have to say I am really thrilled the focus is now also including KY.
                  ************************
                  \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                  Comment


                  • Germantown also decided not to hold padded horse classes at their 2013 show. Flatshod only.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TnXC View Post
                      Germantown also decided not to hold padded horse classes at their 2013 show. Flatshod only.
                      SWEEETTTT.......

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                        *Groans again.*

                        Her comment really reinforces the notion that these stackers draw a dumb clientele.
                        I soo agree. It is just unfathomable that these folks, who claim to know horses, can look at these animals and think this is okay. It boggles...

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          It goes beyond Germantown ! USEF has taken a stand as follows:

                          USEF Rule Change Prohibits Performance Tennessee Walking Horses at Germantown
                          Monday, January 14, 2013

                          The 2013 Germantown Charity Horse Show will offer only pleasure Tennessee Walking Horse classes in June. Although the Germantown Charity board of directors was in favor of offering the performance classes, a recent United States Equestrian Federation (USEF) rule will prohibit the performance classes from being offered. The Germantown Charity Horse Show relies on the multi-breed aspect of the show and can't afford to lose its USEF rating for those other divisions.

                          The USEF rule reads as follows:

                          GR839.4n
                          n. Soreing and/or the use of an action device on any limb of a Tennessee Walking Horse, Racking Horse, or Spotted Saddle Horse (each a breed not recognized by the Federation) in any class at a Federation Licensed Competition is prohibited. An action device is defined by the USDA as any boot, collar, chain, roller, or other device that encircles or is placed upon the lower extremity of the leg of a horse in such a manner that it can rotate around the leg or slide up and down the leg so as to cause friction or strike the hoof, coronet band, fetlock joint or pastern of the horse. (Protective bell boots or heel boots are specifically excluded from this definition). The use of a weighted shoe, pad, wedge, in conjunction with a hoof band or other device or material (commonly referred to as a performance package) placed on, inserted in, or attached to any limb of a Tennessee Walking Horse, a Racking Horse, or Spotted Saddle Horse (each a breed not recognized by the Federation) constructed to artificially alter the gait of such a horse, and which are not protective or therapeutic in nature, in classes at a Federation Licensed Competition is prohibited. EC 12/17/12 Effective Immediately.

                          The 2013 Germantown Charity Horse Show will be held June 4-8, 2013 at the show grounds in Germantown, Tenn.
                          from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                          Comment


                          • They went beyond prohibiting stackers - they invoked HR6388.

                            Effective immediately ... About time - this has been over 40 years in the making.

                            USEF!!!!! WOOT!!!
                            from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                              They went beyond prohibiting stackers - they invoked HR6388.

                              Effective immediately ... About time - this has been over 40 years in the making.

                              USEF!!!!! WOOT!!!
                              So, Hurley, Can I assume that you think that the HR6388 will pass?? I am just curious.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                Isnt it a pity that TWHBEA and the Sore Lick industry didnt take the lead in eradicating soring? This travesty should have been taken care of within the TWH community. Kind of unreal that the government had to step in to clean up their mess. Isnt it great that USEF is taking a stand ? I wonder how many Celebration "prep" shows will no longer be able to "showcase" the Licker's horses. Germantown was one of the bigger ones.
                                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                Comment


                                • You know something WITW, I think USEF can really clean house if they take this power of theirs one step further.

                                  I think they could easily go beyond just invoking HR6388 at their shows. They could also disallow any show to be USEF sanctioned if held at a venue which permits showing with such action devices.

                                  I mean think about it.

                                  Like in the case of the horse park and the upcoming stacked sale. Would it not be grand if USEF said "If you host a stacked event - no more USEF acknowledgement for you Mr Horse park for X # of years."

                                  That would give the Park a good out.

                                  ANd God bless them. USEF is showing us all, it does not need enactment of a government law to exert intense pressure on this industry. Like I whined a good long while ago - professional horsemen associations need to really get involved in this. Once they do - real change will come.

                                  Wanted to add, some TWH grapevine folks I know say more and more of the larger TWH Racking and SSH barns are moving out of the stacked business all together. Cause the money is in the flat shod horse. Not cause their conscious is changed mind you.

                                  I just hope they leave all the soring too.
                                  from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                  Comment


                                  • Not to be a Debby Downer but they could have done that years ago when the TWH was ousted form the AHSA/USEF. I thought they did because they completely disappeared in the Upper Midwest Circuits. I thought they no longer showed with ASB circuit because they were completely ostracized. I never even suspected they would be anywhere else but their own shows. Holy liability to include them. Especially if they invite chaos and problems.

                                    Comment


                                    • One of the goals of the stacker's is to gain some level of legitimacy through the purple effort, right? Well would not holding events at a premiere park be a purple accomplishment toward a goal of legitimacy? Kinda like when saddlebred folks said they showed at The Garden, or hunters/Jumpers at Rolex. See my point?

                                      So since USEF has such cash and legitimacy meaning for venues and locations (ie the Georgetown show), USEF imposing a time out penalty on locations/venue if that venue allows non HR6388 compliant competitions would be an additional pressure to end the stacking chaining stuff.

                                      Not saying we do not need HR6388, or the Horse Protection act - we still need for people to do jail time if they abuse animals - but we also need professional horsemen and their associations to impose HR6388.

                                      For instance, even though Saddlebreds and Morgans no longer show with the walking horses at the local fair grounds - the stackers still show at the fair grounds. Closing that door will have a great impact on the stacker's customers (bottom line). Cause the fair grounds is a very nice place to show and these customers sure like riding in the big areana with their friends and family looking on. What if they got told - the fair grounds will not let us come anymore because we stack and chain horses??? See the curtain dropping????

                                      And so one sure fire way to close door of legitimacy that being at the fair grounds provides would be for the Saddlebreds and Morgans to tell the fair grounds their rules do not permit them to use a facility which does not operate under the spirit of HR6388. And that future engagements will be moved to another city or location if stacked chained events are held there.

                                      See what I mean?

                                      USEF can push a little further.
                                      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
                                        You know something WITW, I think USEF can really clean house if they take this power of theirs one step further.

                                        I think they could easily go beyond just invoking HR6388 at their shows. They could also disallow any show to be USEF sanctioned if held at a venue which permits showing with such action devices.

                                        I mean think about it.

                                        Like in the case of the horse park and the upcoming stacked sale. Would it not be grand if USEF said "If you host a stacked event - no more USEF acknowledgement for you Mr Horse park for X # of years."

                                        That would give the Park a good out.

                                        ANd God bless them. USEF is showing us all, it does not need enactment of a government law to exert intense pressure on this industry. Like I whined a good long while ago - professional horsemen associations need to really get involved in this. Once they do - real change will come.

                                        Wanted to add, some TWH grapevine folks I know say more and more of the larger TWH Racking and SSH barns are moving out of the stacked business all together. Cause the money is in the flat shod horse. Not cause their conscious is changed mind you.

                                        I just hope they leave all the soring too.
                                        I am assuming that you feel flat shod means no soring, no pressuring shoeing, no nothing abusive? That is where you are incorrect!!

                                        Comment


                                        • I am surprised you would say this cordial.

                                          Do YOU understand that a barefoot horse can be sored?

                                          Do you?
                                          from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

                                          Comment

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