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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • And I fully back making bands illegal in any show venue for just this reason. It allows the stacking and heavy shoeing. Nary a foot out there that can support the atrocities tossed on these horses without the bands.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

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    • ...sensitive in the pasterns.... The law can not change quick enough.
      from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

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      • Originally posted by CFFarm View Post
        So these horses don't need to be "sensitive in the pastern" (can't bring yourself to use the term SORED)? But they do need stacks and weight to perform the "natural" big lick? If that gait it's so "natural" why not let them perform without them?
        Being sore has a million degrees. From Pure torture and agony, to just being a little more sensitive than normal....

        When did I say it was natural? I said the pads and chains cause a "natural" reaction and that a horse must have inborn ability to preform the BL...

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        • Original Poster

          Thanks for posting. Kinda sums it all up.
          from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

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          • Originally posted by hurleycane View Post
            They do not bleed with a normal useful shoe when they step it off. So indeed it did. ANd it did it to the point of bleeding. A serious injury in any book.
            But remember, It's all ok. The big lick folks see shoes and partial hooves pulled off a lot. Also remember, "many of them" are not serious.

            I don't find it OK, but I guess if you see it often enough, one can get "conditioned" into thinking it's no big deal. Frightening, really, that people can think like that.

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            • Originally posted by BradleyDick View Post
              And why can't it?? I'm sorry but you are highly mistaken, I've seen it done with my own eyes many many times.

              Some trainers do rather long shanks, and some use quite normal shanked bits.

              I didn't say that no one else was abusive or has been abusive... But it is wrong to assume that even a majority of the show horses are truly abused... That's giving into sensationalism....

              I think the big lick gait can not be achieved with out the horse having a genetic predisposition and the inborn ability to preform it.

              And no, when the horses are shod properly, condictioned properly, handled and treated properly, then there is no pain, no abuse, no harm, and the horse still able to "wave it's legs", stride deep and shake it's head vigorously.
              A padded performance horse can be exercised up and down hills??? HOW?? They can barely walk, or turn, as it is unless they are on the manicured surface of a show ring.

              Have you been brainwashed or are you just that callous to the animals that will try their best to do what you ask, even though it is unnatural and causes them pain?

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              • Keep those letters and calls going.

                The more I hear them justify - the more I see the need for the law. This twisted view afforded by a couple of posters on this thread combined with the reality of the McConnell tape and his WGC title show the absolute futility of expecting any "self regulating" by his stacked chained crowd.

                We need an absolute ban.
                from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor

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                • Original Poster

                  So many Lickers digging in their heels and justifying what they do. The AVMA and AAEP dont buy it. Either does anyone with a modicum of compassion and knowledge.
                  from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

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                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                    So many Lickers digging in their heels and justifying what they do. The AVMA and AAEP dont buy it. Either does anyone with a modicum of compassion and knowledge.
                    They are far too intelligent to buy the Lickers BS!!!

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                    • Originally posted by BradleyDick View Post
                      Condictioning such as that thing called riding, exersizing, proper communication with good hands, going up and down hills, using the right bit that the horse has favor of, does the need round work or strait work, or does he/she need a cart, does the horse need a half shoe on Monday and Tueday but then full rubber on Wednesday Thursday and Friday and peeks Friday night for the show. Maybe one leg needs a slight bit more restiatance than the other so that the horse travels evenly... .
                      I read this and in the main agree. What you describe IS conditioning a horse (although I don't know what you mean by "half shoe...full rubber" and therefore exclude it from my agreement). I don't understand why it isn't sufficient to then allow the horse to express the gait created by the work described above without further manipulating the gait mechanically by the use of stacks, pads, chains, etc.

                      You also wrote that you are unaware of extensive studies. Does that mean that there are some studies that might not be as extensive?

                      Here's my issue with the Big Lick gait: the natural conformation of the horse is to have it's center of gravity at the wither. That's why the vertebral processes are longest there, creating the wither. The horse is naturally a suspension bridge with the head and neck suspended out front and the hind quarters in the other direction. The hind legs are meant to provide power, and support the majority of weight only in short spurts.

