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Tennessee Walking Horse Soring Issue *Update post 1*

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  • Originally posted by The Preacher View Post
    (YEA Wayne Pacelle & Keith Dane, my horses loves you!) under cover Video, but you can go to my website and see it all in one place

    http://www.walkinonranch.com

    I would be more than happy to answer any question my friends here have...
    this is a EVERBODY Thing!

    Good talkin to ya again

    The Preacher
    Champagne Watchout
    Walkin On Ranch of Cookeville, TN
    That was a very interesting post, and thank you for your part in bringing this all to light.

    I also just wrote in another post that Champagne Watchout is one of the most appealing horses I have ever seen. You are a very lucky person to be his steward.

    But I am astounded that you think Wayne Pacelle is your friend as regards your horses, or that he is a positive for the horse world at large.

    If truth be told, Wayne Pacelle, by his own admission, would rather that Champagne Watchout was never foaled.

    ...and his life is dedicated to a future which reflects that....
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Amwrider View Post
      Let's make sure that when thanking Pepsi for pulling their sponsorship, we also ask that they NOT support the HSUS with the money they are saving by not sponsoring the Celebration.

      HSUS did do the video, but money would be better donated to local shelters.

      I just have a gut feeling that HSUS will be after Pepsi for the sponsorship money.
      It makes me a little ill to think that HSUS will certainly reap great financial reward for this expose. And perhaps they should, they did a good job exposing a serious problem. But it still does not sit right with me.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by sketcher View Post
        It makes me a little ill to think that HSUS will certainly reap great financial reward for this expose. And perhaps they should, they did a good job exposing a serious problem. But it still does not sit right with me.
        But that is their M.O. -- high profile tug-at-the-heartstrings exposés and missions, designed to get people to open their wallets so that they can continue to fund their legal campaigns against the rest of the animal-owning public, a little at a time....
        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

        Comment


        • The news has made it to CNN:

          http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justic...ss_igoogle_cnn
          "We don't ride the clock. We ride the horse." Reiner Klimke.
          http://community.webshots.com/user/arnikaelf

          Comment


          • Please let's keep our attention focused!

            Someone above has asked that this thread please stay "on target," and I agree. We have a window of opportunity here to right a serious wrong, one that no civilized society should be tolerating in 2012.

            Whatever you may think of HSUS (and I'm with you!), whatever training methods may be used for ASB,'s these are side issues not particularly relevant to helping THIS situation, right now! I'm not a mod, but perhaps another thread for those discussions might be in order.

            Please let's keep this thread focused on news updates, outing sponsors and executives of the pertinent organizations, and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ATROCITIES.

            Many thanks!
            Last edited by SwampYankee; May. 18, 2012, 09:48 AM. Reason: typo

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Will read the CNN report soon as the coffee kicks in.

              As far as ths HSUS goes you will notice that I didnt put a link in post 147 to thank them. Although their footage helped this whole McConnell mess be shown to the masses and I am glad for the exposure, I do not support them.

              Originally posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
              http://news.yahoo.com/pepsi-drops-sp...2--sector.html