                      Do we train horses to carry more weight on their hind legs other then Big Lick? Absolutely. This is what collection in dressage is, this is what any good reining or cutting horse can do and this is what jumpers do at take off, for example.. Arguably, an illustration of the most collected non-stacked horses I can think of are those of the Spanish Riding School (SRS). Those horses perform incredible feats of collection (e.g. levade) where they bring their hind ends way up under them and carry all of their weight there. However, they do this without extreme shoeing, and if you've ever watched a performance, no horse is expected to stay in high collection for more than a very few moments. SRS horses routinely perform into their late teens if not 20s, and it is easy to see that their entire bodies have been carefully developed over time to create the strength for the collected movements. Furthermore, when they aren't performing the collected movements, they have no continued stress on their bodies/ hindquarters. Within minutes, they are able to return to a more natural balance. Stacking etc. allows no relief for the horse within moments of performance because it's semi-permanent.

                      Mr. Dick, you argue that genetics and selective breeding allow the Big Lick horse to perform the extreme overstep and sinking of the hind end. I would argue that unless the TWH now has longer vertebral processes in it's sacral area, breeding hasn't changed the basic mechanics of the TWH. They are the same as all horses. Instead, breeding has selected for temperaments that will tolerate the demands, which I believe are abusive demands, that are being made upon them.

                      The TWH is a wonderful, elegant, athletic, good tempered breed. Why isn't that enough?
                      Last edited by frugalannie; Nov. 26, 2012, 12:34 PM. Reason: typo
                      They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                      Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                      Comment


                      • Sorry. Double posted.
                        They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                        Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                          A padded performance horse can be exercised up and down hills??? HOW?? They can barely walk, or turn, as it is unless they are on the manicured surface of a show ring.

                          Have you been brainwashed or are you just that callous to the animals that will try their best to do what you ask, even though it is unnatural and causes them pain?
                          They are often, after show season is over, turned out in a pasture, and can canter around with EASE!

                          Comment


                          • The most satisfying emotion a Preacher can get is ~~~ to see the people "Get It!"

                            I am so proud of y'all! You have educated yourself to the point that you can logically, intelligently, and assertively express your point of view, and has not on any one post, gotten nasty, personal of mean-spirited!!

                            Y'all are chasing him "To Ground" go on y'all work it on out let's see how long and far he can go with the smoke and mirrors before y'all catch him good with a chunked rock!

                            I have been told that on his lil group, a link was sent to his peeps to come and look at what y'all are doing and saying, one person said that y'all are nasty...I don't see it...but when they purposely "push" your buttons to get you to "lose It"...don't let them have the satisfaction ~~~ more will probably sign on...

                            This club is not called one of the oldest for no reason...

                            The Preacher

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                            • Originally posted by cordial View Post
                              They are often, after show season is over, turned out in a pasture, and can canter around with EASE!

                              I took the post to mean that a padded horse (meaning a horse currently on stacks) was trained by doing hill work. I see now Bradley Dick did not mean the horse was currently on stacks while it was doing hill work. Rather at some point when the stacks are off, the horses are conditioned with hill work. Big difference there!

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                              • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                                I took the post to mean that a padded horse (meaning a horse currently on stacks) was trained by doing hill work. I see now Bradley Dick did not mean the horse was currently on stacks while it was doing hill work. Rather at some point when the stacks are off, the horses are conditioned with hill work. Big difference there!

                                There is no reason that a Padded horse can't do a hill exercise.

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                                • Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                                  I took the post to mean that a padded horse (meaning a horse currently on stacks) was trained by doing hill work. I see now Bradley Dick did not mean the horse was currently on stacks while it was doing hill work. Rather at some point when the stacks are off, the horses are conditioned with hill work. Big difference there!

                                  No I mean that a horse on pads can be ridden up and down hills with no trouble at all.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by BradleyDick View Post
                                    No I mean that a horse on pads can be ridden up and down hills with no trouble at all.
                                    ok, then, what kind of hills are you talking about? When I think "hill work", I see long sloping hills, as well as steep hills All I can see with a padded horse doing it is the horse toppling over backwards while trying to dig into the dirt/grass of a big, long hill, not being able to support and balance themselves. With the way their front hooves are elevated, the angles that creates and, the strain of pulling themselves and pushing from the hind, it sounds very dangerous for the horse. Not to mention going DOWN hill. The strain on the front legs would be enormous.

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                                    • Yes, exactly the same hills you're thinking

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                                      • If you want to build muscle and balance with hill work, take the clown shoes off and do long trots. Absolutely no reason to work a horse hard with stacks on. Cripes, they can barely get around a show ring without huffing, puffing & their sides heaving. That just shows a lack of horsemanship and concern for your animal.

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                                        • Walking horses don't trot......

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