              [B]But the undercover operations also have prompted a backlash from some farm state lawmakers, who have passed laws to make it a criminal offense to infiltrate an agricultural business.
              Who do you all think of this ? I know that many of the abusive practices that show horses endure take place at home, before the trailer ride to the show. Do these laws include training farms ? I wonder what states have passed these new laws. I need to know more. These sort of laws will protect not only the innocent, but sadly the perpetrators also.
              from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Thanks Swamp Yankee - i included some of your ideas on the resource post#147. keep the good ideas coming !
                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                  Who do you all think of this ? I know that many of the abusive practices that show horses endure take place at home, before the trailer ride to the show. Do these laws include training farms ? I wonder what states have passed these new laws. I need to know more. These sort of laws will protect not only the innocent, but sadly the perpetrators also.
                  But the so-called "ag gag" bills do NOT stop undercover operations - they stop someone from obtaining a job under false pretenses and for the purpose of filming "abuse." The guy that made this video was a legitimate employee of the barn - he merely accepted H$U$ money in exchange for the film.
                  Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                  "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    Thanks for clearing that up The Barn Rules and i love your tagline !
                    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rapaloosa View Post
                      From what I understand one of the favored abuses of the American Saddlebreds is breaking the tails and forcing the horses to wear a tail set to reset the horse tail into the high carriage. They have to wear the tail set mechanism most of their life to maintain the set, which means they are confined to stalls almost all of their lives. This of course as in many abuses applies to horses that are being shown.
                      I have never had saddlebreds or TWH or any of the others, but really check your facts before posting disparaging statements. I don't like tail sets either, but I did sell a former saddlebred show horse to a friend that is absolutely the BEST saint of a horse I have encountered in a lot of years. The horse has a "broken" tail and wore a tail set while he was shown. He carries his tail normally now, lives outside 24/7 and the only way you would know is if you grad his tail and he tries to swish it, it has an extra "break" in it that makes it wag with an extra joint. Does not affect his ability to swat flies or impair him in any way. DON"T GET ME WRONG, I hate the idea that they do it to them but at least it does NOT impair them for life and leave them doomed to life in a stall or an inability to swat flies...........

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SwampYankee View Post
                        Someone above has asked that this thread please stay "on target," and I agree. We have a window of opportunity here to right a serious wrong, one that no civilized society should be tolerating in 2012.

                        Whatever you may think of HSUS (and I'm with you!), whatever training methods may be used for ASB,'s these are side issues not particularly relevant to helping THIS situation, right now! I'm not a mod, but perhaps another thread for those discussions might be in order.

                        Please let's keep this thread focused on news updates, outing sponsors and executives of the pertinent organizations, and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ATROCITIES.

                        Many thanks!
                        Couldn't disagree more - the HSUS angle is germane, and I think we can all walk and chew gum at the same time

                        Unless of course, you are the OP? If you are, my apologies.
                        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                          Thanks for clearing that up

                          Well, now I'm a little confused - the CNN story says the person that made the film had only worked at the barn for a couple of months and the Yahoo story says he was a RARA placed there by H$U$, so I'm not sure if he was a "legitimate" employee or not.
                          Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

                          "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Originally posted by TheBarnRules View Post
                            Well, now I'm a little confused - the CNN story says the person that made the film had only worked at the barn for a couple of months and the Yahoo story says he was a RARA placed there by H$U$, so I'm not sure if he was a "legitimate" employee or not.
                            He may well have been a true employee. Around that time there was a cash reward out for workers to video abuse.
                            from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                            Comment


                            • About the AG GAG legislation:

                              http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/0...-on-the-books/

                              Iowa and Utah enacted new laws, while ag-gag bills were killed in Florida, Illinois and Indiana. Ag-gag bills remain pending in Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New York and Tennessee.
                              ************************
                              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                This whole mess brings up philosphical issues. Is it right for the end to justify the means ? Was the worker a plant or a true employee who did the right thing/needed the reward ? Am i thankful that the film exposed abuse ? yes Is my thankfulness (along with mistrust of HSUS) tantamount to wearing blinkers in that i can appreciate the result while not condoning some of the process ? In this case, even if he was a plant i feel it was a good thing because of the nature of the abuse. But planting and exposing can be misused and dangerous to folks who are doing the right thing for their animals, when zealots are the ones who get to edit and editorialize the footage.
                                from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                  About the AG GAG legislation:

                                  http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/0...-on-the-books/

                                  Iowa and Utah enacted new laws, while ag-gag bills were killed in Florida, Illinois and Indiana. Ag-gag bills remain pending in Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New York and Tennessee.
                                  There will be interesting challenges to these laws when true journos or filmmakers engage in undercover investigative
                                  reporting.
                                  Proud Member of the League of Weenie Eventers
                                  Proud Member of the Courageous Weenie Eventers Clique

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
                                    This whole mess brings up philosphical issues. Is it right for the end to justify the means ? Was the worker a plant or a true employee who did the right thing/needed the reward ? Am i thankful that the film exposed abuse ? yes Is my thankfulness (along with mistrust of HSUS) tantamount to wearing blinkers in that i can appreciate the result while not condoning some of the process ? In this case, even if he was a plant i feel it was a good thing because of the nature of the abuse. But planting and exposing can be misused and dangerous to folks who are doing the right thing for their animals, when zealots are the ones who get to edit and editorialize the footage.
                                    Well, there you go. What compromises are you willing to
                                    make? My first post in this topic said I was right there till I found out who was behind it.

                                    Every piece of film or video has a point of view, everything can be manipulated. It's a matter of whether you trust the source so you have to do your homework. There are news channels I won't watch because I find their reporting biased to the extreme and woefully inaccurate.

                                    Some here have decided HSUS is tolerable because they brought this issue to a national audience. Will they find HSUS tolerable the next time?
                                    Last edited by CarrieK; May. 18, 2012, 11:45 AM. Reason: darn phones autocorrect
                                    Proud Member of the League of Weenie Eventers
                                    Proud Member of the Courageous Weenie Eventers Clique

                                    Comment


                                    • StormWarrior - your post, although correct, is not needed here. This topic is about the TWH Big Lick horrors. There is absolutely no need to get all defensive, the Saddlebred is not what is being addressed here, and as has been requested several times on this topic, it needs to be left out of this discussion. If you feel a need to defend, start a new topic please. Please don't defend what isn't relevant to this thread.
                                      Susan N.

                                      Don't get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Here is an eye opener about soring Spotted Saddle Horses. The link will be added to good old post 147, the resource post. I quote this from the page: This is the entire transcript of the sentencing of Barney Davis. As part of his plea bargain, Davis was required to stand in front of the court and demonstrate how to sore horses. This transcript includes the soring process and how it's done

                                        http://forthetnwalkinghorse.blogspot...ney-davis.html
                                        from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.

                                        Comment


                                        • I do underestand where Storm Warrior is coming from. After the request was made to keep the thread on topic, another post was made regarding the ASB's.

                                          HSUS comments are relative.

                                          The complexities are cultural, historical, educational and perception in addition to cruelty.

                                          HSUS manipulates this BL segment to further their own agenda. If they were truly concerned they would have workers in the field working directly with shows, USDA USEF etc.

                                          There are those who condone dog fighting, cock fighting, snake "trials" etc. It usually occurs in countries or COUNTIES where there is a lower educational level and a philosophy that since "pappy done it all his life" that makes it okay.

                                          There are riders (children, teens, women) who see nothing wrong with a little bit of pain for the gain. A similar philosphy base, although not relative, would be a gymnast or ice skater. They usually perform with a lot of pain. That is considered to be acceptable The difference? The individual CAN QUIT. The horse can not. One lady stated it was only for a show..no different, in her mind, than waxing..she cited FASHION should hurt. Hence her very high heels (which could cause permanent leg damage)

                                          To think that huffing and puffing is going to cure BL is simplistic. Exposure is required and ongoing demands that inspectors go to everyshow.

                                          Funny how HSUS does not volunteer to pay for extra show inspectors.

                                          HSUS will use a valid concern, i.e. Big Lick and will eventually manipulate it into every breed does something wrong and should be outlawed.

                                          Wayne Pacelle stated: One Generation and out. We had assumed he meant horses. NOPE> He actually meant people. As more and more are removed from agriculture and horses etc the more they are inclined to support views that horse ownership and use is BAD...

                                          By demanding anti cruelty laws already in existence are applied and by providing money for more show inspections (those who are guilty will remove themselves from those shows) a change can be made without assisting in the destruction of the horse industry as a whole.

                                          Leo
                                          Last edited by Fairfax; May. 18, 2012, 01:13 PM.
                                          The Elephant in the room

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